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News Article
New Poll - Drinking
The natural follow-up to last week's poll

You can submit poll ideas here
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: Have you ever tried reading manga while drinking?
Choices:
No, and I am not interested in trying - votes: 1191 (20.4%)
No, I don't even drink - votes: 2714 (46.5%)
Yes, and it was an unpleasant experience - votes: 116 (2%)
No, but I would be interested in trying - votes: 595 (10.2%)
Yes, and it was an enjoyable experience - votes: 405 (6.9%)
Yes, but it made no difference - votes: 813 (13.9%)
There were 5834 total votes.
The poll ended: February 10th 2018

Probably should've done the polls the other way around. Oh well
Posted by lambchopsil on February 10th 9:11am Comments ( 30 )  [ View ]  [ Add ]
Comments

» tactics on February 10th, 2018, 2:48am

I'll have the occasional drink now and then.

Gone are my days of drinking to get drunk. Now I either drink because I just fancy something with a kick or it's social drinking.
I usually casually drink Sake or Yuzu at home, and beers when I'm socialising or at the pub watching football.

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» VawX on February 10th, 2018, 4:24am

I never drink so I don't know anything about taste of alcohol mmm...
So for anyone who drink or not drink because they like it or don't like it, what's the main purpose you like/dislike it, is it the taste or what mmm...~?

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» im_uni on February 10th, 2018, 3:50pm

I like certain kinds of alcohol because of their taste. E.g., I like light beer (hate beer with high % of alcohol), like moderately sweet wines (OK with sweet ones, not fond of dry).
I'm OK with high % of alcohol as long as the drink doesn't taste of ethanol itself.

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» gwkimmy on February 11th, 2018, 6:29pm

I really hate the taste of alcohol, and I can definitely taste it in anything. my friends and family have made me try lots of things and I can taste it. I can even taste the alcohol in certain cakes like tiramisu and rum cake. It's just not my thing at all.

I might have been traumatized as a child when I asked my uncle for a cup of soda and he gave me a cup of beer instead. I threw up LOL

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» Rasparr on February 10th, 2018, 4:57am

I don't DRINK alcohol. Voted for "because I don't like it", but it's actually "why would I spend money on something that is expensive, has a negative impact on my health and probably tastes just as bad as or even worse than it smells while I could as well spend my money for something related to manga, games and merchandise".

I DO however consume alcohol when it's an ingredient of cakes or desserts like Schwarzwälder Kirschtorte or Tiramisu.

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» Senrosj on February 10th, 2018, 12:59pm

I have the same opinion when it comes to smoking and also kind of when it comes to alcohol. Still, alcohol isn't always that expensive (when you go to a supermarket to buy it) or if it's beer in Germany and it isn't the Oktoberfest (where 1 Liter of beer costs you 10 euros...) Even if you go to a restaurant and get a beer, it doesn't cost all that much more than another drink in the menu. Shots and cocktails in a bar... that is a waste of money. Same with cigarettes. I mean, here the cheapest ones cost you are 5 euros and they go all the way to about 10 (maybe even more, but I barely know anything about cigarettes.)

Anyways, I went for ocassionally. I rarely drink and when I do it's with other people. I used to get a beer when I ate in a restaurant, but now I barely do it. And once in a blue moon I'll drink too much with my friends and get drunk. In my senior year of high school I did drink a fair bit though. There were many parties and all of them have a lot of alcohol.

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» KaoriNite on February 10th, 2018, 1:33pm

I don't like it. I used to drink just to go along with the flow, I didn't want to be the only one at the party not drinking. But I never enjoyed it. I just went from not feeling anything to being dizzy and throwing up all the time. There was never a fun feeling to it, so I stopped. Besides, it's expensive and tastes gross.

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» residentgrigo on February 10th, 2018, 1:37pm

I'll drink occasionally but rarely. Just when it´s presented i guess and only the strong stuff then.

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» train93 on February 10th, 2018, 4:41pm

I drink occasionally when I hang out with friends, but it's just a beer with a pizza, and I've always avoided getting drunk. Well, lately not even a beer, since I found out it makes my stomach struggle a bit. It's a shame because beer has a very good taste. I'll drink the occasional glass of wine, but I'm not a fan of it. Oh, and champagne when there's something to celebrate. Have tried whisky, but I dislike strongly alcoholic stuff, and it doesn't do anything for me since I don't want to get drunk.

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» MinatoAce on February 10th, 2018, 11:08pm

I drink occasionally. Only with friends mostly and Vodka is the norm for me, where my friends are mostly rum or whiskey people.
Well it's turning into 'No, because I don't like it', with the passage of time. 'Will' was thrown into options unnecessarily btw.

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» drunkguy on February 11th, 2018, 1:15am

I actually didn't drink that much... today. dead

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» Eloriel on February 11th, 2018, 6:00am

Nope! Unsure if I would choose "because I don't like it" or "because of health reasons". I get nauseous as soon as I swallow even a mouthful of any kind of alcohol. Hence, I don't like the taste (or smell) of it. dead

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» svines85 on February 11th, 2018, 10:49am

Ah, that feeling of blissful contentment that comes from waking up just whenever on a lazy Saturday and having your morning coffee with a shot of Kahlúa and Baileys Irish Cream while watching cartoons and firing up bong hit after bong hit...............so, knowing you're an alcoholic and to stay the hell away from any/every kind of booze counts as "no, because of health reasons", right? laugh

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» zarlan on February 12th, 2018, 9:24am

The alternatives were kinda shit. "No, because I don't like it" sounds like you just don't like the taste ...and "No, because of health reasons", sounds like you have a specific condition, that is the reason.
What if you simply don't fancy the idea, of voluntarily poisoning yourself, impairing your judgement, motor skills and memory, and making sure you do stuff, that you'll (possibly very deeply) regret?
(I went with health reasons)

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» RoxFlowz on February 12th, 2018, 11:28am

Only when it's free.

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» Mamsmilk on February 13th, 2018, 7:31am

Sometimes when I go out with people. Often get hammered then. Trying to avoid doing it now though, because lately I've only gotten bad vibes.

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» gormadoc on February 13th, 2018, 8:44pm

Some folks sound like they don't have a middle ground between nothing and getting drunk.

For those who don't like the taste of beer but are interested in trying more, try a gose. They are more similar to cider in taste and shouldn't taste like alcohol. If you're in a US city, you can definitely find one in a bar near you. Same should be true for some European countries.

For those outside the countries with craft beer movements, I understand your dislike. Those beers are guaranteed to suck.

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» LazyCat3 on February 14th, 2018, 10:51am

i drink BUT i don't drink to point i don't remember then next day what i did. i know how to drink and NOT make a fool of myself. i like to drink only after a meal. A glass of wine after meal it's not poison (wine has minerals and helps digestion) just saying, only a big quantity of alcohol is bad for your health, but that goes for everything, like sweets or meat, these aren't bad for health either, it's bad if you exaggerate.

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» zarlan on February 15th, 2018, 3:38am

Quote from LazyCat3
A glass of wine after meal it's not poison/.../only a big quantity of alcohol is bad for your health

No.
Sugar is only bad, in large quantities, sure ...but sugar is an essential nutrient. Meat is essentially the same.
Ethanol, however, is a poison.
The quantity determines how severely you are poisoned and how badly you are impaired. Not whether or not you are poisoned/impaired.
Quote
(wine has minerals and helps digestion)

The minerals are in the alcohol, is it? roll eyes
Please note that all these studies on wine (done by wine drinkers. No bias there, eh?), apparently don't seem to be able to be done, on other forms of alcohol. Kinda suggests that the alcohol, has nothing to do with it, doesn't it?

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» LazyCat3 on February 16th, 2018, 10:16am

Quote
The minerals are in the alcohol, is it?

zarlan dude you quote what i said ("wine has minerals") how did you manage to change and not understand what i said? i said WINE has minerals NOT all alcoholic drinks... and red wine helps if you have problems with blood circulation, and strong drinks like vodka help if you have problems with high blood pressure. i'm not forcing anybody to drink alcohol, i just point out some real facts, because the non-drinkers act like people who drink are some losers.

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» zarlan on February 16th, 2018, 1:58pm

Quote from LazyCat3
how did you manage to change and not understand what i said?

I changed nothing.
You were saying it, in defence of alcoholic drinks.
For your statement to have had any relevance, whatsoever, to be able to defend alcoholic beverages, the benefit needs to be from the alcohol itself, or your argument is utterly invalid.
Benefits from non-alcohol aspects, have nothing to do with the alcoholic nature, of the beverage, after all.

So, therefore it is only natural to ask if you are proposing that the minerals are part of the alcohol. This question should make anyone, with any sense, realise their error.
...except you didn't.
How you managed such a feat...
Quote
i just point out some real facts

...which have no kind of relevance, to the issue at hand, whatsoever.
Quote
because the non-drinkers act like people who drink are some losers.

...and you're not?
You voluntarily poison yourselves, indeed pay premium prices for it.
Why?
Either to totally lose all control, judgement and sanity, and do totally stupid things
...or to "be more social". I.e., you are too shy, have bad self esteem or some other issue but, rather than deal with that, and better yourself, you take the easy way out and drug yourself, instead, using alcohol as a crutch.
You're too much of a coward, to be around people, so you drink.
...
I'll get plenty of hate, for what I just wrote, but...
Can anyone make a reasonable argument, against it?
I don't see it happening.
I've certainly never heard one.

(as to the taste: You don't need the alcohol, for that. AFAIK, no one is a fan of the taste, of the alcohol, in and of itself ...and I've heard about most [not all, from what I've heard ...but certainly most] alcoholic drinks, tasting shit, and requiring quite some time, to get used to. Why does anyone bother to? Because of the alcohol. To get drunk ...or a little buzzed. Whatever degree of being affected by alcohol, that they are aiming for)

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» gormadoc on February 16th, 2018, 4:32pm

Do you avoid peppers, mint, and cinnamon? The primary flavor compounds in each are actually poisonous. Many common herbs contain thymol, which is not just poisonous; it's used as a pesticide. In fact, most strong flavors in herbs come from a variety of aromatic compounds, all of which are potentially carcinogenic.

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» zarlan on February 17th, 2018, 7:50am

Quote from gormadoc
Do you avoid peppers, mint, and cinnamon? The primary flavor compounds in each are actually poisonous.

That is utterly untrue. Capsaicin (I assume that's what you mean, in the case of "peppers") can be bad, if you get in a wrong place, or if you get too much of it, but in usual food consumption, it has no adverse or toxic effects, at all (there are multiple medicinal applications, however). The burning sensation, is due to it reacting with the nerves that have to do with pain/heat, but there is no actual heat or tissue damage.
It can be bad, if you take too much, but that's beside the point.
As to mint... Menthol I assume? It has several beneficial effects, and medical uses, but poisonous? The best I could find, to support that claim, was a mention that it can be bad for you, in very high doses (as is the case, with everything. Including water)
As for Cinnamon... I assume you're talking about coumarin? Here, at least, there is some truth to it, as it is slightly toxic, to the liver and kidneys.
Quote
Many common herbs contain thymol

It has several beneficial properties, but I see no evidence of it being the least bit toxic, to humans.
Quote
which is not just poisonous; it's used as a pesticide

Being a pesticide, means that it is toxic to one or more species, that we see as pests.
That says absolutely nothing, about whether or not it is toxic to humans.

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» gormadoc on February 18th, 2018, 11:19am

How is it untrue? Poisons are simply substances which are bad for your health in high doses. You admit this is the case for several of these substances.

Like it or not, capsaicin is an irritant and can induce nausea or vomiting. And it actually can cause tissue damage, most notably in the eyes.

As for menthol, yes, I'm glad you agree that it can be bad for you in high doses, as is the case for all poisons. High dosage is, of course, a relative term. While you correctly claim that menthol has good effects, many other poisons can have good effects as well, but poisons they remain.

Cinnamaldehyde is what I was referring to, although coumarin works as well. Cinnamaldehyde (and many other aldehyde flavorings) is genotoxic.

As for thymol, I'll grant that I was more teasing you than serious.

However, you missed the broader point. All of what you eat contains poisons. Normal fruit juice often contains a small amount of alcohol (orange juice can be 0.5% ABV). You could try going for a poison-less diet but it would not be very tasty or it would be exorbitantly expensive. If you are unwilling to forgo any food that contains the above poisons simply because they are poisons as you claim others should do for alcohol, you should reevaluate your position.

It seems that you may think that because the above poisons have beneficial applications (as virtually every biological chemical can) that they can be excused, and since you refuse to admit that ethanol has any good effects that it shows ethanol can't be okay to consume. I'm probably foolish to think so, but perhaps you'll believe it if I provide another beneficial use of ethanol: it is an antidote to methanol poisoning, and when used in such a manner, has no bad long term effects.

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» zarlan on February 18th, 2018, 2:04pm

Quote from gormadoc
Poisons are simply substances which are bad for your health in high doses.

By that definition, water would count as a poison
...and it's clearly not.
Quote
And it actually can cause tissue damage, most notably in the eyes.

...which will not happen, from eating food, with the substance in it.
At least not, for most people.
I don't know how you eat...
Quote
I'm glad you agree that it can be bad for you in high doses

Yes, but only at very high doses, which most people will never be exposed to.
At lower doses, it causes no harm, whatsoever. It does, however, have various positive effects.
Thus being pretty much the opposite of a poison.

Alcohol, however, has detrimental effects, at any dose (the severity depending on the dose, of course) ...and no positive effects, whatsoever.
Quote
Cinnamaldehyde is what I was referring to

That's the first major compound I found ...but I assumed you meant coumarin, as I couldn't find any trace of anything, indicating that cinnamaldehyde, would be toxic, in any way.

Your linked study, indicates a (largely negligible, and counteracted by the body, thus resulting in no actual harm) genotoxic effect ...and it's just one single paper and you've shown no information about it having been reproduced.

Either way, the negative effects are non-existent, in general (non-obviously extreme) cinnamon consumption, but it does, however, have various positive effects.
See the above comparison of menthol vs alcohol.

I'm not entirely sure about coumarin. The info is a bit scant.
Quote
All of what you eat contains poisons.

Aside from, arguably, coumarin being negligibly toxic, you have stunningly failed to show this to be anywhere near being true, so...
Quote
Normal fruit juice often contains a small amount of alcohol

...which you think is comparable, to drinks where you have knowingly created an intentional high amount of alcohol?
There are good reasons to eat fruits.
But beer? Wine? Vodka?
(also, why should I believe your cited alcohol level, for orange juice? ...which, BTW isn't a fruit. It is a fruit product. Not particularly more healthy, than stuff like Coke, Pepsi or Fanta)
Quote
It seems that you may think that because the above poisons

You have not shown that they are poisons.
Quote
it is an antidote to methanol poisoning, and when used in such a manner, has no bad long term effects.

That is not a beneficial effect, of normal ethanol consumption.
That is a beneficial effect, in a specific medical situation, and only that situation.
That doesn't count.
(just as some of the benefits from menthol or the other substances above, don't count, for the same reason ...but they still have various benefits, even in normal consumption)

Ethanol also has various other benefits, such as being part of antiseptic hand sanitizers, a fuel or a solvent ...none of which, has anything to do with consuming it.
Thus, those benefits aren't relevant to this discussion and do not count as benefits, for our purposes.

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» Senrosj on February 16th, 2018, 5:07pm

In that guy's defend (at least in the way I see it) he only stated that he liked drinking wine after a meal and that some studies show that there are (or might be) some benefits to drinking wine. He didn't want to defend all alcohol, just wine. The only benefit I know is that red wine has anti oxidants which helps you, "age better," meaning you might not get as ill when you are old. Of course, if you only drink wine every once in a while, those health benefits end up being negligible.

As far as alcohol goes, I doubt anyone would say it's healthy to drink. Might there be some benefits to it? Maybe, but do those benefits make it worth it? Probably not. Alcohol does lower your blood pressure, but I doubt a doctor would tell you to drink to combat high blood pressure. However, they do tell you not to drink, if you take medications against high blood pressure. Anyways, this was just me just talking bs.

What I find strange is that for a long time people have been socializing while drinking alcohol. Parties have alcohol, high class events as well, small gatherings of friends (many of them) have alcohol. I found the notion of needing to drink alcohol weird as a kid, and I still kind of do. I rarely drink, but I do drink. While you say that drinking alcohol to impair yourself is stupid and makes you a loser, that is the only reason I can see for drinking alcohol. Why would you drink expensive shit otherwise that damages your health?

The way I see it, alcohol can make you enjoy time with strangers or people you don't know well as much as if you were spending time with your best friends. But that's kind of sad. That people put so many walls against each other that they need alcohol to be a bit more open with each other. Still, I agree that is better to work on yourself and any problems that you have, than to rely on alcohol. And drinking a lot to forget your problems is even worse.

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» zarlan on February 17th, 2018, 8:00am

Quote from Senrosj
In that guy's defend (at least in the way I see it) he only stated that he liked drinking wine after a meal and that some studies show that there are (or might be) some benefits to drinking wine. He didn't want to defend all alcohol, just wine.

...
No.
Also, you're making a case for him being off-topic, and irrelevant.
Quote
The only benefit I know is that red wine has anti oxidants

...which you can get, from countless non-alcoholic sources.
Quote
As far as alcohol goes, I doubt anyone would say it's healthy to drink.

You haven't been reading this thread, then.
Quote
Might there be some benefits to it?

None that anyone has been able to give proper evidence for.
Quote
Alcohol does lower your blood pressure

Countless things, can lower your blood pressure.
Quote
you say that drinking alcohol to impair yourself is stupid and makes you a loser, that is the only reason I can see for drinking alcohol.

Those two notions, are not mutually exclusive.
I point out, in my comment, that those are the only reasons, that people drink alcohol for
...and also, why those are terrible reasons.

The social aspects...
You can get those "benefits", by learning how to behave differently and getting more courage and/or self-esteem and confidence ...rather than using the crutch of alcohol, and thereby making sure you never learn those things.
Quote
Why would you drink expensive shit otherwise that damages your health?

I wouldn't.
Quote
And drinking a lot to forget your problems is even worse.

That reminds me: Scientific studies have shown, that trying to drink your sorrows away, is counter-productive. You just get more miserable (maybe not while you're drunk, necessarily, but...).

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» tsuto on February 15th, 2018, 5:05am

I drink a can of beer everyday after work, I guess that counts for "I drink fairly often".

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» residentgrigo on February 15th, 2018, 2:44pm

Certain types of alcohol aren´t bad for your health if consumed in moderation, quite the opposite actually. Any doctor could tell your that. Even my biology teacher in school went over it. Actual data to back it up:
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLiving/HealthyEating/ Nutrition/Alcohol-and-Heart-Health_UCM_305173_Article.jsp#.Wo X_HOciGUm
The problems are the usual give and take of overdoing it. My Russian grandfather was more or less a functioning alcoholic with his daily vodka input but he also never got sick. He was as heathy as a horse into his late 60s until mushroom poisoning did him in.

Edit: I shouldn´t engage with an random edgy anon on the web who can´t be bothered to show data of their own but but whatever. Let´s go with a compilation link: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150901-is-alcohol-really-bad-f or-you
So alcohol is scientifically proven to help your body in certain ways and endanger you in others. There are certainly better ways to get the advantages but a bit of wine here and there won´t harm anyone. Outside of tasting like shit that is... Alcohol is also commonly used as a disinfectant but it´s pure poison and out to kill us. Sure fam.

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» zarlan on February 16th, 2018, 6:16am

Quote from residentgrigo
Actual data to back it up:

That link, contained exactly ZERO data.
Not even anything that would come close to making a reference to/mention of a study.
Just a collection of claims and nothing more.
Quote
My Russian grandfather was more or less a functioning alcoholic with his daily vodka input but he also never got sick.

Correlation is not causation. There are a million other factors involved
...and there are tons of poisonous, or otherwise harmful, substances and/or practices, that tons of people used to do, without getting sick and whilst living fairly long and well, overall. (though, naturally, not as long or well, as if they hadn't)

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