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Japan Rewrites History?

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Rob1988
Post #206597 - Reply to (#206596) by Tachu
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Sinon
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2:46 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 914


Quote from Tachu
Quote from Rob1988
Quote from Tachu
The answer is yes, Japan has alot of stuff that they'd rather cover up to make them look good or better, its like how nazi's deny that the holocaust never happened, truely, Ignorance is bliss.

Nazi's where? As in EU you will get locked up for that =o


>3> after speculation i edited it to Germany, its almsot 1 in the morning... gimme a break XD

That will definitely get you locked up, in Germany they have the strictest laws about Holocaust denial...

Tachu
Post #206600
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That mecha guy
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2:50 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 481


but im not in germany XD well im off i got things to do tomorrow... and friday... and saturday... and sunday... sigh ill be getting no sleep

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bedob
Post #206601 - Reply to (#206596) by Tachu
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Thirsty Dog
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2:50 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 1027


Quote from Tachu
Quote from Rob1988
Quote from Tachu
The answer is yes, Japan has alot of stuff that they'd rather cover up to make them look good or better, its like how nazi's deny that the holocaust never happened, truely, Ignorance is bliss.

Nazi's where? As in EU you will get locked up for that =o


>3> after speculation i edited it to Germany, its almsot 1 in the morning... gimme a break XD


all the german people i know are very conscious about the holocaust and crimes committed in the ww2...i would certainly not say they are ignorant...

they feel remorse and are somewhat historically burdened...

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Catriona
Post #206619
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Crazed stalker
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4:23 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 75


I felt I wanted to say something in this even though I'm not in any way privy to what goes on in Japan and an eventual rewriting of the history. I am however interested in the dark side of history, the things that aren't spoken about out loud, and I wrote my major thesis during my Museology studies on that subject (although it was focused on WWII and controversial cultural heritages in Europe).

First of all, bluegreenangel, I'm sorry but I have to ask you based off what I've read in your posts so far: Do you REALLY want to know what happened or are you simply looking for ways to confirm your own opinions and beliefs about what happened?
Quote
heh serves them right... they reap what they sow.... its kind of what they did to korean and chinese civilians..... use them for lab experiments, and their excuse was " we underestimated the pain they were feeling, we were sure we put pain killers or somewhat for them "... youre right, people DO remember what others did but what THEY THEMSELVES didnt... japan has no right to say anything about hiroshima bombing, because japan brought it upon themselves, they started the war, they know it, the other guys know it, i know it, you know it, and we all know it.....
[reply from bluegreenangel regarding the fact that people are still dying from cancer caused by nuclear radiation in Japan. (Catriona's note)]

No matter the atrocities committed in the past, people living today (people who might not have been involved or even knew about the atrocities their country committed) should not have to suffer for it. If so, do you also think the everyday German should suffer from God knows what simply because some people in the past persecuted and killed other people during the WWII?

On a more general note regarding rewriting of history. Most countries do that or simply omit things from their history books. I doubt there is a single country in the world which hasn't at one point or another decided to rewrite, omit or flatly deny one or other event from their past. My country, Sweden, likes to go out with the fact that Sweden's such a neutral country which had practically no part at all in the WWII. However, most often, in the general school history book, the fact that Sweden turned a blind eye to what happened around them and allowed the Nazis to pass more or less freely through the country on their way to Norway and so on is either mentioned in perhaps a single side note that practically no one notices, or completely omitted. Also, they talk very silently about the fact that the Kaiser Wilhelm-institute (sp?) in Germany took inspiration regarding racial hygiene and eugenics from an institute here in Sweden (The National Institute for Race Biology, unsure of the correct name) that is considered to be one of the world's first such institutes.

So, in conclusion, I find it more unlikely that there's a country in the world who are completely truthful in their history books (even regarding the things they've done) than that history is frequently rewritten, altered or omitted. One always has to remember that there will always be at least two sides of everything and that each side will always try to make the scale tip in its favour. Not all Germans (even among the Nazis during WWII) were black-hearted, evil people who sincerely wished to eradicate Jews, homosexuals and so on. The US isn't through and through a country as great as its politicians and historians want people to believe (Even though there's a claim the US went into Iraq to "liberate" the people from Saddam's despotic rule or whatever the official explanation is, I tend to believe that there's always underlying political and economical motives), Sweden's not such a nice, innocent and neutral country as we claim to be. And so on through all the countries in the world.

There are skeletons in every closet and dust hiding under every mat or in every corner in every country. In many ways I believe it's the people's duty to view history with a critical and sceptical eye and to remember that history is written by humans. No text or story can ever be completely unbiased. Or as Martin Jay wrote on page 107 in the book Probing the limits of representation- Nazism and the "final solution":

Quote
”[…]historical phenomena can never be made absolutely safe from either oblivion or distortion. No memory can ever survive the death of its original holder without the collective will to keep it alive.”


Last edited by Catriona at 5:07 pm, Sep 24

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MizuiroMegami
Post #206628
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4:49 pm, Sep 24 2008
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That was such a lucid and thought out argument XD
Wow i didn't know about Sweden ><
You're right about the US---.....we went there to "liberate people" ..yeah right....it's all crap that the government feeds us <.<

[btw is ur real name Catriona?...mine is Caterina ^^ <---sorry for randomness dead]

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Catriona
Post #206640
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5:06 pm, Sep 24 2008
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Thank you =). I tend to write very long posts when on this subject. It's something that interests me greatly. I find it nice that such a subject is discussed here and feel a great deal of anticipation to see where this thread might go. I think it's something that ought to be discussed, not only the question asked by the original thread-maker but also the more general issues of it. Too much is blotted over or swept under the carpet as it is. If more people raise the question about the truth behind history I think it can only lead to a better future. The more we talk about the dark sides of history the less is the risk those acts will be repeated and happen again.

(My real name is Catrine, btw. I chose the Celtic variation of the name for my screen name.)

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brunzwickw
Post #206655 - Reply to (#206073) by reid1
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5:48 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 39


Quote from reid1
Quote from brunzwickw
Quote from Chaoswind
>_>

We could arge all day of who was right and who was wrong... Japan did horrible things to Korean's and Chinese, and also USA over did it a bit with the booms at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

In history, this is a common practice, to delete certain BAD things to keep the name of someone/something clean

Happens to Religion and Country governments, with power, there is always Abuse of power and after said abuse there is always cover ups and lies


I doubt it, the US has led freedom of the press protect its freedom rather than the censored culture in Japan. And Hiroshima and Nagasaki were probably the most merciful things US did to end the war. Otherwise, US would have had to invade Japan to get the stubborn emperor to bow down. Unconditional surrender were perfectly out of the question before the bombs were dropped. If US were to have had to invade Japan along with Russia, France, and England, Japan would not be close to Japan today. The complains about the bombs were about as legitimate objectively as complaining about losing the war to begin with.


That's totally false. From January '45 Japan started negotiating and the negotiating progressed very forwardly after that US bombed Tokyo in Mars '45 (and more than 100.000 people died). Japan was already using students as Kamikaze so they didn't have the sources to fight back anymore.
US just wanted to give a strong signal against Russia, that's the real reason about the bombs.
In fact Russia DID declare war against Japan AFTER the Hiroshima bomb (2 days later).

And the complain is not about the bombs themselves, it's about the fact that US experimented nuclear weapons for the first time without knowing their real effects and people are still dying for cancer over there.

Buddy, read my quote, I said unconditional surrender. Japan may have started negotiating, but the terms of the allies at Potsdam was unconditional surrender, and Japan had to accept it just like Germany. The fact taht they were using kamikaze showed how stubburn they were to fight surrender. Remember, its true the US dropped the bomb as a test, but it was also because of Japan's refusal of unconditional surrender. Without the bomb, would UNCONDITIONAL Surrender (it wasnt just US, truman, stalin, and churchill all consented on that in Potsdam) have been settled with less deaths, or even less civilian deaths?
ED: I'll admit I'm biased on this one

Bintowe
Post #206665
Member

6:26 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 6


Lets not talk about the whole Iraq thing, this is a history thread...who knows what we'll know ten years from now about the whole thing;)

And as for Japan being an evil country...well, yes and no. I've said it before, but the Japanese were and still are very xenophobic. Furthermore, they've a history of bad blood, if you'll do a search on their relations. It's likely that the Japanese soldiers were brainwashed into thinking that the Chinese were less than human, as well. And, perhaps most importantly, human beings, as a whole, are social creatures who have a tendency to want to follow. Thus creating a significant problem, especially for the military...people will do things just following the crowd or orders that they would NEVER do otherwise. For examples in history, look to things like the witch-hunts in Europe, or massacres that have been carried out by the military...many who participate say they were just following orders.

And I personally believe we should invade the Russians>>

Edit: And about the bombs...Truman had to make a decision, as well. Do I use this device, that will kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, or do I send more American soldiers to die?

Oh, and the Russians had not actually declared war on Japan yet...Truman also had to consider that Russia had a tendency to wage opportunistic war, where you basically get involved because you want control. Chances are, if we had done it conventionally, we'd have lost hundreds of thousands of troops, and the Soviets would have invaded someone else.

EvilTsuna
Post #206674
Member

6:59 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 11


about japan rewrites history yes they did at some history books never saw the news?

this is a quote from someone important don't know his name
Quote
"Only a country that respects history, takes responsibility for history and wins the confidence of the people in Asia."

thats true you know...it's not for asia only but you know what the quote means.
japan just can't accept the facts maybe because of pride and honor?




Last edited by EvilTsuna at 7:07 pm, Sep 24

bluegreenangel
Post #206683 - Reply to (#206674) by EvilTsuna
Member

7:11 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 362


Quote from EvilTsuna
about japan rewrites history yes they did at some history books never saw the news?

this is a quote from someone important don't know his name
Quote
"Only a country that respects history, takes responsibility for history and wins the confidence of the people in Asia."

thats true you know...it's not for asia only but you know what the quote means.
japan just can't accept the facts maybe because of pride and honor?




yes i agree with you in a certain way
i dont call it pride and honor, i call it arrogance, egoistic, self- centered, stubborn, obstinate, and most definitely ignorant...

japanese people are good to their people, i do respect that in a limited way, but to other non-japanese people, u can forget about that, even now

Please! stop double posting

-Thezombieking


Last edited by thezombieking at 7:16 pm, Sep 24

EvilTsuna
Post #206697 - Reply to (#206683) by bluegreenangel
Member

7:35 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 11


Quote from bluegreenangel
Quote from EvilTsuna
about japan rewrites history yes they did at some history books never saw the news?

this is a quote from someone important don't know his name
Quote
"Only a country that respects history, takes responsibility for history and wins the confidence of the people in Asia."

thats true you know...it's not for asia only but you know what the quote means.
japan just can't accept the facts maybe because of pride and honor?




japanese people are good to their people, i do respect that in a limited way, but to other non-japanese people, u can forget about that, even now

Please! stop double posting

-Thezombieking

well ofcourse japanese are good to THEIR people but how about us?
we don't deserve it?

btw i may misunderstood what you mean so sorry if you mean something else.

Burningdragon
Post #206701
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7:48 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 214


The thing that gets me about all this is that they are so openly changeing the history books. Doesn't anyone within the country have a problem with this, you would think there would be people protesting it or something, if the USA government tried something so obvious like that we would be all over them.

Spectat0r
Post #206705
Member

7:58 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 3


Japan killed over 23 million civilians in China, Phillipeans, India, korea. This was 3 times more than Hitler killed during the entire WW2. Japan also experimented on the chinese raped hundreds of thousands of women and did stuff that makes the holocaust deathcamps look relatively tame in comparison. The reason nobody knows about this is the USA in exchange for toplevel biological warfare information never perscecuted all of the people involved though we did the same for the nazi's but atleast in germany we held trials that convicted thousands of people not just a few like in Japan. I mean even the PoW's suffered there are accounts of cannabalism of Indian POW's and torture/beheadings of American POW's. Japan today doesnt read about anyof this.. Also the reason for the nuclear bombs was a three fold reasoning. We were running out of military targets in japan ( do to conventional bombing) and Japan refused to surrender early predictions of a Mainland conventional landing came to about 1-1.5million US soldiers killed and 15-40million Japanese soldiers and mainly civilians. The japanese civilians were taught to defend house and home with knifes sharpened bamboo and rocks if needed. The nuclear bombs saved many potential lives even though it was a horrible experience it was needed at the time to show the japanese government we didnt acually need to invade to cause tremendous loss of life ( they didnt know we only had those 2 bombs but 4 more where acually on the way ready in 3 months time). This stuff should be taught in schools especially the part about the massacre of chinese. Pearl harbor didnt have much to do with oil at all we embargoed japan just like we did to germany yet germany didnt do a cowardly sneak attack on us. Japan wanted to rule the world and they worshipped their emperor as a living god oil had nothing to do with their plans.

TofuQueen
Post #206707 - Reply to (#206701) by Burningdragon
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Crazy Cat Lady
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7:59 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 1822


Quote from Burningdragon
The thing that gets me about all this is that they are so openly changeing the history books. Doesn't anyone within the country have a problem with this, you would think there would be people protesting it or something, if the USA government tried something so obvious like that we would be all over them.

Well the US has people of so many different heritages that if books are blatantly changed to, for example, gloss over/omit wrongs done against a certain group of people, chances are pretty high that a member of that group will see it and protest.

Japan, on the other hand, is much MUCH more homogeneous so chances are lower that a member of the group who is being slighted will actually read the book & protest.

Not the *only* reason, but I do think that's part of it.

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MizuiroMegami
Post #206710 - Reply to (#206705) by Spectat0r
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8:06 pm, Sep 24 2008
Posts: 180


Quote from Spectat0r
Pearl harbor didnt have much to do with oil at all we embargoed japan just like we did to germany yet germany didnt do a cowardly sneak attack on us. Japan wanted to rule the world and they worshipped their emperor as a living god oil had nothing to do with their plans.


Yeah it was a "sneak" attack...did you read the previous posts?

Btw now that we bombed them they "worship" us, and b/c of that we re-wrote their constitution; and now they have no army protecting them. yeah...that's sooo fair -_-
-----
So they committed all those crimes; my mom's side of the family is filipino, and they have no problem with the japanese...they look forward. just because one person wanted to blow someone up or take over a country shouldn't mean that all citizens should be persecuted ><

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