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New Poll - Death Penalty Alternative
This week's poll was suggested by jacob66. If you believe in the death penalty, would you accept an alternative personality altering procedure in lieu of actual death?

You can submit poll ideas here
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: Do you think time travel (to the past) will ever be possible?
Choices:
No - votes: 2792 (75.8%)
Yes - votes: 892 (24.2%)
There were 3684 total votes.
The poll ended: May 1st 2021

Now I'm curious if people think FTL is possible
Posted by lambchopsil on 
May 1st 6:29pm
Comments ( 19 )  
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Comments

» kuchra on May 1st, 2021, 11:47am

That sounds a lot less humane than just killing someone. I imagine most people would prefer death, I know I would.

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» Shippou_Incognito on May 1st, 2021, 12:50pm

I voted for no, but for the sake of discussion:

If forcing someone to do a "personality" altering procedure, might I suggest that they'd be forced to do high school & college all over again? After all, these two institutions are essential in civilization's coexistence habits.

Seriously.

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» Jooles on May 1st, 2021, 1:19pm

Always said that the best punishment would be to insert empathy in these fucks. To let them go through the rest of their lives in agony is far more fulfilling (in multiple ways) than just letting them get "nothing" for what they've done.

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» scarletrhodelia on May 1st, 2021, 1:23pm

This topic was explored in a Babylon 5 episode, Season 3 Episode 4, "Passing Through Gethsemane." A serial killer who was sentenced to "death of personality" starts to remember his past. It was very moving.

BTW, I voted "I don't believe in the death penalty."

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» Sinjid on May 1st, 2021, 2:40pm

No and no to the death penalty. Not because I don't believe in it however. Some crimes should be punishable by death in my opinion but lets be real here... how many of you actual trust the system to not be at least partially corrupt, let alone competent in its judgement?

Better wrongfully incarcerated than executed even though both are abhorrent.

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» Transdude1996 on May 1st, 2021, 2:40pm

Forgo the death penalty in exchange for turning the murderer into a vegetable? Uh, no. I ALREADY have a problem with the fact that the justice system is designed around essentially rewarding criminals, by taxing the public, with what boils down to an all-expenses-paid vacation with room and board all paid for.

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» residentgrigo on May 1st, 2021, 4:13pm

I don't believe in the death penalty. Life imprisonment is a worse punishment and the justice system is too flawed to be allowed to put people down.

A "humane lobotomy"? So many superhero stories about that. Batman´s rogues after Superman cut pieces out of their brains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7owONdf3KU

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» ZiBaXn on May 1st, 2021, 6:16pm

Not for nothing but what crime could a person commit in which the punishment is "oh we're going to erase your personality"? Who is that punishing? We aren't born with several personalities that we can pick or choose from, so no one is truly attached to their own personality. For me it's not a matter of if I support the death penalty (which I'm not above) or not, but I don't consider that a punishment for a crime. Say that this person was a serial X (murder, rapist, etc), does a change in personality sound like justice for the victim or loved ones of the victim? For me, no.

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» docdesanta on May 1st, 2021, 8:50pm

Why would anyone think that a lobotomy would be a reasonable method of punishment for criminal behavior? There are obviously arguments for and against the death penalty, but that hardly seems like a viable alternative.

Criminals should ideally be rehabilitated and reintegrated. Therapy, psychiatric care and medication maybe, vocational courses, etc. Those are certainly "personality altering", albeit not as immediate. For cases deemed irredeemable (whatever that entails), I still think it's best to isolate them. Not driving a fckn rod through their brain, wherein you're probably looking at aftertreatment care for your likely now incapacitated convict.

Anyone else with other examples of a drastic "personality altering procedure"? All I can think of is the one from A Clockwork Orange, fictional of course.

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» Transdude1996 on May 1st, 2021, 9:21pm

Quote from docdesanta
Anyone else with other examples of a drastic "personality altering procedure"? All I can think of is the one from A Clockwork Orange, fictional of course.

Shock therapy is a classic and still practiced, however it is poorly researched and the research that does exist only shows a 50% rate of "success" (Whatever the Hell that means).

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» yuriym21 on May 2nd, 2021, 5:39am

No. If the crime is horrible then anything but a death sentence is injustice to the victim and their family. Best thing to do is end the criminal's life. Also, forcibly changing someone's personality is downright nasty.

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» HikaruYami on May 3rd, 2021, 12:49pm

I voted yes but it comes with some stipulations:

1) not with today's science. We have nothing that would conceivably function for this at all, but future alterations of brain chemicals (definitely NOT a lobotomy as in the example) could possibly work and be comparatively humane. To me. Something that would only take away a person's malice, essentially, could hypothetically exist.

2) not with today's justice system. I actual do believe in the death penalty but not given what we have today. The standard of evidence used in court proceedings today, "beyond a reasonable doubt", is frankly far too lax for something as final as death. Further, the death penalty can apply even in cases where a life wasn't taken, which is itself asinine.... The death penalty (or this hypothetical penalty) should only apply in cases where more than 1 life was successfully taken, and when a new standard of evidence, "beyond a shadow of a doubt", is in place. No amount of witness testimony should be enough for this. You need witnesses in addition to video in addition to any potential alibi being completed shattered. Juries nowadays will convict on "well I feel like it makes the most sense that...". If even a single person on the jury is even a tiny bit unsure about whether the defendant did something worthy of execution, then the entire verdict must be downgraded from death penalty to life in prison.

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» mattai on May 3rd, 2021, 9:16pm

Definitely not. The death penalty is already phased out in most sane developed countries. A forced personality-altering brain surgery would only be more expensive and more morally dubious.

Especially if it's anything like a lobotomy.

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» alidan on May 4th, 2021, 2:21am

you just make someone at best a husk that needs to be constantly cared for.

@residentgrigo
I believe in the death penalty, however not in its current form. We have hd video, we have cameras everywhere, and shy of a serial killer confessing with proof, I think that unless we can positively id, track, and say who did what, death penalty is not applicable. however, if we can, then an express trip to death is warranted.

the system would be relatively easy, a 20~mp camera at the entrance getting a full body shot, it takes a pic every time someone comes in, and high res video will be able to track everyone who comes in passed that for id purposes.

if you have to have witnesses, or any flawed evidence, you are only applicable for life.

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» blackluna on May 4th, 2021, 12:21pm

I'd put that under "cruel and unusual punishment." The death penalty is much more humane, at least as it is usually carried out.

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» Joese on May 5th, 2021, 1:05pm

I vote "I don't believe in the death penalty". This is a very interesting question for a forum ,but the question (as written) is way too loaded . Psychiatric patients and criminals are two different things (law doesn't put it's full weight on psychiatric disorder patients for very good reasons...and it's also another very interesting topic ).

Saying crime is a disease or can be "cured" is going on to murky waters. That train of thought can make simple minded people generalise the reasoning and thing anything out of norm is a sickness that can/should be cured (different political views ,homo/transexuality,...)

There are quite many doctors that are completely ok with branding anything as a sickness. This can also derail into thinking that anyone who willingly has these thoughts si a criminal (in some not so extreme cases lead to political/legal persecution).

Lobotomy is still a viable procedure in some places and there are also many studies certifying it. So the question is a bit charged if you're thinking in the cinematic portrayals of it,since the objective of it isn't to leave you handicapped or vegetable.

For example electroshock is an effective standard procedure almost everywhere in certain cases but I bet the if you're thinking on it's cinematic portrayals you'd be shocked😛 to hear this.

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» HikaruYami on May 6th, 2021, 2:30pm

Oh, on my first reply I actually missed this remark from lambchopsil:

Quote
Now I'm curious if people think FTL is possible


We've actually proven a theoretical FTL travel already. It's not literally FTL in the direct sense (the sense that would cause relativity to imply time travel), but it's a spatial shrinking & expanding in front of and behind you as you move forward, that with enough energy (iirc the numbers were that you'd need as much energy as is stored in the entire mass of jupiter to allow a single human to travel this way) you could end up in such a location as if you were traveling faster than light.

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» mallika23 on May 8th, 2021, 4:43am

I've read somewhere that my country didn't really practice death penalty, even if the law to execute it exist. Personally, I don't really mind if death sentence for corruptors is executed as a set of example (Usually corruptors in my country only have a few years in jail--not to mention that jails for corruptors in my country is as nice as a hotel suite room--because they are elites who have money and authority).

Since death sentence never really practiced in my country, I don't know how effective this altering personality punishment is. However, I feel like even strong hypnotism is like a bubble that could popped up any time, means its effect might not be permanent. And even if these criminals became the law-abiding citizens and such, there are external factors that should be considered, like where would they be placed after altering their personality? In case for corruptors, would they be put back in their previous post, a new post, or would they be trashed in society? How about the surveillence on these criminals to make sure they're not doing the same thing again, or that their personality still altered?

Considering that the law is often on the sides for the elites who owns money and power, I'm not sure if the system to alter personality in exchange for death punishment would not be corrupted too. Even now, the system is already as corrupt as it is.

So, my answer so far is "No".

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» hkanz on May 8th, 2021, 10:28am

I don’t believe in the death penalty, but a lobotomy seems more immoral, no? Even if there were some future technology where a person’s personality could be modified without negative side effects, I don’t know how we could invent it without incredibly immoral experiments that would never be approved by an ethics board. Maybe that scientist with the twins and CRISPR will give it a try, lol.

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