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abt the ending (spoiler warning)

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strayed
Post #273758 - Reply to (#273756) by dark mage
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The Beast
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4:28 pm, Apr 6 2009
Posts: 134


Quote from dark mage
Sorry about that I meant misuzu. I just went back and corrected my last post. Its just like what you said it everyone have their own point of view but I can clearly back up my point of view with logic and no matter how I think about it Toujo just didn't have enough moments like that with Manaka to be his special girl except that she shared the same dreams as him. I think she was much more compatible with Amachi


well, i have no comment about that smile
i don't want to ruin your opinion, and i don't want to ruin other people's opinion either.
so i don't feel like discussing about which girl is the best for him.

i already saw this everywhere...
the more aya fans ranting about aya or/and saying bad stuffs about tsukasa, the more tsukasa fans would hate aya.
and so
the more tsukasa fans ranting about tsukasa or/and saying bad stuffs about aya, the more aya fans would hate tsukasa.

like i said before, topic like that only make people hate each others. smile

*edit:
i also edited my last post to reply to ur post smile








Last edited by strayed at 4:38 pm, Apr 6

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tazman0208
Post #273759 - Reply to (#273756) by dark mage
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4:29 pm, Apr 6 2009
Posts: 163


Quote from dark mage
Sorry about that I meant misuzu. I just went back and corrected my last post. Its just like what you said it everyone have their own point of view but I can clearly back up my point of view with logic and no matter how I think about it Toujo just didn't have enough moments like that with Manaka to be his special girl except that she shared the same dreams as him. I think she was much more compatible with Amachi


I would have easily been an Aya fan if not for her personality. The same goes for Manaka, if he and Aya had confessed to each other earlier on they would have ended up together. I mean even fate wanted them to be together ( Aya matched Manaka's number (school festival) and is in fact the perfect person for him) but because of their personalities they were unable to take that extra step until it was too late and Manaka had decided by then to be faithful to Nishino.

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dark mage
Post #273761 - Reply to (#263658) by dark mage
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4:46 pm, Apr 6 2009
Posts: 505


@ Strayed dude no one is hating anyone here we we are just having fun arguing amongst ourselves about what could have been and what has come to pass. Although I am a Tsukasa fan I dont necessarily hate Aya, in fact I admit that she is a wonderful girl and maybe fated to be with Manaka but didnt take the right steps at the right time and didnt have much to discuss him except besides movies. While Tsukasa on the other hand worked hard to change fate itself and made her own luck by doing the right things at the right time.

Quote from dark mage
I personally think Nishino was the best choice for Manaka even though I do feel sorry for Toujo. I think what Nishino and Manaka had a much better chemistry and the reasons are - given the circumstance with Manaka and Toujo, that Nishino was the right choice for her perseverence. However, for me, even if Toujo gave Junpei some indication that she liked him but she never clearly showed her affections and in this regard is just the same as Manaka in nature;i.e Aya and Manaka were too alike to be perfectly compatible. I still think Nishino is the best, for personal reasons, of course. But for me, the girl as discribed in Nishino's character is almost ideal for Manaka as she brings out the best in him. Its an insult to Nishino to say that Manaka only chose her because she turns him on which is totally wrong as both Satsuki and Aya were sexier than her. Its also wrong to say that there wasn't enough bonding between Nishino and Junpei and the author just decided on a poll but I think the author kept dropping hints that Nishino was perfect for Manaka, throughout the whole manga. Why does Aya have to be the one to end up with Manaka because they share the same dreams? It gets boring after a while to talk about the same thing again and again. In fact if you will notice, the only date that Aya and Junpei went out on, they had didn't know what to talk about, so they talked about movies, movies and more movies. This is not very healthy as they were just attracted towards each other by having the same dream while Nishino knew about Junpei's daily life far more than Aya ever did and her depth of perception of Junpei's mood changes were far better than Aya. People having the same dreams make good partners at work but as a person you want to stay your whole life with it gets boring after a while and your vision of the world becomes narrow. I am not saying that Aya isn't a nice girl, she is a very beautiful, intelligent and capable girl, but she is just not right for Junpei as a girlfriend. Show me one instant where Aya wanted to know about Junpei's day to day life or what was bothering him, while Nishino always seemed to know about Manaka's mood swings and did her best to pick him up and set him straight. But if it was Aya, she would have just been sucked into Junpei's mood swings and go along with the flow, agreeing with whatever Junpei said, dragged into his depression, instead of picking him up and setting him straight.

To be in a stable and good relationship, it is essential to have someone who not only appreciate your good points but are also prepared to point out your mistakes and povide you the courage to deal with them and each second you spend with them, seems better and more exciting than the moment before and very few dull moments like running out of topics to talk about and things to do. I mean how much can you talk about only movies. In this manga, all of Junpei's exciting and daring moments have all been with Nishino from the beginning to the end, having fun dates, sneaking a date on their school trip, taking a trip with just the two of them, visiting each other's house, having proper birthday celebrations, giving proper gifts to each other, sharing proper kisses with each other and getting into a fight for the girl you love. Show me one exciting instant like that with Toujo and Manaka except the one where they spent a night at the cottage stuck in a storm but it wasn't fun, just awkward while the time when Tsukasa and Manaka spent a night, it was exciting and fun due to Tsukasa's playful nature like choking Junpei in the morning by blocking his nose and stuff, which didn't let the situation become too awkward. Even Junpei's gifts to Aya were, DVDs. In short Aya and Junpei's relation were within a small world set within the boundary of the same dream and nothing more while the relationship between Tsukasa and Junpei encompassed a much wider horizon as Nishino made Junpei experience the things in real life that he thought only happened in movies. Also they opened their hearts out to each other which is the very basic of a healthy and recipocrative relationship. Sometimes you want to be most with the person that you don't see very often as their absence makes you appreciate their worth even more and the time spent after you finally see each other, all the more precious and more enjoyable. Such was the case of Junpei and Nishino as they went to different schools and they tried to keep in contact while calling up each other on the phone and catching up on the more interesting activities of the day. This is something that Nishino always did and Aya never got around to doing. Nishino always tried her best to show Manaka that even though He was out of her sight doesn't mean he was out of her mind and heart. By contrast, Aya frequently ran away from her problems and sometimes even gave Junpei the cold shoulder which confused Junpei about her feelings towards him and always left him wondering.

Anyways, the reasons, where I think Nishino made a bigger impact and how she truly bonded with MJunpei, I tried my best to describe below and hope people will think a bit better of the author for choosing her. So here it goes -

First, as already meantioned, she was loyal and dedicated to their relationship.

Second, she was attentive to Junpei's needs and moods (even when he himself was not).

Third, she wasn't afraid to talk about potential mixups (think v.9 after Junpei thought she was hugging the pasty guy). If it was Toujo, that would've been the end for them.

Fourth, she had the right mix of aggressiveness/initiative and vulnerability (the 3-day "my own personal Junpei" trip).

Fifth, she did things for Junpei's benefit without seeking recognition (first valentine's chocolate, breaking up with Junpei in the first place, which was a seriously mature move, can you see Satsuki doing that, despite whatever Junpei felt like?).

Sixth, she was both cute (Toujo) and sexy (Satsuki).

Seventh, she changed for junpei.

Eighth, she had a more mature understanding of love, in that she tried to support Junpei without ever 1) trying to force him to follow her, or 2) trying to force herself to follow him. My final conclusion, Nishino was both the most realistic of the girls (v.18 where Nishino was insecure about her figure as compared to the other girls) 3) Cleaning up his room when Manaka was out, bringing him cookies, cakes and little things like that, that grew into something big.4) Taking him out for a walk by the seaside in order to make him relax when Junpei was overworking himself with his studies. I could refer to so many other moments which, litle by little, solidified my decision for Nishino (I love the confession on the pull-up bar in v.16).


Showed her concern for Manaka's happiness again, when she returns to the building in order to retrieve his prized possession, his camera, by risking her own life. I dont see either Toujo or Satsuki do that, especially when both of them were there but it was only Nishino who noticed the camera was missing and knew how much it would hurt both Manaka and his dreams if the video camera was lost.

Ninth, Manaka and Nishino talked about many various topics other than just talking about movies and novels, because all Manaka and Toujo talked about were movies and novels, they never really had a normal conversation and have fun dates like Nishino and Junpei.

Tenth, its not true that Manaka chose Nishino because of the misunderstanding about Toujo having a boyfriend as Manaka himself said to Sotomura, when Sotomura asked Manaka if his reason for choosing Nishino was based on Toujo having a boyfriend, but Manaka said that he chose Nishino because of her qualities and not because of Toujo having a boyfriend. Manaka genuinly started to fall for Nishino during their talks when they returned from work, when Nishino supported him whenever he was stressed about his exams but the part where they really got close was, in that 3-day trip. This is because Nishino showed Junpei her past and opened her heart to him. Nishino also got really close with Manaka's family.

Tsukasa didn't just want to follow Manaka in his dreams but wanted to be a part of it like how she wanted Manaka to be a part in her dreams by always making him the first person to try out her new pastries and if they were good enough for other people. Only when Manaka approved she was relieved and decided to become a pastry chef. By doing this,Tsukasa expertly showed that two people with different dreams can actually be a part of each other's dreams and help each other out and explore and discover new things together, instead of just watching from the sidelines. YOU DON'T NECESSARILY NEED TO HAVE THE SAME DREAM TO BE SUCESSFUL IN BOTH RELATIONSHIP AND CAREER.

Nishino clearly stated when Junpei first impressed her when he stood up for his friend and had to run laps, how she was impressed with Manaka seeing through outer appearences and not sucking up to people in order to flatter them unless it was the truth. How much he struck her by so determinedly followed his dreams that she set about finding her own dream.

Tsukasa always made sure to show her affections for Manaka but never exactly smothered him with affections like Satsuki. She was always clear about her own feelings and was careful enough not to show them so as not trouble Manaka when she felt that her presence in Manaka's heart wasn't enough to challange Aya's presence but the moment she thought that she had slowly made her way back into his heart, from then on she took every oppurtunity to show her affections but was always careful to not be overbearing or annoying


Eleventh, Nishino told him to depend on her like she depended on him when feeling troubled or sad.

Lastly she is a much more fun girl to be with and she was the only girl that pointed out Manaka's faults and also his good points.

About their reunion, I dont think they will break up anytime soon because if their feelings were strong enough to carry them through a time span of 4 years and still love each other in the same way I dont see what could break them apart because its no more a highschool love and they are both alot more mature and Junpei is no longer indecisive.

As for Toujo, she has moved on with her life and from the reunion it seemed like she doesnt have any sort of lingering feelings for Manaka anymore and she seemed to have completely abandoned her introverted personality. I just want to know if she had met anyone that she loved in that time span as she didnt even seem like she was troubled by Manaka's presence.

However, I feel bad for Satsuki as she still seemed to have feelings for Manaka and changed herself to attract his attention. She for me was a really unfortunate girl and deserved much better. If she had played her cards right instead of always being agressive, I believe she would have had a better chance

As for Nishino what I wanted to know is, if she managed to fulfill her dreams of becoming a succesfull pastry chef, as the author didnt say anything about her achievements. But I loved the part when Manaka ran up the stairs and swept Nishino off her feet.




strayed
Post #273764
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The Beast
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5:14 pm, Apr 6 2009
Posts: 134


@dark mage:
no i didn't say it was you...
i meant, some fans hating each others' faction because of something like that, that's all.
whereas, they used to like all the characters before.
because, a topic like that can easily causing a misunderstanding.



Last edited by strayed at 5:19 pm, Apr 6

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Veltwolfsleer
Post #273767
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shinigami
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6:42 pm, Apr 6 2009
Posts: 899


wow dark mage that's the longest quote I've read on this site *keyword I've read*.

Seriously guys argueing is fun and all but this series has 66 votes as a 1/10. that's bullshit, to demote a really good series because something you didnt like happened; thats basically the same as people who make fun of people who read manga

P.S.
i wanted to say that for a long time 2 years in fact but i only got around to it now

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dark mage
Post #273771
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7:21 pm, Apr 6 2009
Posts: 505


Very well said I would've still liked the manga even if it was Aya who ended up with Manaka even though I am a Tsukasa fan because I feel both girls were wonderful and the proof is that both these 2 characters have a huge number of fans. Like I still gave Suzuka a good rating even though I liked Honoka better because it was an intriguing read no matter who ended up with who

db84x
Post #273921
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6:37 am, Apr 7 2009
Posts: 80


@ Strayed
There are a lot of manga series which publish but rare like Ichigo 100% which discussed for loong time, discussing the manga just for shown that the manga is deserve to read. I think nobody in this forum annoyed just because this topic

strayed
Post #273938 - Reply to (#273921) by db84x
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The Beast
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7:47 am, Apr 7 2009
Posts: 134


Quote from db84x
@ Strayed
I think nobody in this forum annoyed just because this topic

well, u're right...
don't get me wrong...i didn't mean to stop you to argue about that topic, just to remind to prevent any misunderstanding, that's all. smile
because i saw in other forum where some fans quarelling about that.

Quote from db84x
@ Strayed
There are a lot of manga series which publish but rare like Ichigo 100% which discussed for loong time,

other series...hmm...do u mean : I"s, love hina, suzuka, etc ?
one of the reason why people don't discuss those series anymore, probably because they don't have anything crucial to complaint about. so, u can't assume it as something bad.
however, people are still discussing ichigo100 are mostly because they have problem with this manga, and all of us already knew what it is.

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silencer
Post #273953
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The last Blood Elf
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11:13 am, Apr 7 2009
Posts: 200


Wow, you guys are talking about Ichigo100%, which ended long ago and WAS a manga that i almost forgot about after reading it.
lol, i think Strayed is right "people are still discussing ichigo100 are mostly because they have problem with this manga".After seeing this topic, i'm quite curious and post this.

Hmm, the plot of this manga is so much like a pervert's fantasies ( where only one certain guy always ends up in stupidly embarrassing situations with every girl he met beside his mom eek )and completely unrealistic, almost all the girls (it's about 80% probability - just kidding laugh ) fell for him - a good for nothing lame loser with low IQ but it's NOT unreasonable and impossible, since he has a , uhm, pure and sincere personality (? i'm not sure) and he is very protective and devoted to his girls ( i'm sure laugh )
And, the girl he chose is Tsukasa, she probably suits him the best ( i don't care and don't want to discuss this), but, you know, I like Aya the best, she is sooo my type ^^ ( just recently found out about it).

Anyway, i don't rate this manga low, because i think it's unnecessary.
* edit: it's not even in my complete list >,>

Last edited by silencer at 11:25 am, Apr 7

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limlima
Post #275862
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8:47 am, Apr 14 2009
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I was expecting this end. Mainly because the author is female.
The way Nishimo builded up the relationship with Manaka explains it.
Anyways, I wanted to see it ending in a threesome (lol), ok I'll go soft, love triangle. But that's a Shounen not a Seinen, no way it could happen sad.

strayed
Post #275891 - Reply to (#275862) by limlima
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The Beast
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12:20 pm, Apr 14 2009
Posts: 134


Quote from limlima
I was expecting this end. Mainly because the author is female.
The way Nishimo builded up the relationship with Manaka explains it.
Anyways, I wanted to see it ending in a threesome (lol), ok I'll go soft, love triangle. But that's a Shounen not a Seinen, no way it could happen sad .


well, in my opinion, the ending wasn't prepared and planned well. smile
if the cues for tsukasa-junpei ending already convincing enough, no one would oppose it, or at least there wouldn't be many readers disappointed by it.
if she really had planned well for junpei-tsukasa ending, she should have made more convincing process for it. and it wasn't necessary to make anymore cues that junpei would end up with aya anymore. and it wasn't necessary to make a love rival like amachi. i have no idea why she still made some heart throbbing and heart breaking moments for aya & junpei until the last chapter. it only made the aya-junpei supporters even expected their ending even more. the mangaka poured more oil to the fire. smile
that's why some readers felt betrayed when they saw the ending. smile
it shows us that the mangaka still wasn't sure about which girl would junpei choose until she made the last chapter.


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SirLoki
Post #275902
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1:27 pm, Apr 14 2009
Posts: 57


I tend to agree - i was even a nishino supporter but i had already resigned myself to having him end up with Toujo - even looked forward to it.

The way it all happend just left me feeling so bad for the other 2 girls that it totally ruined being happy for Nishino

Quote
and it wasn't necessary to make a love rival like amachi.


And this was true as well - why did they give up actual valid relationships with people that loved them to be left off like they did at the end?

To be fair the mangaka did say in an interview that when the manga was started it was always going to be Toujo at the end but that when writing a weekly manga the story evolves on its own - i saw the change and that is why i was cheering for Nishino but i still think the ending was far to rushed and that for all the happy parts the sad ruined it

db84x
Post #276072 - Reply to (#275902) by SirLoki
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2:52 am, Apr 15 2009
Posts: 80


Quote from SirLoki
I tend to agree - i was even a nishino supporter but i had already resigned myself to having him end up with Toujo - even looked forward to it.

The way it all happend just left me feeling so bad for the other 2 girls that it totally ruined being happy for Nishino


i think the main problem just because in this genre, usually the main character end with first girl who he meet. But because story goes to Manaka + Nishino and maybe mangaka bored with typical ending, so she made different ending which shock a lot of fan and increase this manga status from good into legendary even it came from common genre eyes

strayed
Post #276135 - Reply to (#276072) by db84x
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The Beast
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8:00 am, Apr 15 2009
Posts: 134


Quote from db84x
Quote from SirLoki
I tend to agree - i was even a nishino supporter but i had already resigned myself to having him end up with Toujo - even looked forward to it.

The way it all happend just left me feeling so bad for the other 2 girls that it totally ruined being happy for Nishino


i think the main problem just because in this genre, usually the main character end with first girl who he meet. But because story goes to Manaka + Nishino and maybe mangaka bored with typical ending, so she made different ending which shock a lot of fan and increase this manga status from good into legendary even it came from common genre eyes


the main problem is, the mangaka still didn't have a firm decision about which girl junpei would choose, even until the last chapter.
the mangaka made too much props and clue for aya-junpei ending, that's why many people felt deceived.
she should have made a more strong props that convincing enough to make the reader can't object about tsukasa-junpei ending.
unfortunately, the props she made ain't convincing enough to block them to complaint.

i dunno what was she intended that time, but one thing for sure, what she did already disappointed many readers and if the goal was to be legendary as u said, i guess she failed for that, because a legendary wouldn't be opposed by so many readers. there were much more unique way to end this manga instead an ending that very vulnerable against a complaint. but if the goal was to be remembered, yes, she succeeded, because this manga already remembered for the problematic ending. smile




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Dr. Love
Post #276152
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9:49 am, Apr 15 2009
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Strayed, I don't mean any offence by this, but stop your whining about Aya not getting together with Junpei. Yeah, you're right. The mangaka probably didn't knew herself that she would have Junpei together with Tsukasa, but I guess throughout the writing process she thought that it would be a much better fit and she began to doubt who to choose between Aya and Tsukasa.

If I remember correctly, she did a poll in a manga magazine of who she would pick for Junpei. The poll decided for Tsukasa, so there you have it.

I supported for all three girls during certain intervals in the story. First I supported for Aya, since Junpei was in love with her (the strawberry-underwear girl!). And I thought of Tsukasa nothing more than a nuisance. Then she left and how she cut off her ties with Junpei was actually quite mature. My respect for her grew, but she left and I thought that was the end of her.

Then came Satsuki and I rooted for her instead. In contrast towards Aya's timidness, I loved her aggressiveness and how she immediately went for her target. After a while though, her aggressiveness wore off and she seemed just... desperate/pathetic. So when Tsukasa came back in the story, all matured - and actually setting her dream as the first priority before some silly crush - made me fall in love with her character.

Conclusion: Tsukasa, all the way! laugh

And sure, it's an "open ending" for most of the others. But I guess that's up to you to imagine how the story would progress.

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