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Previous Poll Results:
Question: Opinion on ecchi
Hate it with a passion - votes: 403 (6.1%)
Actively avoid it - votes: 1064 (16.1%)
Mostly ignore it - votes: 1407 (21.3%)
Love it! Only thing I read! - votes: 440 (6.7%)
I enjoy it, but it's not the best thing ever - votes: 2502 (37.9%)
No opinion really - votes: 777 (11.8%)
There were 6593 total votes.
The poll ended: May 5th 2018
Mixed bag. Necessary evil, perhaps?
» VawX on May 5th, 2018, 1:23am
» MinatoAce on May 5th, 2018, 1:43am
Now we are talking about Scanlation here, which is fan scan+translation. So basing on that, rest of the ones that applies for me are -
>> Accurate translation of the original language & Readability of the English. Now this doesn't men that the translation needs to be 100% grammatically accurate, no grammar-Nazi here. And spelling mistakes tolerable for the most part. (Not a native english speaker, so I feel you.)I simply need them to convey the base of it in simplest way possible to give a 'GOOD' stamp. Now, I'll definitely appreciate a quality translation where possible, which I can stamp 'GREAT'. Saying that nowadays most of translations that comes out are of good quality, that even applies for hentai mangas (the word out there is, some of best/top-quality scanlation can be found there.).
>> Fonts. Yeah! it's very important. Some fronts annoys the hell out of me. Please stop with the calligraphy/graffiti and go with simple and clean fronts. For example just take 'Comic Sans', you don't need to hunt for it, you most likely got it preloaded by default.
It's still a saving on desktop/laptop, with big screen you can manage. But, on a smaller device like phone, messy fonts are a rather unpleasant experience. I find reading manga on my phone laying down my bed or couch way more comfy than on my desktop/laptop sitting/laying dawn whatever, So.
P.S. Not saying anything about "Clean" images (lack of artifacts), Color (or grayscale) balance and Image resolution because it's 2K18, ya feel me right?!
» Senrosj on May 5th, 2018, 7:06am
As for the poll, I'm a bit torn. If it's a weekly manga, I would like it to be translated on a weekly basis, but I don't really care if the raws go out on Sunday and the translation is finished by Friday. I wouldn't put this on the quality of a scanlation, but on the quality of the scanlation group.
For the quality of the scanlation, imo, it would be everything below accurate translation (counting that option as well.) It also depends on what type of manga it is. If it's a battle manga, as long as the meaning gets across, the translation doesn't need to be all that accurate. If it's a mystery manga, however, you need an accurate translation or the quality of the manga goes down a lot.
Readability of the English is somewhere on the middle for me. It can have little mistakes here and there as long as the translation is understandable, but if you have some weird mumble jumble that only the translator can understand... then it's a bad translation.
You don't think redrawers matter much, until you stumble upon a scan so ugly, you realize how much those guys have been protecting your eyes. I would say this is a fairly good variable to say how good a scanlation is. Not quite sure what "clean" images (lack of artifacts) mean. If it's about the line art, having it cleaned well makes a manga a lot more readable which makes for a more pleasant experience for the readers, but this is about lack of artifacts so no idea. And the line art (sort of making the manga have more contrast) seems more fitting for grayscale balance.
Fonts are also a good way to determine the quality of a translation. Some fonts are just that ugly.
As long as you can read the chapter well, resolution usually doesn't matter that much. Still, the higher the resolution, the better it looks.
» calstine on May 5th, 2018, 2:41am
» ForeignerChan on May 5th, 2018, 4:40am
» MangaGhost on May 5th, 2018, 5:29am
But I guess my biggest frustration is readability in English. There are some good mangas that look like google translate was used and it sometimes makes little sense. You are lucky if you get the gist of it. The other extreme is when someone is trying to make it so accurate that the English comes off as odd or "stilted" because you know that normal people don't talk like that. It too can suffer from some confusing or unintelligible dialogue. All this stuff distracts from the reading, because I'm not just looking at the pictures I'm interested in the story too. It doesn't have to be 100% accurate it just needs to make sense.
» cmertb on May 5th, 2018, 7:03am
But I'm surprised at all the people picking regularity of releases over that. It's like saying you'd eat garbage as long as you could do it regularly.
» svines85 on May 5th, 2018, 7:20am
Not in my case as far as this poll goes. It's that, as this is presented, I'm not even really considering the "accurate translation" or "readability" options because, well, if it's not readable then I ain't reading it at all, those aren't really reasonable options to me, I just take those things as simply being understood.
Regularity of releases, just as the originals are done. These are serial works, regular releases is an integral factor of presentation and to the enjoyment of readers.
» Senrosj on May 5th, 2018, 8:24am
» residentgrigo on May 5th, 2018, 8:02am
» kurotaito on May 5th, 2018, 9:33am
I am more likely to follow a scanlation group if they have regular releases, nice fonts, grayscales, and etc. If they don't do that, I might only read one series they scanlate or even drop the group entirely from my reading.
» im_uni on May 5th, 2018, 9:34am
» Sugarshark on May 5th, 2018, 11:09am
that changes I think, once you're a rabid fan of a narrow genre or mangaka where the quantity is finite and you may feel a need to experience and try and connect with a translation as accurate as possible.
other stories might peak your interest just for their portraits or highly detailed mechanical blueprints where you probably care a great deal that new text framing doesn't bleed into the artwork to accommodate extra font
» punchmanga on May 5th, 2018, 11:57am
» Afro Thunda on May 5th, 2018, 12:37pm
Accurate translation of the original language is also important, but since I would not very likely have the raw to compare against the translation, I can't really go with that. That said, if I can tell that something sounds off based on the translation and the context of the situation in the manga, that raises a red flag for me.
» kihi on May 5th, 2018, 3:10pm
The "regularity is because some groups dip by releasing the first chapter on many projects and takes really long time gap between chapters for a series, some even a year which ridiculous because clearly they don't have man power to do so. As for accuracy I read fair share of manga that if not for me guessing based on the picture I have no idea what the translation means.
A decent image quality is a standard quality a group should strive. I've seen groups released scanlation so half assed that they just slap the text with white square on the image, they don't even bother straighten the image (I'm not even joking, the restrain from doing group shaming is the only reason I don't name names). It frustrating if they pickup project from artist I like.
Honestly the rest like fonts and readability also important I feel but the above are my main one
» torrentchan on May 8th, 2018, 11:58am
"You are using a browser that php4 doesn't recognize. Please use another one."
Using Chrome and all.
My vote would be for "Accurate translation of the original language"
» vigorousjammer on May 8th, 2018, 4:12pm
Why would I want to read something if it doesn't make sense? If I'm just there for the artwork, I think I'd rather just look at the raws then read a poor translation.
However, I will say that accuracy of the translation and readability of the English kind of go hand-in-hand. An accurate translation can still be a bad translation for a for of entertainment like manga or anime. Localization can definitely be taken too far sometimes, but there should be a good balance struck between localizing the lines and keeping things accurate.
If you ask me, the best translations are ones that retain the original meaning, while not sounding like they were translated from another language at all. It's a difficult balance to strike, but I implore all translators to please make an effort to do so, for the sake of us, the readers.
» cmertb on May 9th, 2018, 6:10am
This isn't at all the way typical readers of scanlation prefer it. Previous polls have shown that most want as much of the original language as possible.
» vigorousjammer on May 13th, 2018, 2:03pm
I've accepted certain things, though... such as honorifics... since they give you a bit more insight into the context of a line and whatnot, and they typically don't confuse English-readers who are unfamiliar with them since it can be seen as just a part of a person's name.
Some translators take things too far in that direction, though... not translating certain terminology and instead leaving a needless translator's note.
Or when translators typeset the Japanese SFX literally (For example: translating 「ひ～」as "hiiiii" instead of "heee!" or "eeee!"). English speakers will just pronounce "hiiii" like the word "hi" (a.k.a. "hello"). The only people who will read that properly are likely the ones who are able to read the hiragana and katakana in the first place, so what's the point?!
That's just a few examples of some lame crap done specifically for otaku. This kind of thing only serves to further alienate scanlation (and perhaps even manga) from having mass appeal in the west... since the average reader wouldn't understand parts of it and would likely just shy away from it after giving it a try.
If you ask me, Scanlation is at it's best when it's promoting the work for an English-speaking audience... but it seems like some scanlators just want to make an English-language version for people who can speak Japanese... which makes no sense at all to me.
At some point, if translators are so in love with the Japanese language, why not just keep everything in Romaji instead of English? Right?
» cmertb on May 15th, 2018, 6:24am
Oh you tempt me so
But actually, this is the exact issue. Translators are in fact in love with Japanese, and since there is no external quality control in scanlation, this is what you get. To a fan translator, this translation style is both easier and prettier.
» Transdude1996 on May 15th, 2018, 6:54am
Manga already is mainstream and has "mass appeal" in the West. Attack on Titan is selling more comics than Star Wars, Kim Kardashian is sending out posts about DARLING in the FRANXX, Netflix is making a live-action adaptation of Sword Art Online (Even though their Death Note movie is regarded as a complete joke), J.J. Abrams has announced that he'll be making a live-action adaptation of Your Note, and let's not forget about how Western animation studios have been copying the Japanese art style for over a decade with shows like Teen Titans, Code Lyoko, Avatar, and Wakfu. I don't know how much more you can do to be regarded as having "mass appeal".
» residentgrigo on May 16th, 2018, 11:13am
Multiply that number by 6 and you have about the same figure Titan currently sells. Getting all 6 issues also costs more that buying 1 volume of a mass market manga and so on. The once astronomic Star Wars reboot number have been on a steady decline for at least a year too. That´s how that... less than ideal article got it´s numbers. The author doesn´t even know the definition of independent comic, which The Walking Dead is due to all Image books being independently owned. Lol.
Asian properties have been optioned for US productions for decades too, so lets maybe wait till these start steadily making money. We got a rare watchable one with Death Note 2017, yet the deafening silence about a sequel doesn´t speak for it´s success. At least it´s not GitS 2017, as that debacle was one of the biggest box-office bombs in film history. All that perceived brand recognition and a decade+ in development hell, yet no one showed up.
That many of the anime copy cats you threw shade on had more success than the real deal, even Disney´s The Lion King applies, shows that the imitations had an easier time reaching domestic audiences. The same can be said about the Hollywood films of let´s say Jackie Chan. His legacy in the US will be the homegrown Rush Hour and not Police Story 1 .
» Sugarshark on May 9th, 2018, 3:25pm
some stories carry along well with colloquialisms and getting the 'gist' of it
while other stories are deliberately vague or thought provoking and most readers would like to take a stab at discovering the meaning from the original source material
» RoxFlowz on May 9th, 2018, 3:56pm
» Transdude1996 on May 9th, 2018, 4:55pm
That's one of the downsides of printed media and text-only. Unlike with film and games (And/or if you have studied a second language at all), you cannot easily tell if you're being fooled unless the translator(s) are being very blatant or stupid about it:
Also, I find the statement that "100% translations are impossible" to be a blatant lie for two reasons. First is putting forward the question of why aren't equipment and tech companies getting constantly sued for "inaccurately translated manuals" since they have to develop a dozen different versions of the original manual right off the bat for their average international customer-base to understand. And, as for the second reason, I highly doubt you cannot find the "right" way to express a sentence or a word when translating due to there being about 250-750 thousand words in the English language.
» cmertb on May 10th, 2018, 8:49am
1. You are confusing literary and technical translation. In literary translation, you have to translate far more than the meaning. There are many cases where 100% accurate translation would destroy the fluency of the target language, forcing you to compromise. In technical translation, you may choose the accuracy, but in literary translation, you would reduce the accuracy to below 100%, perhaps by losing a nuance, or by introducing a different nuance not found in the original.
2. I can find quite a number of words in other languages I know that have no equivalent in English, and would require bending over backwards to express, thus destroying any kind of literary effect you might be going for, regardless of the fact that English claims to have 3 quadrillion words.
» Transdude1996 on May 10th, 2018, 8:56am
» Pikapu on May 10th, 2018, 10:06am
» Transdude1996 on May 10th, 2018, 11:05am
That isn't an argument and it isn't answering the question. You make the claim that you know of words in other languages that have no equivalent English word or term, so why are you not providing them? On top of that, your counterpoint is "Fact check boyo" when that isn't my job. It's your job, for making a claim and being asked to prove it, to be able to back it up using sources giving credibility towards the point you are making. However, what you are doing isn't such. Therefore all it's doing is giving your point no legs to stand on and just blowing smoke in people's faces.
So, again, I ask:
» kurotaito on May 10th, 2018, 1:42pm
So like with the example, "Becky" which in English carries more weight than just the meaning "white girl". How should I translate that? chica blanca or guera. Knowledge of the recieving audience could be the deciding factor, or just leave it in the original and post a link to more information. Even the reverse, I would not translate guera into "Becky", because I don't normally assume that my audience is primarily African Americans.
» Transdude1996 on May 10th, 2018, 2:01pm
» cmertb on May 10th, 2018, 4:54pm
I could take the cheap route and list words for objects that simply don't exist in English speaking countries (i.e. food, furniture, clothing), but I will make it more challenging for myself, and do concepts rather than objects. First things that come to mind:
осадок (as in ложечки нашлись, но осадок остался)
置く (when following another verb)
» Transdude1996 on May 10th, 2018, 8:09pm
Brother(s) (Add "Sister(s)" if you want to be PC about it)
"Perfection" is the only thing I can find, but that only happened after I removed the space.
"Sheaf", "sunburst", "crepuscular rays", "dappled sunlight", "Tyndall Effect", unless you're looking for a more metaphorical way of saying it.
"Tongue- tie", "confused articulation'', and/or "inarticulate speech", the only thing I can find is that it is a medical condition and it has some relation to Russian literature.
And, fuck "scholarly websites" because they lock just about everything behind a paywall.
Isn't that usually presented as a greeting the equivalent of "(Are you) well?"
"Residue", "filth", "deposit", although "tainted" seems like a more appropriate way to put it if I'm understanding the phrase correctly.
The indication of an action present before another action?
If I'm understanding things correctly, these are the closest equivalents that I can find. If I missed the mark completely, please point it out because I'd like to know as well.
» Pikapu on May 9th, 2018, 8:38pm
» cmertb on May 11th, 2018, 7:45am
If you really want to go through this, start with this one. Here's the usage of 同期 and 散る in context that I maintain is impossible to translate both 100% accurately and naturally. This is a verse from a Japanese song that contains these:
There is actually a translation of this on the internet -- it's in the description to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnFS7tTrjT8 However, it completely eliminates the meaning of 同期 and its handling of 散る doesn't paint the right image at all. Can you do any better? Think about the image of 桜が散る, what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgZ7I_1WX8Q
Here's a very similar usage of 散る: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL9zZFuaHIc
薔薇は薔薇は気 高く咲いて、薔 薇は薔薇は美し く散る。
On animelyrics.com, the translation for this line is "The rose, the rose blooms nobly. The rose, the rose perishes beautifully." The problem with it is that anyone can perish, but 散る is what flowers do, not just anyone.
Edit: also, I don't know why the forum software here inserts random spaces in non-Latin text. Both in this post and the previous one.
» Transdude1996 on May 11th, 2018, 10:19am
There is actually a translation of this on the internet -- it's in the description to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnFS7tTrjT8 However, it completely eliminates the meaning of 同期 and its handling of 散る doesn't paint the right image at all. Can you do any better?
I don't kneo, but let's see what's there with my inexperience in the language.
The "official" translation for that first couplet is:
You and I are two cherry blossoms.
We bloom in the shadow of a pile of sand bags.
Since we are flowers, we are doomed to fall.
Let us fall magnificently for the country.
Running the couplet through Bing translator, this is the result:
The cherry blossoms in sync with you and Me
Bloom in the same military school garden
Ready to scatter if blooming flowers
For the country let's get dissipated brilliantly
Running the couplet through Google translator, this is the result:
You and I are cherry blossoms of the same period
Bloom in the garden of the same soldier school
If you are a flower blooming, you are prepared to scatter
For a country to be splendidly splendid
[u]Now, here is a translation of the French translation[/u] of the song's couplet:
You and me, my comrade.
Are the flowers of a cherry tree
Springing from the same tree
of the Cadet School
We will fall into the field of honor
As the flowers fall
But we will die with passion
For the Glory of Japan
Best alteration I can think of is change the entire thing to:
You and I are cherry blossoms of the same class
We bloom in the same garden of the military school
As you are a blooming flower, be prepared to wilt
And be scattered in the benefit of the country
In the context of that sentence, replacing "perishes" with "wilts" or "withers" would solve the problem.
» cmertb on May 11th, 2018, 11:53am
This is the catch here, "wilt" is used for flowers dying in English, while 散る is used in Japanese, but the images they portray are the exact opposites of each other. 散る, as the video illustrates, is to scatter petals to the wind, it is a moment of unparalleled beauty, and metaphorically it signifies a glorious and noble death. A hero blooms like a flower, and dies as beautifully in a burst of exquisite color. You can see this symbolism in the Rose of Versailles opening several times, where rose petals are being scattered. Wilting, on the other hand, is a slow, possibly agonizing, process of fading away. There isn't anything even remotely resembling glory in it. Honestly, portraying kamikaze pilots or Lady Oscar as simply wilting away would be a terrible injustice to these two stories.
The problem with 同期 interpreted as "same class" (which is one of its meanings) is that when the story in later verses switches from 同じ兵学校 to 同じ航空隊, "class" stops working -- it becomes "same rank". 同期 has more nuances than that. For example, here's normal workplace usage of this term: https://kissasian.es/Drama/Hanzawa-Naoki/Episode-1?id=9881 (watch the dialogue at 0:25:34). How many times Ueto Aya repeats 直樹と同期の近 藤さん. The translator did an admirable job in this context, and I would use "peer" as well here, but specifically when 同期 surpasses either workplace or school, as in 同期の桜, things start being difficult. Even the term "peer" itself, as used in the workplace, doesn't specifically imply what it implies in Japanese -- that they were hired in the same batch of new recruits, as is typical with large Japanese corporations. In English, it merely implies that they're at the same level in the corporate hierarchy. In order to take this into account, the translator changed the translation of the term to more of an explanation the first time it was mentioned, but it also slightly compromised the repetitiveness that is key to this dialogue. This is also an unavoidable loss of accuracy for the sake of natural wording and comprehensibility.
Anyway, I'm off to the airport now. We can resume the investigation of the other examples I listed when I return in a week.
» Sugarshark on May 16th, 2018, 6:43pm
mainstream is the worst
» Transdude1996 on May 20th, 2018, 9:47am
Also, to the group that is translating Isekai Maou to Shoukan Shoujo Dorei Majutsu, you have absolutely no reason to be involved with scanlations, and should outright quit if you're going to be unprofessional and pull stuff like this.
» cmertb on May 20th, 2018, 3:42pm