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New Poll - Digital Layout 2
This week's poll (suggested by Nekomikoto) is similar to last week's, but it's more about how you like to read a series than how the panels are laid out.

You can submit poll ideas here
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: Preferred layout for digital chapters
Choices:
Vertical panels (like with many webtoons) - votes: 1023 (36.9%)
Regular pages (like with almost all manga scanlations) - votes: 1749 (63.1%)
There were 2772 total votes.
The poll ended: October 9th 2021

I was actually expecting the results to be more even due to the popularity of webcomics
Posted by lambchopsil on 
October 10th 6:53am
Comments ( 18 )  
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Comments

» Ceiye on October 10th, 2021, 12:03am

I'm guessing there's going to be a lot of continuous vertical scroll despite it messing with the traditional panel flow that most people voted for last poll. And that's valid. That was my answer too.

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» kaloo on October 10th, 2021, 12:21am

I really hate the vertical scroll for things with traditional page layouts.

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» HikaruYami on October 10th, 2021, 6:23pm

Quote
I'm guessing there's going to be a lot of continuous vertical scroll despite it messing with the traditional panel flow that most people voted for last poll. And that's valid. That was my answer too.


Honestly this result makes no sense to me.

Vertical scrolling literally fucks up one's experience of cleverly laid-out panels

Are most people reading on mobile? Or on tiny, pathetic monitors?

Because my computer monitor is perfect for reading chapters according to #2, Display two pages at a time, click to go to next pages. This is getting so few votes that I suspect some people are imagining mouse clicks, but what I'm generally clicking is the right or left arrow key. And the whole pages are displayed at once, so there's no need for any scrolling within a page (because I'm not on some shitty mobile reader lol)

This is particularly important for double-page spreads. On the rare occasion that double-page spreads aren't forcibly merged together as a "single page", digitally (note: the mangaplus reader is the only offender I know of this), it's important to be displaying two pages at once so the double-page spreads will be correctly shown as one screen covering the monitor.

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» zarlan on October 10th, 2021, 8:39pm

Quote from HikaruYami
Vertical scrolling literally fucks up one's experience of cleverly laid-out panels

I fail to see, how it would/does.
Quote
Are most people reading on mobile? Or on tiny, pathetic monitors?

Only rarely, do I read on a screen that is too small to avoid scrolling within the page.
I mainly read on my computer, with my e-reader coming in second. (though I suppose it's better to read on the e-reader, except when there is any colour, mind you [it's a greyscale e-ink display, after all] …but I've got to prepare manga into proper zip-files for reading on it, first, so…)

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» Transdude1996 on October 10th, 2021, 9:18pm

Quote from zarlan
Quote from HikaruYami
Vertical scrolling literally fucks up one's experience of cleverly laid-out panels

I fail to see, how it would/does.

The only time I've had a serious problem with vertical scrolling was when it came to double-page spreads.

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» Alimeru on October 10th, 2021, 9:47pm

Quote from HikaruYami
Are most people reading on mobile? Or on tiny, pathetic monitors?

I mostly read on a 1080p laptop and keep mangadex settings at a width zoom of ~900 pixels or larger. If I tried to configure the reader such that a whole page would fit on my screen, I would be causing myself undue eye strain because some of the text would be too small.

Although if I had a bigger monitor, I would probably give the double page setup a try, it seems like a nice way to emulate the physical manga reading experience.

Quote from zarlan
Quote from HikaruYami
Vertical scrolling literally fucks up one's experience of cleverly laid-out panels

I fail to see, how it would/does.

I also fail to see what you mean. Are you trying to say it ruins the flow of the story? Because I've never had any issues with this besides with MangaPlus as you've already mentioned.

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» HikaruYami on October 11th, 2021, 1:20pm

This response goes for both Alimeru and zarlan:

When you read by scrolling vertically, you see part of a panel before the rest of a panel. If there's a dialogue bubble at the top, one is quite often inclined to start reading that panel before seeing it all in the screen at once. And don't just say "well actually I scroll so far down in advance that by the time I'm reading any part of a panel, the next few panels are already fully visible", because that actually leads to a worse problem, that you can actually spoil yourself with imagery on the next page before you finish reading the current page. So many great manga-ka use layouts like this, where a surprise visual is right after a page turn, and if you see it before you read the context for it on the previous panel, then your appreciation of the lead-in simply tanks because you're already thinking about the reveal. Therefore, under-scrolling is definitely better than over-scrolling in this case, but as I already covered, under-scrolling still alters your experience.

So, I'm not claiming that this is some fundamentally huge deal--I may have worded it too strongly by saying "fucks up" in my previous comment (though that is how I feel, lol)--because once you've processed the entire panel, your brain will easily correct your understanding of the context for the dialogue bubble you started reading too early. However, in that brief instance, you were processing the story/dialogue without that context, and that does actually impact (and in my view, "fucks up", compared to original author intent) how you experience their panelling. So it's not "a huge deal" but it is still a deal, and that's why I can't comprehend this current poll result. If you're over-scrolling rather than underscrolling, though, it does sometimes turn into a bigger deal. Anyway, I'd expect manga readers to care a lot more about author intent than, say, anime-watchers, for instance. But apparently not, based on this poll result.

Webtoons and the like do exactly what I described in the previous thread--they fill everything with lots of whitespace and make an experience that actually is meant to be read in strictly top-to-bottom order by standard vertical scrolling and so there's no way to preemptively spoil yourself (unless you are outright skipping panels). Which personally, I also don't like (which is why I voted for regular pages in that poll, too). But if you're reading physical manga, digitally, your vertical scrolling is literally altering your experience of the story, every joke, every twist, by not making sure that you capture whole pages at once.

Thus ends my self-righteous rant 😛 For anyone who got this far, I hope you either gained a better appreciation for page layouts, or if not, I hope you one day read a manga that gives you that appreciation, because I would never, ever want to read a vertical-scrolling version of any of my favorite manga (though it doesn't really matter for more boring manga).


Quote
Although if I had a bigger monitor, I would probably give the double page setup a try, it seems like a nice way to emulate the physical manga reading experience.

That's exactly what it does, yes. Print manga is literally designed so that you'll experience the punch of a page layout all at once, and so two pages at a time gives you exactly that experience. I do read manga on my phone *sometimes*, and it sucks, but on my 4k monitor at home it's just wonderful to have it as double-page spreads with no scrolling.

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» zarlan on October 12th, 2021, 3:50am

Quote from HikaruYami
you see part of a panel before the rest of a panel.

Eh… No.
Sure, the top part of a panel may be visible, whilst the rest of it isn't, whilst scrolling, but…
So what? How is that an issue?
Quote
If there's a dialogue bubble at the top, one is quite often inclined to start reading that panel before seeing it all in the screen at once.

No.
Quote
so there's no way to preemptively spoil yourself (unless you are outright skipping panels)

You are claiming here that people are "often inclined to" outright skip panels.
In both regular manga, and webtoons.

You may be, but…
Quote
I hope you either gained a better appreciation for page layouts

You claim it is relevant to page layouts, but…
Quote
I do read manga on my phone *sometimes*, and it sucks

Aside from the more book/manga-like feel of holding my e-reader (which would also apply to tablets), and the e-ink display (which is soooo much nicer! Can't handle colours, though), I agree that reading on a computer is generally the best

…but if the smartphone that is big enough to show a whole page at once, there's generally no problem (I can't, for the life of me, understand how people can use smartphones, instead of computers. When my computer wasn't working, and I was stuck on my smartphone… it was driving me mad! …but for reading manga…)
…except, I agree, when it comes to spreads, where you get forced to scroll.

I imagine spreads could be fine on a tablet. Depending on the size, perhaps.
They work well enough on my e-reader, if I flip them on the side.

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» Nekore on October 12th, 2021, 7:43pm

Classically, too many 1-2 page displays take time to load between pages, old readers imbedded on translators groups were for long the only 1 page display that started loading the next pages before you read them.

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» Alimeru on October 10th, 2021, 12:29am

I've always preferred the display all pages scrolling fashion since I first started reading manga. Having to click on every page to get through a chapter annoys me so much that I actively avoid scan groups that only offer page clicking on their sites (and don't upload to MD). If you want me to read on your site, offer vertical scroll or I'll seek out an aggregator, it's simple as that.

That being said, obviously I won't judge people who prefer clicking. In the end it's just a matter of preference.

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» Trimutius on October 10th, 2021, 6:01am

One page at a time... Fine with vertical too, but often mistap on those so single page is better... (And when two pages font is too small)

I usually read on tablet if you wander why i talk about tapping...

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» KaoriNite on October 10th, 2021, 7:41am

I prefer all pages displayed vertically. It's faster and more convenient

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» Transdude1996 on October 10th, 2021, 7:51am

I operate both with the vertical scrolling and the one page at a time.

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» zarlan on October 10th, 2021, 8:19pm

I hate the "two pages at a time" option (except when you have a 2-page spread, where you absolutely should see both pages at once), but the vertical scroll…
It's nothing like the long "webtoon" strips. (I will never understand the name "webtoon". They're webcomics! "Webtoon" would make sense, as a term for internet cartoon, but for a webcomic…)
It's just a different way to get to the next page.

My answer is: It depends.

If I'm reading online, I might go with one page at a time, or vertical scroll, depending on the site. (for some sites I prefer one, for others I prefer the other. Dunno why)
If I'm reading on my computer (the best option), I read one page at a time, with my image viewer (not that I have a vertical scroll option, anyway, but I wouldn't use it even if I did)

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» Fakasuyuru on October 10th, 2021, 11:28pm

Some people mentioned about preferring reading on computer than on phone/tablet, but I’m the opposite lol. I know it’s a bad habit, but I always like reading any book (manga, novel, etc.) while lying down ever since I was a kid. So, when I started reading e-books, I always prefer reading with something that I can lie down with.

That being said, I don’t mind either the clicking mode or the scrolling mode. The only small problem that usually bothered me a little was when I tried clicking the next page and it wasn’t loaded up yet. With scroll mode, I can usually check whether all the pages are already loaded up before I start reading.

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» VawX on October 11th, 2021, 2:46am

I guess I misunderstood last week question so here's last week answer mmm...

It really depends on the screen and the amount and size of text (especially smaller ones) mmm...

- For smartphone screen I always use regular pages mmm...
- For manga with some text especially smaller one, I prefer using vertical panels, fit width mmm...
- For manga with very little or big text, regular single page, fit to screen mmm...

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» vigorousjammer on October 11th, 2021, 1:53pm

I'm honestly shocked at how few people use two-page mode.
This is the ONLY way I read manga.
Manga is printed in book-form, where two pages are visible at all times, so reading it this way preserves the original format, making the experience most similar to how it would be when reading a physical book.

It preserves authorial intent, decreases the number of times I have to hit "next page", and retains better balance with page sizes (essentially what I mean by that is... two-page spreads are less jarring when they appear).

There's also some clever things that authors do with the two-page format, such as:
- similar looking panel in the same place after you turn the page (in single-page mode you'd have to hit "next page" twice, which would ruin the "overlapping" effect)
- Even if two pages are not a spread, sometimes they can have elements that work together, perhaps thematically. (An example would be two characters in separate panels on left-hand & right-hand pages, but they appear to be staring at each other.)

There's probably more that I can't think of right now, either... but the point is that by changing the format, you may end up changing some of what the author intended.
Whether I'm reading on a tablet or a computer monitor, I'd like to retain the original experience of reading the physical book as much as possible, and two-page format is the only way I can truly do that.

Of course, if I did read webcomics that were created with the vertical scroll format in-mind, I would read them using vertical scroll. But I don't read them at all, since I generally haven't enjoyed any of the ones that I've read in the past... so my answer remains "two-page format".

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» psirit on October 13th, 2021, 1:16pm

thank you for typing out my comment

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