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New Poll - Racism in Manga
This week's poll was suggested by 8-3. I'll just copy/paste what he stated
Quote
Some manga do get banned/censored/altered in certain countries due to racist imagery. What's seen as light-hearted humor in Japan could be regarded as offensive in other countries. For instance, the Viz Media version of Dragon Ball actually removed Mr. Popo's lips, due to the resemblance to "Blackface."

And compared to other countries, namely western ones, racial stereotypes actually are vastly different in Japan. Two very common stereotypes that I see in manga are that Chinese people supposedly end their sentences with "-aru," and that every black man is named "Bob."


You can submit poll ideas here
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: What is the best implementation of beast ears (kemonomimi) in manga without counting the hair?
Choices:
Beast ears on top and no human ears - votes: 1861 (66.4%)
Beast ears on side and no human ears - votes: 593 (21.2%)
Beast ears on top and human ears on the side - votes: 349 (12.5%)
There were 2803 total votes.
The poll ended: September 7th 2019

I'm very confused about having beast ears and human ears... So they just have 4 ears? Why?...
Posted by lambchopsil on 
September 7th 12:52am
Comments ( 34 )  
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Comments (limited to first 100 replies)

» calstine on September 7th, 2019, 1:59am

I feel indifferent, because I live in a South Asian country myself and don't perceive racism in the same way the west does; I'm sure Japan is the same. To get offended by supposed racism in a culture vastly different from my own and to do so by judging according to western standards - which have nothing to do with me, the reader or the writer and illustrator of the story - strikes me as being patently ridiculous.

This doesn't mean I won't judge western fiction for being racist in the way western people are racist, or my own country's fiction for being racist in a way that's relevant to my own people; but to do the same for Japanese fiction is just too illogical. I think the only people who can truly tell if a manga/anime is being racist is if they were themselves Japanese, or at least had a concrete understanding of what real-life racism in Japan looks like.

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» kurotaito on September 7th, 2019, 10:19am

I disagree with your statement. about seeing racism in another country and judging it as being ridiculous. It is true that defining racism and sexism per culture is vastly nuanced and many people get it wrong. Even in your own culture,you get it wrong!! Therefore, this idea you proposed only has so much weight in my mind.

I feel like the more you read manga and whatever else you're reading about Japanese culture; the more you become aware of racism within those things from a Japanese perspective.

There are so many novels/manga that I can't read anymore, because they feel too racist/sexist now, where before it didn't mean anything. To say "pearly white skin" or "noh shaped face" once, I can give a pass. To say it a thousand times (which some novels/manga do), I can only only think of those bonin or ainu minorities or the darker skin east asian countries migrants or natives within whatever I am reading. (This affects how a child will see themselves).

Your point of view should be encouraged when your group doesn't have that much weight in the production. However, because the foreign market for Japanese content is a good percentage of revenue (its not a small minority), our reactions have a lot of say. Once you become aware of an issue such as racism, you should back the groups within Japan (or whatever culture you like reading), such as Ainu Association of Hokkaido, Korean Residents Union in Japan and/or Shimin Gaikou Centre.

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» VawX on September 7th, 2019, 3:43am

I feel like racism is different in every country especially if we compare it from western countries to eastern countries mmm...
But for sure I never understand western racism until I'm part of western forum myself, and I bet Japanese people and mangaka also feel the same about it, they just don't realize that their content can be seen as racist by people thousand miles away from their main audience mmm...

But there are indeed some shocking, but most of all I'm okay, so my answer is It's a little shocking, but I understand that Japanese racial humor tends to be different from the rest of the world, though rather than the rest of the world it's more like western side of the world mmm...

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» orochijes on September 7th, 2019, 4:49am

I hate seeing things get banned or edited over offense. Give me the raw unfiltered stuff. The chaos that ensues in comment sections is the best. "It's funny/interesting" is the closest answer I guess.

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» residentgrigo on September 7th, 2019, 5:22am

It's as offensive as racist content found anywhere else. With a focus on anywhere. Extreme stereotyping of black and Chinese characters shows up the most to this day. And I don´t mean stuff as Mr. Popo, the zero-dimensional African clerks in the Yakuza games or the Feng shui "wizard" in JoJo Part 6 (fix him a bit David Pro). Those are mostly lazy, not malicious. I ain´t excusing them still being used as is in new material and PoPo being changed for other territories is valid (Germany left him as is) due to him intrinsically changing through an American cultural context regardless of authorial intent. I mean cases with clear intent, which I won't advertise but I stumbled over multiple ape-like black serial rapists still being used in modern manga during my recent tagging sprees. Let´s not even start about porn, as racial stereotyping there exists worldwide.

Blackface in Japanese media is an interesting topic. Gantz had a high schooler successfully impersonating a black man during his killing though simply smearing his face black, cuz that how it works. There were zero reasons for the author to go there and the killer died himself, so him being "masked" was pointless. Guess which plot point the anime film Gantz O changed/skipped despite it instigating the film´s scenario? It would have been impossible to sell the film to Netflix otherwise, as there are zero artistic merits to the blackface but we are talking about Gantz here.

Blackface Obama impressions were a common daytime comedy-variety skit in Japan. Look em up. Or how about the Chinse Poster for Black Panther? I would lastly advise staying clear from discussions of anti-Chinese depictions, as this site is less than capable of doing the mostly unacknowledged war crimes justice that still fuels this split. Anti-Japanese crap in Chinese media is equal garbage of course.

I noticed the intent of the OP to steer the discussion in a certain direction, as the answers are about comedy, while the poll´s topic is NOT. Hm... And the deflection in the tread that is already going strong. Oh those quirky Japanese, they just have their own special way of viewing the world that has never been academically explored and isn´t rooted in any social or historical context. They simply don´t have the same tools for research or reference photos as us. It´s not as there is currently a trend in Japanese media to break this cycle or anything either. Both Street Fighter and Tekken got a sensitively depicted Arabic fighter at almost the same time for no reason whatsoever. Us having a critical/analytical look at the intent of Asian creators is misguided, even if such works are exported. What´s next? Am I supposed to take the government propaganda in my Chinse action films like Wolf Warrior at face value, as I ain´t Chinese? Sure, Jan.

Racism in media is fine, it´s important to create media about it, so don´t turn my words. Just you know, not actual racism. Here an example. H. P. Lovecraft´s systemic racism in his works, and it can´t be excused through cultural context, is a toxic nightmare. There is a reason why ITOU Junji, a clear disciple of Lovecraft, noped out of that aspect in his adaptations. The thoughtful historical racism in the recent Lovecraft game The Sinking City is a positive aspect of that work on the other hand. My final recommendation is Spike Lee´s Bamboozled. A film about comedy, to be topical. The film doesn´t quite work but it´s interesting. Especially as it predicted why Chappelle's Show was canned by its own creator. It´s not like comedy/satire can be co-opted by the wrong people, oh wait.

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» vigorousjammer on September 7th, 2019, 5:24am

I feel like there's two different types of racist content:

- Content where the characters are being racist, usually in a historical setting where it would make sense for them to be this way.
- Content where the author is being racist, either by pushing their own agenda through dialogue or by portraying certain characters a certain way.

I completely accept the first type, as it helps add believably to a story, and can absolutely work in specific settings where racist people likely would exist.... and while the second type can be offensive, I also understand how it can sometimes just be an unintentional difference in cultural values (Mr. Popo being the prime example.)

The poll options are strange, as they mostly refer to "humor"... so none of them really match my sentiments on the subject, but I suppose It's a little shocking, but I understand that Japanese racial humor tends to be different from the rest of the world is as close as I'm gonna get, so that's my answer.

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» zarlan on September 7th, 2019, 7:11am

I went with "It's as offensive as racist content found anywhere else", because I don't judge Japanese content any differently than I judge any other content
...but that doesn't mean I condemn all racist content.

As vigorousjammer said, there is a difference between a character behaving a certain way, and having that behaviour presented as good or proper. Having it promoted or treated as normal/fine/okay.

Schindler's List, for example, is chock full of racist content.
Who would possibly claim that it is racist? Or offensive?

With this said, there is of course a difference between racism that is intentional or unintentional, malicious or "benevolent".
Ignorance (particularly wilful ignorance) is bad too, but with Japan being a island country, and isolated in many ways, despite the Meiji Revolution...
They tend to be a lot more ignorant than others, but for far more understandable reasons.
That is the only way, in which (some) instances of Japanese racism can be not as bad, as that of other peoples.
I have some tolerance for certain levels/kinds of ignorant foolishness, in Japanese media, due to that. It's still bad, but...

I also agree with residentgrigo's comments about Chinese people (that includes Koreans ...and some more of their neighbours, IIRC. Funny how they're significantly worse against those that are close to them, more similar to them, than those further away)

I haven't particularly encountered much genuinely racist manga, but then I doubt such I'd stumble upon such works (they'd hardly come up as recommended, or even get translated), unless it was due to someone bringing attention to it, specifically to call it out as racist.

On the other hand, I have encountered several manga with "foreign" characters, where there is no hint of racism, or even clear messages of equality, which is nice.
(though, of course, just because a work has messages of equality, doesn't mean that it can't contain some, unintentional, racism)

Edit: I forgot to comment on residentgrigo's mention of blackface.
Obama blackface, with no thought that it might be racist and offensive, was far from exclusive to Japan. How they do not realise that, that is just terrible, I simply do not understand.

Oh, and on a kinda related note:
Foreign accents in anime, typically utterly absurd and nothing like how people, of the in question country, sound. At all.
This could hardly be considered a form of racism, just...
Ignorant. Interesting. Also rather amusing.
(to be fair, Japanese depictions of an American accent, tends to have some resemblance to how Americans sound. Aside from Americans, however...)

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» residentgrigo on September 7th, 2019, 7:43am

I said my piece but I also have to break a lance for Japan, as they can also swing the other way.
Super Dimensional Fortress Macross The First (1982-83) depicts a post-race human society in the same way (60s) Star Trek did, as the nearly extinct human race had to band together to survive a war against 2 alien factions who also fight each other. (Wait, did Macross predict the inevitable Gender Wars tm?)
User Posted Image
Pictured are Roy Fokker, one of the original anime senpai with his partner Claudia LaSalle. A mixed-race couple, something the show takes as plain fact. It was the 80s US script that slightly toned down their relationship, despite it keeping the suggested sexual dynamic. (Mixed-race couples were still a bit of a hot topic in the US). The 1982 Japanese script was more woke than the US one from 1985!

The show´s female lead is the Japanese-Chinese Lynn Minmay, who became one of the biggest idols of the 80s, even looking outside of anime. We are talking about a daytime cartoon for older kids and young adults here that is older than me! Let that one sink in. Her Chinse roots are part of some of her songs and appearances. The historical anime has an abysmal 3rd act that was tacked on due to the unexpected success, so go with the remake film Macross: Do You Remember Love? that skips all that tacked on rubbish.

PS: I ain´t one to beg for scanlations but the linked manga remake can´t be licensed due to a rights clusterfuck. Scanlators with an open spot should give this one a look 😉 .

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» gwkimmy on September 7th, 2019, 7:44am

I understand that Japan's (and other country's) relationship with race is entirely different than many countries in the west, especially the United States. I'm not really the type of person to promote banning at the smallest stereotype, but I will personally withhold my money if I feel a certain way, and I won't be shy with my reasons why if people ask.

The thing is, despite the context the racist content is written in, I am still experiencing this content through my own experience as a person of color living in the U.S. No author can change that or expect me to change my expectations because of it.

I agree wholeheartedly with residentgringo that there are depictions of racist content that can be appropriate in historical contexts and just plain lazy stereotypes out there. There is also the question on if the intention of malice is involved in the content.

We can say that Japanese people have a different relationship with race all we want, but if their intention is ultimately to be successful in a global market (which includes the west), then these depictions are something that they will have to take care with and do the extra work on.

I'm not for censorship at all, I mean, let people say who they are and let people judge them by their own words and vote with their dollar. I just hate it when people complain that someone is being criticized for something that isn't their experience with race. Okay, so expect that person to only sell well with other people who understand that experience, don't expect that excuse to absolve them of criticism.

tl;dr: if I find it racist in my home, I'll find it racist in the manga. Analyze the intent, drop or continue and move on.

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» Transdude1996 on September 7th, 2019, 7:49am

As long as a good story is told, and I'm not being preached at, I don't care. Also, and this is something that I've been wondering for a while, WHAT IS ACTUALLY WRONG WITH RACISM? And, yes, that is a serious question.

All I ever hear is that it's a "terrible thing", that we're suppose to drop all matters of rationality just because we hear a single word, but no one ever hears or gives single reason why or an explanation as to how it is a bad thing beyond just "It's mean". In fact, as I'm reading up more on history, people seemed to be a lot more tolerant and progressive WHEN people were openly racist and offensive than NOW where everyone is trying to put on a facade that "we can all be one happen family.
Spoiler (mouse over to view)
And, it IS a facade because every single European tribe has been trying to kill each other since the beginning of time despite all being "white" (And were all openly racist against each other even when taking the trip across the Atlantic and landing in new territory). Every single Asian nation has been trying to kill each other since the beginning of time despite all being "Asian" (Or is it "Oriental"?). Every single African tribe has been trying to kill each other since the beginning of time despite all being "black" (Or is it "people of color", or "colored people", or "negro"?). And, every single American-Indian and Meso-American tribe has been trying to kill each other since they immigrated from Asia to American despite all being "American Indian" (Or "Meso-American", it isn't "Native American" as there is nothing "Native" about them living in America).

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» KaoriNite on September 7th, 2019, 8:03am

Quote from Transdude1996
WHAT IS ACTUALLY WRONG WITH RACISM? And, yes, that is a serious question.


Wow, I did not think we would actually have to address this. Next we'll have to start asking "was the Holocaust actually bad?" and "what's wrong with rape?"

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» residentgrigo on September 7th, 2019, 8:19am

KaoriNite, stop while you are ahead. Mission Abort, Mission Abort. Quoting for posterity is great but don´t engage the Neo-Nazi further. Don´t play into their hand. This is right out of the air-right playbook to trigger the libs and derail the discussion so that they get a platform for hate everywhere they go. I didn't read his response btw. only your comment but his opinion on the holocaust was once explored before on this site... with perilous results.

Marching past people as him is the only way how critical discussion survives. Point out the hypocrisy, give (counter) souces if needed and move on to better things.

Edit: And there you go. Incompetence verbal diarrhea that somehow excuses Jewish termination (Hitler also executed homosexuals) and the denouncement of rape as a crime. Like clockwork. Don´t click on the bad man´s links, everyone. I sure didn´t. A complete derailment of the topic before page 2 is even reached.

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» zarlan on September 7th, 2019, 9:24pm

Quote from residentgrigo
Quoting for posterity is great but don´t engage the Neo-Nazi further. Don´t play into their hand. This is right out of the air-right playbook to trigger the libs and derail the discussion so that they get a platform for hate everywhere they go. I didn't read his response btw. only your comment but his opinion on the holocaust was once explored before on this site... with perilous results.

Given his statements here, and what I saw him say (and responded to ...as I did not yet realise, that he utterly hopeless and dishonest. I won't make that mistake again) about transgenders before, and what you just said...

How the hell is he still allowed on the forums?
He is clearly massively bigoted, in just about every way, and states his bigotry at every opportunity.
...and his questions are clearly never just honest genuine questions, of the merely ignorant. Any ignorance (where he isn't actively disingenuous/lying) is obviously wilful, and hence not excusable.
Isn't one of the forum rules "Don't post offensive content"?
Granted, I don't mind controversial topics and differing opinions, but...
This is far beyond the pale, by just about any standards, isn't it?

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» Transdude1996 on September 7th, 2019, 10:56pm

Quote from zarlan
his questions are clearly never just honest genuine questions

Have you ever considered the fact that I AM asking you a genuine question since it seems like every other source doesn't give a straight answer, so I WANT a straight answer so that the other person and I are on the same page? Or, that I'm trying to figure out what direction you're coming from in your argument because the way you phrased your post made it sound weird (Which can happen since while everyone posts in English on this site, not everyone speaks the same English), or it seems like there's an error in logic somewhere (Whether in yours or in mine)? Or, the fact that there's a possibility that I may actually agree with you guys on some subjects (Because, "God fobid", that people can actually AGREE on something while having widely different viewpoints on other matters), but you guys are so afraid of offending anyone (Or that it may cause a short-circuit in your view of the world, that not everything is "black and white" ) that you would rather dance around and try to avoid questions rather than just answering them?

HAVE YOU IDIOTS EVER CONSIDERED THAT FACT THAT I WANT TO BE PROVEN WRONG, for once, SO THAT I CAN ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING, because you cannot learn ANYHTING unless you encounter an error or a state of doubt, AND "BEING RIGHT" ALL THE TIME (Which I know I'm not, and I'd like someone to actually call me out when I am wrong, with facts to back it beyond just ancedotes) DOESN'T DO ANYTHING FOR ME EXCEPT MAKE ENEMIES, WASTE TIME, AND CAUSE ENTIRE THREADS TO GET SHUTDOWN BECAUSE NO ONE IS ANSWERING ANYONE'S QUESTIONS BECAUSE THE OTHER IDIOT (Whether it's you or me, even I can get bullheaded in my beliefs) IS AFRAID OF THE OTHER PERSON POSSIBLY BEING CORRECT SO THEY DANCE AROUND THE TOPIC AND POST NOTHING OF ACTUAL SUBSTANCE BEYOND JUST REPEATEDLY GOING "Look at how offensive this person. It doesn't matter whether he is right or wrong, it doesn't matter how much proof he posts. He's wrong because he's wrong because I was told that this is wrong, and that's that"?!

Actually, that reminds me of something that I asked about the other day, does anyone else find the idea troubling that we're not allowed to make mistakes and admit that you're wrong in today's world, thereby make this "perfectionist" culture, when the only way you CAN learn and improve is WHEN you make mistakes and have the audacity to admit one's own fault?



But, enough about what I want. To bring this thread back on topic, what is actually wrong with racism?

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» Transdude1996 on September 7th, 2019, 8:38am

Quote from KaoriNite
Next we'll have to start asking "was the Holocaust actually bad?"

Why not? The Russians killed 10 million people in Ukraine, the Great Leap Forward killed 45 million in under four years, and then there is the millions and millions of Africans killed because of religion or the work of a single man.
Quote from KaoriNite
and "what's wrong with rape?"

Considering what constitues as "rape" today, a lot.

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» Transdude1996 on September 26th, 2019, 11:04pm

Quote from Transdude1996
Quote from KaoriNite
Next we'll have to start asking "was the Holocaust actually bad?"

Why not? The Russians killed 10 million people in Ukraine, the Great Leap Forward killed 45 million in under four years, and then there is the millions and millions of Africans killed because of religion or the work of a single man.
Quote from KaoriNite
and "what's wrong with rape?"

Considering what constitues as "rape" today, a lot.

I would like to correct something in this post. It looks like the claim of "King Leopold II killed 10 million Africans" is an unfounded claim. Given the facts that are available, it appears that Leopold, and his men, had a minimal effect on the killings and mutilations taking place in the Congo. In fact, it appears that much (If not, an overwhelming amount) of the murders and mutilations were carried out by the natives, themselves (With the Belgium government eventually holding Leopold as the responsible party for those atrocities the natives committed), and much of the narrative is skewed by out-of-context documentation that fails to mention the occurrence of the Congo Arab War.

Just thought that people would like to know.

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» KaoriNite on September 7th, 2019, 7:59am

I think at a certain point you have to stop cutting people slack by assuming all racism in other cultures is unintentional or due to a lack of cultural understanding. It's easy to think "well they probably don't realize why that is so offensive". But I feel like with the world more connected than ever and more cultures meeting and exchanging, the issue of stereotypical and racist portrayals have already been raised. I think of the example of blackface in Korean comedy sketches. International communities have pointed out time and again that these blackface sketches are offensive. And at the time, that particular show will apologize and say that they weren't aware, and then later on a different show will do a blackface sketch. I think it's just a lack of giving a sh*t. In Korea and Japan where the societies are largely homogeneous, they don't have to care if they are offending a group of people who represent a very small minority in their own country.

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» zarlan on September 7th, 2019, 9:09pm

Quote from KaoriNite
I think at a certain point you have to stop cutting people slack by assuming all racism in other cultures is unintentional or due to a lack of cultural understanding.

Indeed. I can forgive Mr.Popo being drawn exactly like an old racist caricature, at the time he was made ...but I wouldn't tolerate it, if someone did that now.
Minor ignorant stuff, I just tolerate (should be pointed out, but...)
Bigger stuff, like Mr.Popo or, even worse, blackface, I think absolutely has to be criticised, even if initially forgiven as ignorance
...but as it gets pointed out, the defence of ignorance becomes less and less tenable.

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» train93 on September 7th, 2019, 10:30am

It's just as bad. The fact that people tend to give it a pass because it's a "different culture" is even worse. There's nothing cultural in being racist. Racism is ignorance, culture would be the opposite of it.

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» Transdude1996 on September 7th, 2019, 10:55am

Quote from train93
Racism is ignorance, culture would be the opposite of it.

I thought "racism" was defined as "the acknowledgement one's ancestral descent and/or skin color". That's why I asked "WHY is it a bad thing?"

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» train93 on September 8th, 2019, 11:01pm

Quote from Transdude1996
I thought "racism" was defined as "the acknowledgement one's ancestral descent and/or skin color". That's why I asked "WHY is it a bad thing?"

You thought wrong, then. If you had picked up a dictionary once in your entire life, you would have known that.

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» Transdude1996 on September 9th, 2019, 4:06am

Quote from train93
You thought wrong, then. If you had picked up a dictionary once in your entire life, you would have known that.

One problem: The History and Dictionary Meaning of Racism
Quote from Merriam-Webster
Racism appears to be a word of recent origin, with no citations currently known that would suggest the word was in use prior to the early 20th century. But the fact that the word is fairly new does not prove that the concept of racism did not exist in the distant past. Things may have words to describe them before they exist (spaceship, for instance, has been in use since the 19th century, well before the rocket-fired vessels were invented), and things may exist for a considerable time before they are given names (t-shirt does not appear in print until the 20th century, although the article of clothing existed prior to 1900).

Dictionaries are often treated as the final arbiter in arguments over a word’s meaning, but they are not always well suited for settling disputes. The lexicographer’s role is to explain how words are (or have been) actually used, not how some may feel that they should be used, and they say nothing about the intrinsic nature of the thing named by a word, much less the significance it may have for individuals. When discussing concepts like racism, therefore, it is prudent to recognize that quoting from a dictionary is unlikely to either mollify or persuade the person with whom one is arguing.

So, that avenue lead nowhere. Anyone know what word was originally used to describe what everyone is so...terrified of just by hearing the mere mention of it?

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» cecropiamoth on September 7th, 2019, 5:41pm

I'm not bothered at all by any depiction of any race, including my own, that appears in manga.

Don't export the race struggle currently present in the USA to another country that knows little or nothing of it because Japan is populated essentially by only one race. Occasional unflattering portrayals of other races of the world that appear in their light media, including manga, are just manifestations of stuff that to them is exotic and far away.

People who are going to consume other nations' media, and enjoy it, need to learn a certain degree of cosmopolitanism. Otherwise they'll never really enjoy much, and can never hope to learn the reality of Japan in particular, a very different society from that of the USA.

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» zarlan on September 7th, 2019, 9:27pm

Quote from cecropiamoth
Don't export the race struggle currently present in the USA to another country

Racism in manga, is Japanese people expressing Japanese racism
...and them exporting their racism, to other countries.

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» dreamer00013 on September 7th, 2019, 6:47pm

Interesting topic. I never really noticed any racism - besides the dumb stereotypes like the air-headed flashy American and such - but then again I don't take that seriously. If it's overdone, it gets annoying. And I'm from a culture that (mostly) frowns upon racism.
Frankly, I've got a bigger problem with homophobia and sexism. That ticks me off a lot more than racism ever could, to be honest. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter why you are discriminated against - be it gender, sexuality, age, religion or race - it's all bad.

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» darkraiders on September 7th, 2019, 6:53pm

When it don't go to far, i don't really mind. Racism is part of our world after all and most likely never will go away, as such i think it's ok to have racism in story to a certain extent.

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» dreamer00013 on September 8th, 2019, 3:58am

it should not be however. While realistically people will always discriminate against each other due to dumb reasons, media should try to not show these and work against that bullshit.
If a whole media industry doesn't even try, it says a lot about the people involved. Namely, that they don't care if they hurt said minorities. And that's not okay.

But, to be honest, reality isn't quite there yet anywhere. I mean, for example, stuff that targets children and teenagers tends to be especially sexist, and probably all around the world. There's a lot of racist stuff as well. Media is made by humans, after all, and even if they should make media that's not racist oder sexist (unless to make a point or because it's relevant to the story they tell), they do, because their viewpoints and opinions transfer over. Unless, that is, they make it a point not to do that.
And that's where the whole "we should care" point lies.

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» zarlan on September 8th, 2019, 7:52pm

Quote from dreamer00013
While realistically people will always discriminate against each other due to dumb reasons, media should try to not show these and work against that bullshit.

To take the example I've mentioned before: I take it you are against movies like Shindler's List, given what you just said?
...
You can either not show racism OR work against it.
One or the other.

Having racism in manga is fine. Promoting it, celebrating it, or just showing it as normal and fine, presenting it as acceptable... That is what is wrong.

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» dreamer00013 on September 9th, 2019, 6:56am

You can work by showing racism as brutal - which movies like Shindlers list do. Or at least I think it does, haven't seen it. I could be mixing it up with another movie though, got to look it up.

There are however harmless Nazi films that are wrong for a good reason, because they show racism as something good and normal, but in this incredible subtile way you don't immediately get. It's fascinating really, in a very nasty, brutal way.

There are more ways of working against racism than the obvious ones. Just saying something is bad doesn't convince all people, after all! See this thread.
Totally agree with your statements though!

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» zarlan on September 9th, 2019, 8:10am

True, you don't have to explicitly mention or address racism, to work against it
...and just superficially presenting nazis as bad, doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't normalizing/supporting them, in some way.
Still, most ways to work against it, involves addressing it.
We appear to agree.

I recommend watching Schindler's List, BTW.
It's a good movie.

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» Transdude1996 on September 9th, 2019, 7:31pm

Quote from zarlan
...and just superficially presenting nazis as bad, doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't normalizing/supporting them, in some way.
Still, most ways to work against it, involves addressing it.
We appear to agree.

I recommend watching Schindler's List,

Wait, ANY media that presents the Nazis as bad "in name only" is supporting them, but then you go and recommend a film about a "good Nazi"? Or, is this meant to be taken tongue-in-cheek?

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» hkanz on September 8th, 2019, 10:49am

I chose ‘It's as offensive as racist content found anywhere else’ since how I feel about a racist stereotype isn’t defined by the mindset of the author and whatever cultural differences we may have. I’ve encountered almost no racism in the manga I’ve read, but sexism is pretty frequent, and the manga being based in a different country with a different culture doesn’t mean that it’s not annoying AF to read.

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» HikaruYami on September 13th, 2019, 12:55pm

This poll is worded in a very particular way so I answered in a very particular way.

If it was worded as "What do you think about racist content in manga", I would've picked "It's as offensive as racist content found anywhere else".

But the question is "How do you feel about racist content in manga", so I answered It's a little shocking, but I understand that Japanese racial humor tends to be different from the rest of the world, because I can't find myself being bothered by it in practice.

I'm pretty much a SJW type and when I see racism in the US (which is, spoiler, all the time), I'm sickened. When I see it in manga or anime, I just get a feeling that I'd want to smack the creator and be like "that's pointlessly offensive, dumbshit".

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» Transdude1996 on September 13th, 2019, 7:37pm

Quote from HikaruYami
I'm pretty much a SJW type and when I see racism in the US (which is, spoiler, all the time), I'm sickened.

Yes, we're such a racist country that we elected (And re-elected) a black man for the most powerful position on the planet just to prove how NOT "racist" we are.

What do you actually want? What's the "end game" for you baizuo?

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