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New Poll - Race/Origin
The US census is going on right now, so energizerbunny suggested we do this question. Our poll format doesn't allow for the selection of multiple answers though, so mixed race is a separate option (but if you're half Chinese, half Korean, then you're still full Asian, so we're not counting that as mixed for the purpose of this poll). And we're also not able to do follow-up questions (like expanding on the types of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origins; or which specific Asian). Feel free to comment below if you're comfortable.

You can submit poll ideas here
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: Is it worse to have had and lost or to never have had at all? (Love, family, friends, wealth, opportunity, etc.)
Choices:
Never have had at all - votes: 1033 (30.6%)
They're the same - votes: 855 (25.3%)
Have had and lost - votes: 1485 (44%)
There were 3373 total votes.
The poll ended: August 22nd 2020

The Matrix, anyone?
Posted by lambchopsil on 
August 22nd 6:03pm
Comments ( 43 )  
[ View ]  [ Add ]
Comments

» kuroipon on August 22nd, 2020, 12:50pm

Spanish origin would be a White person I think.
Hispanics and Latinos are mostly of mixed Indigenous peoples and White descent since Mexico and Central and South American countries were colonized not only by Spain but by France and Italy and other countries at varying times.

I'm not an expert though 🀷

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» shea07 on August 22nd, 2020, 1:26pm

What's considered White changes with the country and culture. There are places where Spaniards would fall in the White category, but in the American census the Hispanic category is any people relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking countries.

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» kuroipon on August 22nd, 2020, 2:04pm

I see! I am not at all American so I didn't know this about the American census. Thanks for explaining!

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» Transdude1996 on August 22nd, 2020, 2:21pm

The "American consensus" on what defines someone's "race" is honestly a mess and a joke. For example, "latino" has gone through several different revisions on what it is defined as to the point that you encounter such silliness as people like Lynda Carter (1970's Wonder Woman) being considered "white" and "latino" both at the same time, meanwhile also being one or the other depending on the time of day.

I've mostly come to the opinion of either identifying yourself by nationality, or your nation(s) of origin.

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» ForeignerChan on August 23rd, 2020, 9:27am

Quote
I've mostly come to the opinion of either identifying yourself by nationality, or your nation(s) of origin.

Must agree. Also, one's "race" says little about that person. It's culture that influences and defines one's mentality and habits, and culture has to do with one's nation and family -- that is, the environment one grew up in -- more than "race" itself.

By the way, I'm reluctant to use the word "race" because of the connotation it used to have and the historical events and misconceptions associated to it. In my sociology studies I've found out that "human groups" may be a more acceptable substitute.

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» Trimutius on August 22nd, 2020, 2:19pm

Hm not including arabs? I suppose i am mostly white...

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» kurotaito on August 22nd, 2020, 4:35pm

Yeah, it is strange, but Arabians would be counted as Asians in the United States for polling purposes.

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» hahhah42 on August 22nd, 2020, 5:57pm

Quote from kurotaito
Yeah, it is strange, but Arabians would be counted as Asians in the United States for polling purposes.

No, Arabs have historically been considered white/Caucasian for the US census and other government purposes. There was a push to add a new category of Middle Eastern/North African to the 2020 census, but it didn't succeed.

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» PZcolo on August 22nd, 2020, 4:44pm

White is not a race nor ethnic group, it's Caucasian, which basically means of European origin, which would include most Hispanics by the way unless they are mestizos, if you are going to distinguish Hispanics (descendant from Hispanic peninsula) from the rest of Europe then you have to also recognize Anglo, Saxon, Gaule, Latin and so on and so forth...
In short, the poll options don't make much sense.

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» Suxinn on August 22nd, 2020, 11:42pm

Caucasian is not an ethnic group. It is an outdated (and erroneous) way of referring to white people used back in the day when they also had such categories as "mongoloids" and "negroids". Wiki gives a decent overview of how outdated, and based on faulty science, the category was, but it somehow stuck, while the other two terms didn't.

It's also incredible inaccurate, since the "caucasian" bit refers to the Caucacus region, which includes Georgia, Armenia, Turkey, Iran, etc. People who are classified as West Asian/Middle Eastern today, and would certainly not be considered Europeans. All the countries here are extremely linguistically and culturally diverse too, so grouping them into one category also makes no sense.

While I do agree with the fact that "white" is a... finicky category, it's one actually invented/perpetuated by white Americans themselves. (See: (early) citizenship laws, which specifically codified the racial category of "white" into law -- yes, they literally used the word "white person" to refer to people who were eligible for citizenship. And people literally sued for the chance to be considered "white" under the law, with some winning and others losing.) And, well, since it's the U.S. census being referenced, that's what's being used.

Anyway, I'm Chinese (Han Chinese, to be exact). So I've never had the head-scratching moments a lot of my peers has had filling out these census categories, since us Chinese folks are pretty firmly in the "Asian" category in this case.

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» residentgrigo on August 22nd, 2020, 11:44pm

Two or more races. Aka Afro-Russian.
It's not that hard folks. Like, what are you even doing?

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» Otakuch on August 23rd, 2020, 12:50am

Dad is georgian, mom is turkish. Dude what am I?

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» residentgrigo on August 24th, 2020, 9:23pm

Georgian = Caucasian race. Turkish = Turk. You are a Caucasian Turk. And now for the kicker:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_of_the_Caucasus_in_ Turkey
Leads to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgians_in_Turkey

This was 2 minutes with wiki. This can be done with all of you. No matter how rare a Pokemon you all think you are. Our choices may be middling but there is a distinction for every variable.

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» Axatema on August 23rd, 2020, 3:48am

Honestly, not sure what the purpose of this poll is outside of the US context. It demonstrates just how one specific country sees the world and its people.

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» mallika23 on August 24th, 2020, 11:36am

I agree.
I think people around the world are hybrid by now, that dividing people into races are quite difficult..
I choose not to fill this poll because it seems it use the US policy, and I'm not from there. πŸ˜…

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» calstine on August 23rd, 2020, 6:07am

I see that once again "Asian" has been included in the Anglosphere-Approved sense of "East/Southeast Asian," even though South Asians (Indians, who're South Asians, make up over 1/7th of the world population, just fyi) and Central Asians are completely different races. Nice.

Anyway! I picked some other race (South Asian).

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» KaoriNite on August 23rd, 2020, 9:51am

I'm black, but I just want to say that this poll shows how messy the concept of race is. How Americans define race has changed over time and will continue to change (for example Hispanic/Latino isn't considered a race anymore on the census, but an ethnicity). Race is a social construct so the types of races will vary depending on the country/society.

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» PZcolo on August 24th, 2020, 2:59am

I'm out of my depth here so I can't insist on whether white or Caucasian is accurate, wikipedia is not a reliable source of info and I'm not sure what organism regulates this kind of definitions. In layman terms, in dictionaries, both refer to "European origin" in any case so it's kind of a moot point. Still, even in the article of wikipedia if you delve a little deeper you'll find that the article being referenced for why Caucasian is an outdated term doesn't propose white as the alternative either.

I do think thou that the color of the skin is hardly indicative of one's ancestry or race in this modern world. I'm Argentine, I have white skin and am a descendant from Spaniards 3/4 and Polish 1/4 yet according to the options I'm not white, also, latino is basically either descendant of Spaniards, thus (mostly) white or a mix of indigenous and Spaniard, thus mestizo or mixed.

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» zarlan on August 25th, 2020, 4:57pm

Quote from PZcolo
I do think thou that the color of the skin is hardly indicative of one's ancestry or race in this modern world..

The colour of ones skin is hardly indicative of ones ancestry, but it most certainly IS indicative of ones, so-called, race. (if you think that isn't logical... since when does "race" have anything to do with logic?)

The terms white, black, and brown, refer to skin colour and skin colour alone. Nothing more, nothing less.
Anything aside from your skin colour, has no bearing on whether you count as white/black/brown.
(I dunno about the, now thankfully rarely used, terms red and yellow, however... I don't really get the connection to skin colour, in those cases. Especially yellow. I don't see how the skin of East Asians, is any different to that of white people, much less how it is anywhere close to yellow)

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» Wefa on August 24th, 2020, 9:11am

This may sound silly but I'm confused. Say are Russians considered white or asian? Are Sudanese Arab or black? Someone else mentioned that Arabs are classified under white so if Sudanese people are considered Arab then they are white? Man I'm just confusing myself.

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» Otakuch on August 24th, 2020, 10:08am

Yeah, this poll sucks

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» Masae on August 24th, 2020, 3:46pm

I'm an American Indian, or as we prefer, First Nation or Aboriginal. Trying to phase out the "Indian" part since we're not from India! I'm half Iroquois, half Ojibwe.

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» Otakuch on August 24th, 2020, 11:56pm

Thanks for illuminating me.

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» kousora on August 25th, 2020, 11:15am

I'm shook there is no Arab in the poll, but since it's apparently from an American census it makes sense.

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» Li7hium on August 25th, 2020, 3:58pm

Human race... curious enough I don't find that option available...

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» zarlan on August 25th, 2020, 4:45pm

I'll have to agree with most people, in stating that this poll is really badly done.
(setting aside the fact that there are no separate human races. Not any extant, anyway, now that the Neanderthals are gone. The social construct of "race", does exist, so...)

"Asian" is deeply absurd, as it includes Middle Easterners, Indians, Mongols, Russians, East Asians...
Various peoples who are of wildly different "races". (it's especially ironic, given the topic of the site, that East Asians don't have a real option)

The notion that Spanish people aren't just part of "white", is purely an American notion. One which makes absolutely no sense. Sure, people who have mixed heritage, of Spanish and Native American, are generally not altogether "white" but... Hispanic covers anyone with Spanish heritage, including people in Spain.

No Middle Eastern. (the Middle East covers parts of Africa, parts of Asia ...and part of Europe, if you count Turkey as part of Europe)
...and no, no one actually counts them as white, no matter what the rules of some US thing says, purely on paper (no one can honestly claim, that America views Middle Easterners as white)
...and no, not all Middle Easterners are Arabs!
Persian, Kurds, Turks, Armenians, Assyrians and many more, are absolutely not Arabs, and almost none of them speak a language that is even even in the same language tree, as Arabic! (it may surprise many to know, that e.g. Armenian, Persian, and Kurdish are all Indo-European. Turkish is )

...and then there is the term African American, used for black people.
If you want to show that Americans have a tendency of thinking that they are the whole world, that they only think of the US and are completely ignorant (and apathetic) about the rest of the world, one good thing to point to, is the term "African American". It makes absolutely no sense, and is completely inconsistent/incoherent.
Elon Musk (who isn't black, nor, AFAIK, any black ancestry) is a citizen of America, from Africa. (South Africa, specifically)
Is he African American? Why wouldn't he be?
Nelson Mandela was black. Was he African American? He wasn't American, in the least.
Australian Aborigines and natives of the other islands nearby (New Guinea, Fiji, Indonesia) are black. Do they count as African American (hint: They are not African, nor American)

If anyone from Africa or of an Indigenous people of Oceania (or of such heritage) goes to America as a tourist (or if a picture of them is shown to an American), they will be referred to as African American ...and if Americans travel abroad, and see a black person, some of them will (at least occasionally) refer to them as African American.
Does that make sense?
(this reminds me of how someone complained about a "white" actor getting the role of an African character in a film. The actor was Egyptian. The character was Egyptian. African =ΜΈ black. Black skin in Africa, is more of a sub-Saharan thing. Egyptians are not black, much as the rest of North Africa. They're Middle Easterners, and have much the same skin colour as anyone else in the Middle East)

Edit: Oh yeah, what about Inuits?

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» Transdude1996 on August 25th, 2020, 5:16pm

Quote from zarlan
setting aside the fact that there are no separate human races
...
Now watch as I list off several dozen of the different human species, cultures, and groups (A.K.A. the human RACEs) that are known to exist on this planet.


https://archive.vn/qCZIT
Quote from Merriam-Webster
1 : a breeding stock of animals
2a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock
b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics
3a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species
also : a taxonomic category (such as a subspecies) representing such a group
b : BREED
c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits
4 obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition
5 : distinctive flavor, taste, or strength

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» zarlan on August 25th, 2020, 5:24pm

@Transdude1996
Though this just repeats what already I said, in that comment, I'll just try to clarify:
There are so-called races of humans, in terms of social constructs, based on nothing particularly rational/logical or sensible.
Biologically, however, there are no separate races.
Back when the Neanderthals, or even Erectus were around, you could maybe legitimately talk about different races, but nowadays...
This is very well established scientific consensus, along the lines of the Earth being (approximately) a sphere.

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» Transdude1996 on August 25th, 2020, 5:48pm

Quote from zarlan
There are so-called races of humans, in terms of social constructs, based on nothing particularly rational/logical or sensible.
Biologically, however, there are no separate races.

I fucking dare you to say that to someone living in or immigrating from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, or practically any Asian country.

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» zarlan on August 25th, 2020, 8:57pm

I don't see shy I would care where someone is from, when stating that clearly obvious and indisputable fact, but...
What's the thing about Asian countries (such as Iraq, Syria, Iran, India, Kazakhstan, Mongolia etc), in regards to that, that you're referring to?

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» monkry on August 25th, 2020, 11:00pm

The poll includes specific "Alaska Native" and "Native Hawaiian",
but Indian, Chinese, Arab, and South Asia...
all strikingly different, but all included in "Asian"? xD

Maybe the question title for poll should be more specific, like, (for US citizen only) or (based on US census) as stated in News. Poll is in left bar and displayed whatever page we're in, but not everybody entering MU from main page/News

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» Transdude1996 on August 25th, 2020, 11:53pm

Quote from zarlan
What's the thing about Asian countries (such as Iraq, Syria, Iran, India, Kazakhstan, Mongolia etc), in regards to that, that you're referring to?

Can't comment much about most of the Middle East as I know little about it after the fall of Rome (With some highlights of the Turks kicking off the Crusades by declaring themselves "honorary Semites" and making Islam even more radicalized than it already was), aside from the fact that most of anything for the past 70 years has been the fault/involvement of the U.S., Europe, and Russia. In regards to India, all I know that they want the Chinese to the East and the Pakistanis (Who used to be Indian) to the West to leave them alone. In regards to Kazakstan, you have hilarious instances where Russia outlawed the highly debated Book of Veles due to it's implications of Slav ancestry (Which was already a touchy subject for them, but Soviet propaganda ramped that shit into the extreme) having to do with the Kazaks. And, with Mongolia, despite being the literal fathers of Modern China (IIRC, the remainder of true pure Chinamen are in pockets along the Southern parts of the country, or fled to one of the other "Chinese" dominated states; majority of the current population in Red China are a mixture of every single society that lorded over the Chinese territory for the past several centuries), they want them to fuck off, as well, in the worst way possible.

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» zarlan on August 29th, 2020, 10:40am

@Transdude1996 Sorry for the late reply, but... Why didn't you answer my question?

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» Joese on August 26th, 2020, 5:41am

This poll is quite specific to the US ,I would suggest this poll instead for the next time .The names are continents /regions and they don't leave as much controversy :

What is your dominant heritage/origin?
European/Caucasian
African
Asian
Native American (north/south/islands)
Oceania /Polynesian native
Middle Eastern
Hispanic
Two or more races (i.e., mixed)

It might be a bit messier but it includes most heritages .I only included the distinction of Hispanic since most Americans are mixed but identify themselves with that instead of mixed or their dominant heritage .It's true you could also include the India subcontinent , divide Africa in north/south ...

Btw: just as Hispanic originally meant "form the Iberian Peninsula" and Latino refers to "something of Latin origin"(Ex.: Italy ,France,Spain,Greece...) but many Americans find it strange to refer to European things as latin. Similar to how many US people call Spanish almost anyone from America instad of the people from Spain and instead created the word "spaniard" in order to distinguish.
πŸ™‚

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» zarlan on August 29th, 2020, 10:45am

@Joese Latino comes from latinoamerican. Also whilst your list includes most heritages (but not inuits), it is very wrong, as it puts multitudes of wildly different ethnicities under the same options. Far from uncontroversial.

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» kuchra on August 26th, 2020, 2:31pm

I have all kinds of races. In my country I'm considered white, but that's only because everyone else is darker.

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» energizerbunny on August 27th, 2020, 6:57am

Thanks for humoring me, lambchopsil! It's so cool to see how manga is universal and share-able with all. <3

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» hkanz on August 27th, 2020, 8:33pm

It warms my heart to see people of all races standing united in their ardent belief that the U.S. census is poorly written. :’) I’m white.

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» Transdude1996 on September 4th, 2020, 6:42pm

And, this just happened.

Quote from Russell Vought, Director of the Office of Management and Budget
It has come to the President's attention that Executive Branch agencies have spent millions of taxpayer dollars to date "training" government workers to believe divisive, anti-American propaganda.

For example, according to press reports, employees across the Executive Branch have been required to attend trainings where they are told that "virtually all White people contribute to racism" or where they are required to say that they "benefit from racism." According to press reports, in some cases these training have further claimed that there is racism embedded in the belief that America is the land of opportunity or the belief that the most qualified person should receive a job.

These types of "trainings" not only run counter to the fundamental beliefs for which our Nation has stood since its inception, but they also engender division and resentment within the Federal workforce. We can be proud that as an employer, the Federal government has employees of all races, ethnicities, and religions. We can be proud that Americans from all over the country seek to join our workforce and dedicate themselves to public service. We can be proud of our continued efforts to welcome all individuals who seek to serve their fellow Americans as Federal employees. However, we cannot accept our employees receiving training that seeks to undercut our core values as Americans and drive division within our workforce.

The President has directed me to ensure that Federal agencies cease and desist from using taxpayer dollars to fund these divisive, un-American propaganda training sessions. Accordingly, to that end, the Office of Management and Budget will shortly issue more detailed guidance on implementing the President's directive. In the meantime, all agencies are directed to begin to identify all contracts or other agency spending related to any training on "critical race theory," "white privilege," or any other training or propaganda effort that teaches or suggests either (1) that the United States is an inherently racist or evil country or (2) that any race or ethnicity is inherently racist or evil. In addition, all agencies should begin to identify all available avenues within the law to cancel any such contracts and/or to divert Federal dollars away from these un-American propaganda training sessions.

The President, and his Administration, are fully committed to the fair and equal treatment of all individuals in the United States. The President has a proven track record of standing for those whose voice has long been ignored and who have failed to benefit from all our country has to offer, and he intends to continue to support all Americans, regardless of race, religion, or creed. The divisive, false, and demeaning propaganda of the critical race theory movement is contrary to all we stand for as Americans and should have no place in the Federal government.

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» zarlan on September 5th, 2020, 2:20am

That's simply Trump being his racist self.
Twisting/breaking the truth and claiming that the clearly obvious is the opposite of what it is, and accusing others of what they aren't guilty of, but which rather he is actually guilty of himself.
Happens all time. I've grown numb to it. (not like I can do anything about it, anyway, not being an American)

Also: Why didn't you answer my question?

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» Transdude1996 on September 5th, 2020, 5:42am

Quote from zarlan
That's simply Trump being his racist self.

How is Trump being racist for demanding that any organization, that is even remotely tied to the government, is to have their funding pulled for showing any bias, discrimination, or favoritism towards any citizen due to their physical appearance or national origin.

Quote from zarlan
Why didn't you answer my question?

Because I did answer it.

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» zarlan on September 7th, 2020, 7:02am

Quote from Transdude1996
How is Trump being racist for /.../

You know that every word of his statement, the statement you quoted, and your statement now, is a lie.
Completely misrepresenting those they condemn, presenting false "facts", and making fallacious arguments.
Quote
Because I did answer it.

No, not in the least bit. Not in any way, shape or form.
Your "answer" was all purely irrelevant stuff, that did not, in any way, address the question.

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» Transdude1996 on September 7th, 2020, 9:18am

In response to both of your statements: HOW? Can you please quote the exact parts that are fictitious, fallacious, irrelevant, and/or disingenuous; and bring up sources explaining how and why those parts are fictitious, fallacious, irrelevant, and/or disingenuous?

Quote from Expected Strawman Responce
Oh, come on, you know why.

No, I don't. As far as I know, Trump's action is in response to the leak coming out that the companies who produce the parts for America's nuclear arsenal are spending their funds on telling the minorities in the company to shut the fuck up, sit the fuck down, hate on anyone who's "white", and you're suffering from "internalized racism" if you disagree with any of our propaganda and should be ashamed of yourself if you don't accept it as "truth".

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