I am not asking why these things happened. I know why they happened. The Catholic Church is why they happened. Except for the Afghan/Iraq war. That was caused by George Bush. All the things I mentioned were directly linked to pushing Christian ideals and beliefs on people who did not want to hear them.

Free-will has nothing to do with the Pope ordering you killed because you think the Earth is round. LOL. Nor is free will concerned when a president (who believes he was appointed the ruler of the free world by GOD) decides your oil filled country will be a good place to drive a tank and play target practice with the local inhabitants. In the name of "freedom" and "God-fearing Americans" LOL.

________________
Life is tough......but it's tougher if you're stupid.

Actually, free will has a lot to do with it. I'm assuming we're operating under the assumption that God exists for the purposes of this argument.

That we are created with free will is the only reason we are capable of doing such a thing. Had we been created as slaves who knew no other way, then such a thing could only be God's edict. But we aren't.

Also, in response to Stealth: I'm pretty sure I've been calm the entire time. What are you talking about?

I have moved it to PM tho.

I found something we can all agree on:

Laffy Taffy is AWESOME!

I'm so right, right?

As a side note: maybe this topic should be closed, as should other topics as controversial, it would probably be for the best.

________________
Tarutaru WHM tank FTW!!!
Anything so conspicuously small and cute MUST be evil to the core.
(\__/)
(+'.'+) <(Mwahahaha!!!)
(")_(")
This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination!

why closed? up until now, there wasnt anything offensive that i read here.
its a simple discussion about either god exists or not, and what is good or bad about it. its healthy to talk it over (as long as it doesnt get to verbal violence or forcing oppinions). besides it helps clearing misunderstandings.

btw, whats laffy taffy?

________________
the best security guard, EVER.

lol unless the topic gets off topic..

like...

laffy taffy is a candy that tastes very yummy.

<_<;;

hmm... we can take the worst of religion and the worst of atheism (i.e. crusades vs. mao killing countless religious people in china) and bash them against one another

...but that's just getting to the blame game. that has nothing to do with actual christian ideals. those truly christian say, DON'T LABEL ME WITH THOSE MANIACS!

and those truly atheist say the same thing about those cold blooded killers of religious people.

so, as long as there's no blame game in the form of who did more wrong in history, that should be fine for this topic.

truly, it's best if we live in harmony and have nice debates like this... only for the purpose of striving to learn the truth (even if it does seem impossible to reach). I am an atheist, but I have never said that I would not believe in god under any circumstances... show me proof, and I'll be like, whoa. I was wrong. Cool.

the problem comes when people feel that their pride gets insulted when they're wrong. =_=;; and therefore, personal attacks ensue...

yum. laffy taffy.

________________
-Max

@ moritana and DeLtA_IjK

Wow thats the most peaceful thing I've heard all day. You guys are the kind of people I definitely wouldn't mind talking about this kind of stuff with. And DeLtA_IjK if you are serious about finding the truth, I'd be happy to show you what I have found. No pressure just if you were interested, it would be my pleasure.

man moving stuff to a PM. kinda takes out the excitement of "what'd he say in opposition", "how bad do i look on the forum". lmao

i think the PM messages we both just did are the calmest of all of them. *sigh*

well on to a different topic about point about belief in God. what's everyones take on the second coming? granted interpretations of revelations.


________________
HUBBY of DUBBY

Who knows? It might come soon, it might come later, it might come not at all. I don't think it really matters when it comes.

I have nothing religious inside my brain.

The second coming will be on the day of the spring equinox of 2150. That is when the great solar age will pass into the age of Aquarius.

________________
Life is tough......but it's tougher if you're stupid.

I vote maybe, because sometimes I do really believe in god without any reason, but if I think more about it , I really doubt His existance.

________________
"we are people because of other people"
"I am who I am because of who we all are"

lmao. i'm sry are u serious? i don't know anything about what you said but couldn't help laughing. some reason reminded me of Sousei no Aquarion.

Edit- that other stuff was pointless. Delete *click*

Last edited by Varna at 7:58 am, Jul 3 2007

________________
HUBBY of DUBBY

ahhh, these forums are great, just the right thing to make me feel superior over everybody else because i don't get riled up and answer this unresolable dispute.

What? I am replying my self? Damm, there goes my superiority.



anyway, i sort of cooled off on the subject, if there is a god/supernatural power/omnipotent being/ whole soccer team of gods, it/she/he/they certainly hasn't shown himself/themself/herself to me, so i guess he/she/it/they doesn't want me to bother him.( and no, me not being able to see him because i don't believe in him doesn't make sense, thats just not showing on a sneakier level ) Anyway, this arrangement is fine with me.

Besides, i don't have to worry that much, 500 years ago the curch was burning people for studying physics, and now the president of the USA ( one of the most catholic countries ) doesn't give a damn what the Pope says. I believe religion dwindles when people are well educated and have all their needs fulfilled (check the poll results, a while back almost averybody was religious), so by trying to make the world a better place i think that i am removing the breeding ground for religion and making the world a better place. Its a win win situation. I shouldn't be a bitch to religious people, they are trying to help us in their own way. Can't really be mad at people for trying to help us, even if they are annoying.

anyway, for all religion enthusiasts i highly recommend "john safran against/versus god", its a fun 8 episode TV show about different religions around the world.


Last edited by bully_jesus at 8:14 am, Jul 3 2007

If we do not understand everything about the human body, if we have not been to another planet other then ours, if we have not even seen 1 billionth of the universe, if we dont understand how our own planet works and was made. Then how could we be able to understand how the universe was made.
That is why iam an agnostic i think that humans dont have the knowledge to know if there is a God or not. I do think that all religions are wrong though.

(I may suck in English so I'm sorry.. and please don't be biassed)
First, I have to say I really am so happy that you are talking about this topic..it's nice to see people who think..
If you ask my opinion, I believe in God..I am a Moslem and I believe in a one called Allah.

If you ask why, I can just tell you to look around..in our holy book Quran God says "Don't they see..?" many times. Don't you see how great is the world we live on. Don't you think how it become? I'm telling you Allah created it with all the other things. There are other possibilities too like coincidence or evolution.
...if it's by coincidence have you ever seen something happen by itself..especially such a great ones like us-humans, world, cosmos. If you ash a chemist "How do you make those medicines?" and he would answer you as "A wind blowed, then all the bottles fell down, the ingridents mixed and the medicine came out!!" Could you believe that?..can such a hard formula happen by that?
...or if it's evolution..why it doesn't happen now?
...if you believe in Big Bang it says the whole world came from a little spot.then where did it come from??
...or do you think the cosmos was here and will be forever..but it's changing, we know cosmos is getting larger.if it's changing then it can't be eternal, right?
so in my opinion all the other ways are impossible there is just ne more way left; that Allah creatd the world.

I saw a message says God do you hear my pray?I want to tell something about that. If you go to a doctor and ask for some medicine, he may give it to you but he may not, too..if he doesn't you can't say he's bad because maybe he will give you a better one, maybe the medicine is hurtful for you. so when we pray Allah may not always give what we want..maybe he will give something better..or he wanted us to pray him, remember him-remember how strong he is that only he can give us what we want-as the one who created us of course he will want us to remember him, right? when we get ill, when we are in bad situations we pray, that makes us just to rely on him and remember him..

about what kind of a thing is god..He can see,hear but not like us by human eyes or ears..he is not on the clouds..he is everywhere; in our hearts, on a beautiful flower, in our thoughts..he knows about everything, past, now and future..he isn't born and he has no children..he is eternal..he has no partner..he has no bad sides..

and in Islam, our prophet Muhammed (s.a.v) says "work for that world like you never will die, and work for other world like you'll die tomorrow" I want you to know faith is not spending all your time and money to church and praying..just don't spend them for things those forbidden by religion..if you really try even if you can't do much Allah will accept them as much more..so be hopeful..

I really do want to talk about that subject.. I haven't read all pages yet but in shall Allah I will and if you have questions I can do my best to answer...

and here is something from Newton, I don't remember much but it was something like that: if you believe in god and if there really is, you will have a great present as heaven..if you believe in god but if he doesnt esist you'll lose nothing, and had a prayful and peaceful life..if you dont believe in god and if he doesnt exist you'll lose nothing too..and if you dont believe in god and live so, and if he does exist, then there is a big torture waiting for you...

Last edited by sweet_basil at 9:29 am, Jul 3 2007