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|New Poll - Authors and Crimes
|This week's poll was suggested by residentgrigo and inspired by what happened with WATSUKI Nobuhiro (author of Rurouni Kenshin) and people in Hollywood or politics.
You can submit poll ideas here
Previous Poll Results:
Question: You're reborn. At what age of your new life would you prefer to remember your entire former life?
As a baby (so right away) - votes: 1982 (29.9%)
As a child (toddler to preteen) - votes: 1718 (25.9%)
During the teenage years - votes: 1239 (18.7%)
As a young adult - votes: 588 (8.9%)
When I'm middle aged - votes: 55 (0.8%)
As an old person - votes: 63 (0.9%)
I wouldn't want to remember my past life - votes: 488 (7.4%)
I don't want to be reborn - votes: 500 (7.5%)
There were 6633 total votes.
The poll ended: December 9th 2017
Imagine being burdened as a baby with all this past knowledge...
|Posted by lambchopsil on December 9th 9:28am
No publishing company will touch him when he gets out and his old manga and anime will never be shown on tv or reintroduced on updated formats. Just sad, that a good series was tainted. If you already own the manga and anime before that is good, but new stuff money would go to him. I mean who would want to give money to a pedophile. Am I right or wrong.
Interesting poll, after a long time.
Well, I personally don't care, since their fictional work and their real life activities have nothing do with each other (I'm the kind of person who purposely avoids learning about creators' personal lives/opinions, because that almost always ruins things for me or biases me in a stupid way, which I don't like). However, their creations will go out of print/distribution very quickly and nobody will ever promote/sell/adapt them again, so they'll die out very quickly anyway. Still, I choose the first option.
Nice eh? You wouldn´t mind looking at it if was hanging around a relative´s house. You may then look at the signature to see who drew it, as there may be other work by the artist out there. Something you would´t mind owning yourself (reproduced of course.) What if i told you who drew it, you all know him. It´s
Spoiler (mouse over to view)
Still interested? Does it still look nice? Would you kept looking at it for longer if someone told you who drew it the moment you first saw it at a relative´s house? Would you start judging them why they had that panting? Here
It's still a pretty painting
That´s what i said but not only are many of his artworks still ceased by the US government to this day, one of his works was attacked with a knife recently during as gala (it survived). To say that humanity was capable of divorcing Adolf Hitler the artist from Adolf Hitler the Reichskanzler just isn´t true.
Wolfenstein II has an amazing cameo by him btw. yet i had to import the Pegi version to see Hitler and not Herr Heiler. Or Nazis instead of The Regime. The gore is 100% left in tact but any references to Germany, Jews etc. have been stripped clean from the game in the local version. Fallout 3 had it´s Nuke removed, the Fat Man was renamed and so on (the gore was removed too, cuz Japan). Company of Heroes 2 is banned in Russia due to it´s... rather demonic (and historically iffy) take on The Red Army. WW2 as a topic still continue to hurt and Wolf II´s Make America Nazi-Free Again campaign somehow ended up being a controversial political statement in 2017. 2017!
And then there was Charlie Hebdo. Or how about Anita Sarkeesian? She technically created a documentary mini series but we saw what that lead too... Law & Order ended up having a Gamergate ep. due to her! The artists and the art were hardly seen as separate entities in these later examples. They still aren´t. Orson Scott Card lastly didn´t commit a crime with his ongoing crusade against the legislation of homosexuality but good luck getting a conversation about him going and not having it turn about his RL views.
Or how Lovecraft´s work crusaded against black people. Shub-Niggurath indeed.
Interesting poll again. While I'd love to say that you shouldn't judge a work for its creator, if I ever found out that whatever I'm currently reading was created by a serial killer, I don't think I could enjoy it the same way as before.
John Wayne Gacy is one of the most famous serial killers there is. He also worked as a clown (the one in American Horror Story is based on him!) and wrote a book. He is hardly the only such " all-round talent". This very own database has works attributed to killers.
John Wayne Gacy is one of the most famous serial killers there is. He also worked as a clown (the one in American Horror Story is based on him!) and wrote a book. He is hardly the only such " all-round talent".
Surprised you left out the fact that Gacy painted a bunch of clown portraits while he was on death row, many of which were sold. Apparently he was even allowed to keep the money at first.
This very own database has works attributed to killers.
Speaking of which, if any scanlation group wants to conduct an experiment along the lines of this poll, Manga Sagawa-san
I though prefer the skull made from naked people and a bunch of dicks: http://www.miaminewtimes.com/arts/the-ten-creepiest-paintings-b y-serial-killer-john-wayne-gacy-6491945
I have read Mein Kampf, have seen films that killed people during production as Fitzcarraldo and have watched the better films by Roman Polański, etc. I wonder if Hollywood actors will still put money in his pocket after #MeToo became the Time´s Man of the Year in 2017. I think that he is now finally done.
Hitler´s biography in his own words (you guys have no idea how mad it gets) is obviously impossible to be divorced from the creator but the behind the scenes drama never fully left my mind while engaging with the other stuff. I would be nice if i could return to American Beauty and still just let the film play but i doubt that... Or the Fox X-men universe
You know what a library is, right?
libraries still have to buy them, so i'm good on that front (plus politics might likely play a role in which library will have certain works)
Because of the 4th point being 'Only works that are related to the crime are tainted (i.e., plot point about rape)', the question is very vague/incomplete to me. Please clarify it for me.
Do you mean, author has been charged and/or convicted of a serious crime, as in his/her work containing murder, rape, child prostitution, etc (either made up / fictional or taken from a real incident) or him/her being the murder, rapist, pimp etc?!
As for the answer of, if his/her WORK that I love and might be fan of gets tainted.- I gotta say that I can't careless, that/those WORK(S) will not be least bit tainted for me, it'll be albeit same to me as it's used to be.
So I'm choosing Make no difference, so I don't care, regardless of whatever the question pointing to.
P.S. My chosen option only concerns the WORK(S). No Comments on the Author, as it'll vary depending on the context.
Since I'm already a pirate and consume scanlations, nothing would change there. I do think it's extremely important to separate the work from the author/artist and give it value on its own merit. Roman Polanski made some very good movies that can be enjoyed on their own without supporting said child rapist. So in general, I would choose the first option.
However, works don't exist in a vacuum. Outside of the scanlation/pirating realm, I would not buy or support anything the artist makes because I do not want to become a patron of a criminal. This is one reason I think piracy should still be around, so we can consume media without supporting people we don't want to support.
I have read manga series where the author of the series goes to jail. Their career is basically over; no more publishing, no more advertising. Honestly, I remember most of those series fondly, but I wouldn't go looking for new works by the author nevertheless. The gap of three or more years is too long for me to stay interested in the continuation of a story. Its not like the work is tainted; the author is no longer appealing enough for me to follow, I guess.
If I knew before reading the series that the author was convicted of a crime, I wouldn't read it though for the most part.
I'm a very fickle person. So if the an author did something that is out of line with my ethic, I'd judge. I won't be able to look at things the same way. If i enjoyed the work, somehow it'd make me feel associated with the crime. Not very reasonable, but yeah.
I've learned to separate the artist's art from his or her personal life. Yeah, it's always in the back of my mind, but you really have to do it sometimes.
I mean, Michael Jackson was accused of child molestation, but the man made 'Thriller'. Freakin' 'THRILLER'. Even if it was proven that he molested kids, it doesn't stop them beats from being rad, yo.
The artist is irrelevant in other aspects but the work of art's nature, as in, if it sucks or not. That's what I am there for.
I do avoid artists works if I don't like them personally (such as Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, Chris Brown). It's hard to do when it's your favorite artist, but I couldn't read (or listen or watch) their work without thinking of the things they have done.
Don't care. If a manga is good I'm not going to skip it because of something the author did.
Art is art. But if for you art is a social thing, I accept your judgement.
I'm a bit shocked actually that for most people, it wouldn't make any difference. Has our society become so numb that serious crimes don't affect people anymore? Sad, really, really sad, that most people don't care as long as their own desires as fullfilled and they're satisfied!
I, for my part, would stop reading that author's works immediately and probably burn all of their works I've bought so far. People wo rape, murder etc. don't deserve a fraction if my time, let alone my money!
I voted for the first choice, because I don't think it matters if the author committed a crime or not, if the story is good. Sure, I may not like the author as a person, but if his work is good, I don't see any reason to avoid it, just because he committed a serious crime.
It's not like he is harming others by continuing to write or draw. That being said, if he used his works to paint himself in a good light (making his crime seem like something not so wrong), then that would annoy me a little bit and I may stop reading/seeing/admiring his works.
Even though I may say that, it really depends on what crime he/she committed and why. If the crime is something that makes me detest that author as a human being, then I would most likely stop consuming the author's works. But I feel like I may also read one of his works every once in a while, to complain about the author.
you're going to find skeletons in everyone's closet. you do you, but it's completely fine for people to have the ability to be able to divorce someone's work from the person. something can be learned from the works, even if that person no longer gets employed anywhere.
mmmm not sure until it has happened; que sera sera. Though I have experienced a difference in beliefs with an author of a great epic, Orson Scott Card. For those who had yet read his amazing work, the Ender saga, their refusal to read his work was their method of protest to him being against homosexuality. Finding out about that did not stop me from finishing the Ender Saga though. However being against homosexuality seems to be a contradiction to the morals and principles of the Ender Saga. Though this isn't in the same realm as a serious crime....
It depends on the medium. Its going to be hard to watch stuff with Kevin Spacey in it and I can't look at anything with Bill Cosby and not feel tremendous disappointment. There's been other actors who have been convicted of crimes where I now avoid the work they've been in. In part this is because they are public figures and their images are so strongly associated with their roles that its harder to separate their work from their personal lives.
Writers are a little bit of a different story because they are easier for me to divorce their work from their personal...uh, issues. It also helps if an author has long been dead. Unlike actors they tend to be hidden behind their work. On the other hand, if its a current author and their crime is especially egregious or one that hits my rage/disgust buttons like harming a child in any way then yea their work overall will carry a taint. Depending on the crime might make me avoid their work or throw it out if I own it.
Could I look at a painting by Adolph Hitler? Yea, sure no problem. Do I think it should be preserved and not destroyed? Absolutely. Would I hang one up or a replica in my home? Hell, no. I wouldn't be able to look at those things in my private space and not be upset. So context of viewing the work also matters. If its looking at something from a historical perspective or for an academic paper let's say, then no problem. For personal or recreational use different story.
I'd love to say "I don't care", but from experience I know that once I find out something about an author that I don't like, I can't enjoy their works to the same extent anymore. It doesn't necessarily have to be a criminal record, maybe the author holds retarded political views, that sort of thing.
You know, in all honesty, I voted for "makes no difference", but I think in large part that was in response to the specific examples
in the OP (on me of course) and I failed to think far enough through the "convicted of a serious
Yeah, now that I think about it again, I see breaking news that one of my favorite authors.......well, favorite whatever, casual acquaintance, stranger that lives down the street, whoever........just got his house raided and they found a dozen or so people cut up and stuffed in his freezer, yeah, kinda hard to say I wouldn't "treat their works" differently >_<
And yeah, in a case like that, we'd be looking at "All works past, present, and future has been tainted"
Had a situation like this happen 10 or so years ago with a artist I liked and eventually I was able to enjoy and respect the work again. After that it has been easier to separate the work from the artist to an extent. But for me at least that applies to older work, for instance I can always watch Mad Max and Lethal Weapon but I could never stomach watching anything new from Mel Gibson.
I wish there is an option to change my vote. I was not sure between the first and last option. And I voted for the first option but after more thinking I lean more toward the last option (Thanks to hahhah42). After that, the first option feels kind of ignorant for me that people couldn't care less about somebody's evil doings as long as they get what they want.
About manga segawa-san, I've watched the interview on youtube a few years ago. At that time, I was just oh wow crazy but interesting. He wrote a manga, great. But wait, he wrote a manga describing when he killed his gf and that he thought her butt flesh is so yummy asdf*^#%, No, just no. I couldn't read it. It's sick and I feel really bad for the girl's family who is left behind, and the thought of him using this story to get money, and.... it's not just a fiction anymore.
I feel the same about Hitler that I would admire his arts in museum or somebody's house. He has great skill and it's interesting to see other side of him that most people don't know. But it would be a different story, if he drew Jews massacre or something similar like that.
Honestly, I'd like to say it doesn't matter, but it does. Both when I think about it with my guts, because I know I'd be influenced by it, and with my head. The latter is because while a mathematical theorem is still objectively the same no matter who the guy who proved it was, a work of art is an expression of an artist's identity. You can't possibly judge a work of art objectively, well maybe you can, but only up to a certain point. Even when you take away the premise of a criminal author, paintings, literature, music and every form of art do acquire much more meaning when the context they were made in is known (be it political, social, historical, religious or strictly personal). So knowing that some form of art was realized by a twisted mind does change the game a lot.
If instead we're not strictly talking about art, because let's face it, 90% of manga and anime isn't exactly art, then all the more the work itself has not enough ineherent appeal to overcome real life tragedies. It doesn't mean nobody can enjoy it, it comes to personal dispositions, and there's not a right answer.
I'm really surprised by the percentage of people who voted for "Make no difference" because wow, that's almost half the people on MU who wouldn't not care if an author was charged and/or convicted of a serious crime, like a serious crime. I'm hoping they haven't thought through the whole serious crime thing...
Anyway, I'm kinda with train93 in that a piece of art like fiction, poetry, painting, comedy, music, etc is an expression of the artist and so all their works are tainted. Yeah, the degree in which they are expressed depends on the medium and the artist, but when it's something serious and not just that in real life they're bigots then it's always going to be an issue. Even when it's that they're bigots, if they're working in poetry or comedy or some medium that basically requires the artist to invest part of themselves as themselves in their work to be successful then yeah also tainted.
I can separate the art from the artist pretty easily. Most of the time. What actually makes it hard for me, is when the artist dies or something, for manga. I know of one in particular where the artist died recently, and I still feel sad when I see an image from it. Maybe that's how people feel when an artist commits a serious crime.
In most serious crime scenarios, I wouldn't be able to evaluate their work the same. Especially if the nature of their crime is contradictory to whatever uplifting messages they try to convey.
I went with anything new they work on is tainted primarily to close off my poll. It´s highly unlikely that i will burden works from years past with newfound knowledge.
Kenshin for example ended in 1999, so there the masterpiece shall rest. The new films have started in 2012, so they can go on and finish the saga but i now have zero mental interest in an anime re-adaptation or the new manga.
I can also certainly get out of a narrative if themes related to the crime are covered in past works too but that is mostly a secondary concern. Which reminds me, i want to give the Battlefield Earth audiobook by L. Ron Hubbard a try next week. It´s by the dude who created Scientology. He wrote it long after starting that cult (it´s not recognized as a religion in Germany and is widely hated), so it´s clearly tainted goods. I will give it a try due to the author´s deranged views specifically, so there is a certain appel to look up the creative works of monsters too. He was also dangerously close to have become a proper criminal in his lifetime, as the IRS was gunning for him hard just before he died due to tax fraud on a major scale.
Edit: @gwkimmy And you also don´t know how libraries operate, got it.