Smut and the Female Gaze

Hello my manga-loving friends. I’m putting together another panel for a convention, and this one is on shoujo and josei smut manga. What I’m looking for are your opinions of what are the male equivalents of panty shots and gravity-defying boobies for the female gaze. The male body is not sexualized in the same way as the female body - that’s why men don’t wear bikini tops. The points that appeal to women in men don’t necessarily correspond to what men look at in women.

So ladies, what does it for you? (Not to assume a binary world, anyone who appreciates the male form, please weigh in.) I already have a long list, but I don’t want it to be all my taste. I was surprised when a friend suggested ‘Adam’s apple’, because I don’t find that at all erotic, but the legions of Cumberbitches would disagree.

I’ll have to be able to find examples in smut manga. You don’t have to post pictures, but if you do have specific examples in mind - a scene in particular or a series in general - that would be great.

Also looking for a good title for the program. I was going to call it ‘50 Shades of Smut’ when I first proposed it 3 years ago, but I think that’s been played out by now.

I get more eye candy from reading seinen and shounen manga, tbh. Mostly because I really appreciate muscles. Especially nicely defined back muscles. As far as aesthetics go, I think shoujo and josei tend to focus more on the face and body language - better mediums for conveying emotion - which is why it's more difficult to pinpoint specific scenes meant for the female gaze. Though, it could be that I just never managed to find the right story before my interests switched to fanfiction.

Anyways, I recall that Masca contained a lot of the stuff I like. And introduced a lot of things I never thought I'd like, like demon dudes in long skirts with exposed nipple piercings. Page 13-ish of volume 1, chapter 6 provides a good example of a shoujo where men are actually drawn with some definition. Page 45-ish of volume 4, chapter 1 also has a nice sleeping-half-naked scene.

Evyione, by the same author as Masca, features a sexy merman. You can barely make it into the first chapter before you get a picture of him lying suggestively on a... couch? Or whatever equivalent merfolk use.

And that's about all I have for examples, sorry. I wish you luck on your panel!

Thanks Calamansi for your thoughts. Certainly shounen and especially shounen sports are the place to go for muscles. I once did a program called 'Shounen for Chicks' and I keep threatening to do 'Seinen for Ladies'. In my opinion the best looking men in manga are found in Yaoiland, but I think Smutville runs a close second!

I think you bring up a good point when you say that shoujo and josei are more focused on the face than the body. It makes sense, as they are more about relationships and emotion than story. I think different facial expressions can themselves be considered attractors of the female gaze. One example that I have so far is men who cry.

I will definitely check out Masca and Evyione. Thanks for the suggestions!

I prefer to read about men who are alphas: strong, powerful, confident, leaders, and it doesn't hurt to have a face that's good to look at.

I was watching Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood and I didn't think much of Colonel Mustang. Didn't like him all that much to be honest but there was a scene where he uses a lighter to ignite the female villain named Lust. I don't know what it was about that scene but I fell in love with him in an instant. Maybe it was the expression on his face, or the power he was yielding, but it changed how I looked at him from that point on wards.

You can see at what I mean by clicking here and fast forwarding to 10:15. Or you can watch the whole 12 minutes to see what leads him to that scene.

There is also Feng Shen Ji where there are nothing but alpha hotties through out the manhua.

Sadly there aren't any men I liked/remembered in shoujo or josei except the main lead in Cheese in the Trap.

I hope that helps

Last edited by gajjark at 4:18 pm, Oct 2 2015

Thanks for weighing in, gajjark.

We once had a thread on here called Best Josei HUNK. <3 The quality I listed as number one was "Confidence". It's not as easy to find a picture of, though, compared with something more concrete like "long eyelashes"! The lead in Midnight Secretary is a real alpha male of the type you describe.

I know exactly what you mean by Colonel Mustang. I was already enamored from the first series, but that scene, hoo boy. I must have watched that episode 5 times! BTW, did you know the voice actors for Mustang and Lust are married IRL?

Beautiful faced bishies and kind and gallant alpha guy characters would be my eye candy.
However, I feel like it's what the male characters actually do rather than what they look like that I find erotic. I can't comment on josei/shoujo etc., but good looking male characters who have rotten personalities are not eyecandy to me at all.

Hey scarletrhodelia!
I really like what you do, even though I've never seen it (still waiting!), so I thought I'd weigh in.

I don't enjoy shoujo/josei smut generally, but maybe my opinion would be of some use anyways. xD
One of the reasons for my lack of enjoyment is definitely the art style.
I find a lot of the men in shoujo/josei smut not manly enough. Their features are too soft for me.
Then there's the plot, or lack thereof.
The "circumstantial hotness" aspect, in which the characters' hotness is directly correlated to their actions.

For example, one my favorite guys in manga is Kenji from Eden (ENDO Hiroki).
Besides the physical aspect, I love how skilled he in close combat.
And the whole "loner/outcast" thing sure gets me going.

Another favorite is Marco from Ibara no Ou.

Men in shoujo/josei smut, besides being generally unattractive to me, are just boring.
They're either pushover businessmen or high schoolers.

And then, there's my problem with the female leads.
I've never had the urge to see/put myself in the female lead's role.
My interests are more voyeuristic in that regard. I like seeing how things develop, without trying to relate. I don't need to relate, I just need things to be interesting.

When things get down to sex, I often find pleasure in the whole act, rather than picturing myself being penetrated. If at all, I like to think that I'm the one doing the active fucking.
I also don't like virginal characters. All the coyness and inexperience aren't sexy to me in shoujo/josei smut (unlike in hentai, but that's a whole different matter).

The only smut mangaka I like is Yoshihara Yuki.
I like how she draws her guys with their mischievous eyes. And I like the female leads as well, who're just as horny and like to take the lead just as often, if not more. xD
And she can be quite creative with her plots, too.

But I guess my point is that I don't get off on shoujo/josei smut.
There's not enough sex, let alone explicit sex, for me to like it. I don't like relationship centered stories, and unless the author manages to come up with interesting situations, it's all too vanilla for me (both plot and sex-wise).

Last edited by NightSwan at 3:49 am, Oct 3 2015

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I haven't read shoujo or josei smut in a while, but I'd have to say I don't think the female gaze is drawn for in smut manga in the same way that the male gaze is drawn for in ecchi and hentai manga. Yes, women are attracted to different physical features of men, but I feel like josei and shoujo doesn't really focus on physical attraction for it's readers. Like you said, ecchi has panty shots and bouncy boobs. Meanwhile, smut manga has... hot faces? Maybe the occasional shot of abs? I remember seeing more nudity from the girls in smut than from the guys.

When I read smut, it was more about identifying with the female character rather than being physically attracted to the male character. I think the attractive qualities that the smut mangaka focus on in the male characters the personality and the characters" actions. And when it comes to the sex scenes, unlike hentai which focuses on the girl's body, in smut the focus is more on the relationship between the characters and how the characters make each other feel. But it has been a long time since I've read smut, so maybe there are some smut out there that do focus more on the physical aspects of the male. But I think to get a real sense of the female gaze, you might want to look at yaoi.

If your talking about pure eye candy, seinen can't be beat. The male body (muscles) can be amazingly beautiful and raw in seinen. Josei has more of a romantic view (on both sexes), which doesn't always scream "sexy".

As for what can get a females gaze, or gets us hot'n'bothered, the way a mangaka draws the males gaze, that being their eyes, can be damn sexy. The way a male looks at a female when that mood is right (in a hetero manga)... If that is drawn well, nothing else matters - I'm not even kidding.

In all visual forms, it is not uncommon to see the maker (mangaka in manga) focus more on the female form in sexual scenes. When that is reversed, it seems a bit odd (referencing Death Race 2 here, where the camera lingers on the male form, rather than the female, in basically all the sexual scenes - so very odd).

And since females are so different in what steals their gaze (especially since a penis is not that fantastic to look at, nor is a joke-strap or any male underwear), it's hard to present something that will appeal to all females. Men are a bit more primal than women are. Which reminds me, alpha males (common words used in this discussion so far) are just that, primal. The males primalness, that appeals to many females. But since a romance scene doesn't do well with a raw/primal-drawn male and a soft-drawn female (as they are normally portrayed) you have to pick one of the other.

And this leads me to the genres. Josei is for females, whereas seinen is for males (the genres general main audience), so for the female audience, we get the emotional sex scenes (aka what HER thoughts are), whereas the male audience will get a rougher sex scene (aka what is being done to HER). Both focus on the female, but in different ways.

So back to my main point, when it comes to what attracts the female gaze, it's not always the males, but can be the emotions in play. But since you are not asking not about sex scenes... also I should note, that general male body appreciation is sorely lacking in josei.

Smut and ecchi are actually very close to each other. One just plays more on the emotional side, whereas the other on the wet and dirty side. Basically if you can SEE the female is wet, it's ecchi, if you don't know, it's smut (obviously ignoring context/plot, only speaking about visuals here).

And now I'll actually hop back to your original question: the male equivalent of panty shots and gravity-defying boobies. There isn't one. But a tall male who has no shirt on, with well defined muscles, a chiseled jaw (or good bone structure), sexy eyes and good hair... mmmmmh.. I could look at that all day long.

Actually, my closest guess to the male equivalent would be; if they were wet (rain/glass of water to the face), an open collar (2-3 buttons undone), random out of context sports playing or kitten rescuing... It's hard to find male "panty shots". Even in yaoi, you don't really see the same type of sexualizations as ecchi/smut has, which is one place that should easily have them.

P.s About the adam's apple... that does absolutely nothing for me, whether in RL or manga. However there is a scene (can't remember from where) where a female licks some sweat off a male's adam's apple, and that was... well hot. But in general, it has little to no effect on me.

P.p.s Title suggestion. I'd find it hilarious if you just called it "the male equivalents of panty shots and gravity-defying boobs". If that was on a program pamphlet, I'd definitely go see it.

Just remembered, you are basically looking for female fan service (a bit like the anime Free). Male fan service is barely clad female. And the female fan service is...? Topless men, or malexmale-sexual-hitting, or even period set outfits, or men playing sports. Usually topless.

In other words, men get little to not clad females. Whereas women get topless (or unbuttoned tops) males. Odd how that works...

Last edited by lambchopsil at 6:02 pm, Oct 3 2015

I read Midnight Secretary so long ago that I hardly remember what he was like haha.


For real? That's pretty amazing.

Also, reading some of the comments made me realize that I would much rather see a male with no shirt or a shirt that's unbuttoned rather than a nude. A nude shot is just not as appealing.

I'm going to be the totally contrary opinion here: I freaking LOVE beautiful, androgynous men. <3 For what it's worth, I'm a heteroromantic ace with strong, detached sexual fantasies involving one or more men, or men in (generally) light femdom situations or female-led romances, for lack of a better term, where it's the female who takes the lead in the relationship.

I have definite S tendencies, and I guess because of that, I REALLY hate the so-called "alpha-male" thing. I like self-assured men, not dominant. On the other hand, I don't care for doormats or sycophants. What's attractive to me are men who are secure and confident but who like being taken care of or have otherwise submissive tendencies sexually/romantically. Like I said before, I love androgyny -- not too "feminine" or too "masculine" but somewhere right in the middle. One of my first fictional character crushes was on Joey/Jonouchi from Yugioh when I was in sixth grade. He's got the cute puppy look, has a tough side, but is also really vulnerable and dere-dere at times.

Personality is actually a big thing for me. I honestly don't read a lot of shoujo/josei smut for two reasons: 1. Female sexuality kind of weirds me out on its own, since I can't self-insert because I don't like sex, and I don't care to see the female body because I'm not attracted to it; and 2. Especially in the shorter series and oneshots, the guys usually don't have attractive personalities to me. Either they're too generic and bland or too gushy or too domineering or all of the above. xP

But! That's not what you're asking, is it? Visual fanservice! Go!

Personally, I'm a face and hair girl. Like I said, beauty is big with me, and the upper portions have the best of that imo. |D Abs are good. Cute backs and chests are, too. I'm not big into heavy musculature (like I said, androgyny), but a fair amount is fun. Like someone else mentioned, Free! is a great anime to consult about the female gaze. Butt-shots, ab-shots, and the occasional crotch-shot seem to be the female equivalent to boobs and panties, and Free! really plays it up. Also, rippling muscles and shirtlessness. The amount of fanservice in that show actually made me a little uncomfortable at times.

The only "sexy" (lul not rly) romance I've been into lately is unTouchable (Massstar), and what I really appreciate in that series is how the male lead is the one who is primarily objectified, usually in the female lead's imagine spots. He's usually shirtless in those scenes, but he's also usually shown in an inactive or more submissive pose (lying down, underneath the female lead, etc.). Again, maybe it's just because I'm a more dominant person, but I find that imagery extremely attractive. The scene in this chapter (you'll know the one ) is one that really gets me going. It helps that I really like both characters (and I can actually identify with the female lead for once!). So I guess for me, even more than physical characteristics, it comes down more to personality and dynamic. I've never been a fan of gratuitous fanservice (which is why Free! was quite often a turnoff), but as far as looking's concerned, you can never go wrong with a well-placed shirtless scene and all its toned glory. |D

Apologies if that wasn't very helpful. x.x But I figured I might as well at least weigh in with a less conventional opinion if you're looking for some contrast or variety!

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I think it's less of what they look like, because all male leads in shoujo/josei are the same basic set up, but what power they possess. The trope that tends to attract girls to shoujo is security, power, money. The male lead is usually the scion of some global monopoly, he succeeds in everything without trying, and has everything but the unremarkable female lead to somehow fix his brooding and disdainful nature. I believe that's what women want, to be the one who saves the man emotionally, to be special not for her looks but for just being her unremarkable self. In return, she gets the ultimate security of a genius male model with limitless money. You might want to watch this lecture at Google.

Thanks to everyone who weighed in! This has all been very helpful. I’ll be sure to check out as many of the specific title suggestions as I can.

Nirhtuc - “what they do”. I agree, their actions are more important to looks for the female gaze.

NightSwan - If you want to picture yourself in the aggressor role, then you need yaoi! You can be either in yaoi.
I’ll be spending a good bit of time on YOSHIHARA Yuki, one of my favorite mangaka.

KaoriNite - I agree that there often is more female nudity than male nudity in smut. I read one theory that the female gaze is reflected back on the woman, that she wants to see herself. I’m not sure I buy that.
Personalities, actions, relationships -- again, it’s what the characters do that is more attractive than their looks.

fovika - ”especially since a penis is not that fantastic to look at” This is what I always think when I hear complaints about censored yaoi.
“But a tall male who has no shirt on, with well defined muscles, a chiseled jaw (or good bone structure), sexy eyes and good hair... mmmmmh.. I could look at that all day long.” Oh yes.
Title suggestion - Maybe I should call it “Panty Shot and Bouncing Boobies-Free Zone”.

gajjark - Travis Willingham (Mustang) told us at a convention that the day he recorded that FMA scene, he went home and said to his wife (Laura Bailey) something like “Guess what I did today?” She said, “F*ck, you killed me!”

crazyboutcute - Contrary opinions are good!
“even more than physical characteristics, it comes down more to personality and dynamic” - I think we’re seeing a consensus here.
About Free!, I can assure you that I’ve done an in-depth study of it!

caozhi - “security, power, money” I might talk a little about the “Three Highs”, which are what Japanese women have traditionally been said to want in men - higher income, education, and taller.
"I believe that's what women want, to be the one who saves the man emotionally, to be special not for her looks but for just being her unremarkable self." The plot you describe is like a Gothic Romance. When I did my talk on josei manga, I drew parallels between Midnight Secretary and Jane Eyre.
Thanks for the link. It looks helpful; I’ll check it out!


Thanks again, this has been so helpful and instructive. I think what I can say for sure is that the female gaze is not uniform. I think another thing I’ve arrived at, is that for women what is attractive is not the physical features themselves, but how emotion and personality are reflected in them. Wet hair - vulnerability. Muscular - he’s strong and he can protect you. Etc.

I do these presentations at Pittsburgh area conventions: Tekko, Sangawa, and Kurokiiro. (Some people put their talks on You Tube, but I’m not yet brave enough to do that.) I’m preparing this one for Sangawa in December this year (pending acceptance). So if anyone happens to be be at one of these cons, be sure to say hello!