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Post #674708 - Reply to (#674700) by residentgrigo
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Bwaaah!
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2:15 pm, Dec 12 2015
Posts: 838


Sin's past is definitely one of those stories fans needed brain bleach for. That can actually be blamed on editorial meddling also since it was originally supposed to have been Parker getting her pregnant. Marvel didn't want Spiderman to age so that was why Osborn became the babies' daddy.

Editorial mandate may be the cause of the bad writing for OMD but bad writing is still bad writing. As for whether what came after was good, that is a matter of opinion. I personally see Carlie Cooper as an abominable creators pet. Also, besides bringing Harry back to life and tossing women at Petey randomly, I don't see how any of the stories could not have been done while Parker was still married.

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3:41 pm, Dec 12 2015
Posts: 128


Sexual objectification, simply because it's the most common of this kind of tropes. 95% of manga that could otherwise be decent are ruined to shit by the author's blatant inability, or unwillingness, to write sensible female characters.

Post #674710 - Reply to (#674708) by drunkguy
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Seinen is RIGHT
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4:03 pm, Dec 12 2015
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2/3 of the comics, beginning with One More Day, were decent to great and i read them all. Superior Spider-Man (9/10) is the best amongst them and the whole thing is arguably Spidy´s (616 universe) most stable line since the 80s. 98% of the stories certainly didn´t need the "reboot" and none of Peter´s love interests worked too but the middle of Cooper´s arc was utterly fine. Peter and certainly MJ (she is now in Iron Man) have also 100% been de-evaluated but the comic still manged to march on while holding on to great sales and an ultimately positive reception. The stories also flow pretty well into each other and enough of the spin-offs work on top. OMD itself even managed to have a few good scenes in it but Sins Past made me reconsider the concept of book burning.
Sins Past truly came form a bad idea by JMS that then got twisted beyond comprehension so it can be chalked up to bad writing but OMD was 100% forced on him.
He even considered pulling an Alan Moore as he nearly took his name of the book! Consider it the Springtime for Hitler of his career and JMS´s writing also never truly recovered as he then wrote some of the worst Superman comics in a decade. You know? The ones which have a subplot based on a bad Kevin Smith joke about shotgun blasting super-sperm (again?!?). The ones where his first love is a down on her luck whore sad . Take it to the my DC vs Marvel thread if you want to go on. We could go over this little "after school" gem where Peter was raped as a kid by his babysitter Skip! Batman: Night Cries it wasn´t and how often was Nighwing raped... Why do i like comics again?

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Post #674711
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4:44 pm, Dec 12 2015
Posts: 144


Censorship of offensive material pisses me off the most in manga.

Post #674712 - Reply to (#674711) by SinsI
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5:26 pm, Dec 12 2015
Posts: 91


Quote from SinsI
Censorship of offensive material pisses me off the most in manga.

This.

Censorship of any kind (bar illegal material) is unacceptable.

Post #674713 - Reply to (#674698) by Reyalsdog
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5:32 pm, Dec 12 2015
Posts: 6


It's not that simple. In my case, some topics might or might not piss me off, even after reading the already presented tags/categories.The matter is how they are presented under what aspects.
For example, a manga is tagged as rape, if I don't read it how would I know if the author glorify it (which really pisses me off), or touch the subject with all those psychological aspects, how the victim suffers, that it is traumatic etc. pp. which I would read. Even if it's tagged as drama or psychological, or even if there's a description, I still wouldn't know how the story ends. That's the point of reading.


Post #674715 - Reply to (#674710) by residentgrigo
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6:03 pm, Dec 12 2015
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I'm kind of surprised he didn't do well on Supes. It makes me glad I never really followed the title.

Actually, JMS was great in his Thor run that came after OMD. His interpretation of the God of Thunder led to some of the best comics I have ever read. In contrast, seeing the original Thor become a shirtless alcoholic one armed hobo with a rope belt who isn't even allowed to be called by his first name anymore in favor of Jane Foster "Mary Sue" Thordis has been some of the absolute worst.

Now that I think about it, I agree with Sinsi. What does offend me is censorship. If that was listed, it probably would have captured +90% of the votes.

Post #674717 - Reply to (#674712) by HumanoidInterface
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7:36 pm, Dec 12 2015
Posts: 79


What is and isn't legal changes with time and place. Artwork/literature will remain with us throughout the ages. Even if something is illegal we still should be able to talk about it and portray it in creative works. That's what freedom of speech/expression is all about.

So yeah, censorship of offensive elements and themes is far worse than those elements themselves. And this includes self-censorship due to direct or indirect pressure.

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7:58 pm, Dec 12 2015
Posts: 2


Pedophilia is a form of sexual attraction.
Child abuse is the actual act of abusing a child, whether physically, mentally, or sexually.

It pisses me off most that so many people are voting for the predisposition of pedophilia over the actual action of child abuse.

Post #674720
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8:52 pm, Dec 12 2015
Posts: 208


Interesting poll! I voted for the last option, because I think all of these undesirable elements could be key to character and story development. The only things that really piss me off is when characters don't look their age AT ALL (e.g. loli and shota types), oversized body parts, and PWP (no story, only hentai from beginning to end). laugh

Post #674721 - Reply to (#674684) by KaoriNite
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8:56 pm, Dec 12 2015
Posts: 208


As a yaoi fan, I totally agree! I'm even okay with it if the victim and perpetrator fall in love somehow later on, but not when there's no damage shown in between the action and the romance, and the victim just ignores the crime or forgives the rapist straight away and they skip off together into the sunset! no

Post #674739
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7:05 am, Dec 13 2015
Posts: 66


it really depend on how author played the card, presentation and context.
I can't really say those material makes me upset inside manga. They are fiction after all.
maybe pedophilia relationship, but still technically a 100 years vampire and a 16-18 years old girl is also a form of one.
I guess as long as their appearance's the same age it's okay? *shrug* I will just say it's back to how it's used by author.

I am actually more upset with fan-service than offensive material . . . those ruin a lot of story.



Last edited by caitnap at 7:11 am, Dec 13 2015

Post #674742
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8:19 am, Dec 13 2015
Posts: 402


This is not a well thought out question.

If a character in a manga holds questionable views or engages in questionable activities, that alone isn't sufficient for a normal reader to get pissed about it. It comes down to mangaka's own attitude toward that. If he glorifies it, it's one thing. If it's a device he uses to show character flaws, then it's a completely different matter.

Take incest or pedophilia for example. Does the author depict them for added tragedy, or is it simply a fetish? Do you get pissed off because you don't want to be reminded of these things that happen in real life, or do you get pissed off because you're against fetishizing them? What if you're pissed off about one situation, but not the other, what are you supposed to select then?

Or take political hate. Are you offended by political views of some character? Then you're crazy and can't tell fiction from reality apart. But if you're offended by political views of the author that he tries to push onto his readers, then you're not really pissed about a manga, you're pissed about someone in the real world.

Thus, many of the presented options are highly ambiguous.

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Post #674745 - Reply to (#674687) by train93
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8:41 am, Dec 13 2015
Posts: 432


Quote from train93
Especially when they try to show interactions between a grown-up and a kid as fluffy love, it makes me cringe. Even worse when the grown-up is a teacher or care-taker.

Oh, you mean like Clamp likes to do?
I'm re-reading Card Captor Sakura. A good manga, generally, but...

Post #674747 - Reply to (#674742) by cmertb
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10:36 am, Dec 13 2015
Posts: 143


Yeah... this question runs into the same kind of issue as the last poll, where most of the time it comes down to how well it's pulled off. When I originally thought up the question, I had the content itself - not story quality - in mind, because one's perception of a story's readability can largely be influenced by their sensitivity to certain material.

Take Berserk for example. Was addicted to it at first, but the amount of rape later on made me drop the series and never want to return. I once made the mistake of describing the series as being "too rapey" to a fan, and needless to say was subject to a whole essay about how it's supposed to serve as some sort of depreciating commentary on humanity, to show how humans and monsters desire the same horrible things, etc., etc. Didn't matter to me. The scenes made my stomach churn.

I suppose another way to phrase the question would be, "Which sort of offensive material has most often caused you to drop a manga/ anime?" in order to avoid the whole situation craziness, but that creates another issue. Sexual objectification has caused me to drop more series, but that's simply because it shows up more in fiction. It's actually more stressful for me to read scenes that depict sexual violence, racism, child abuse, homophobia or incest. And if I suspect the author themself is guilty of holding such prejudices, or glorifies the content, then I'm dropping the series in a heartbeat.

So, although the nature of the poll is ambiguous thanks to its many interpretations, I still think results will give a decent idea of the kind of content the MU community is more sensitive to. Though, from the results so far, most of us are fairly apathetic. bigrazz

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