Japanzai and Simple-Scans are seriously going overboard with their abuse of watermarking images. I personally don't think it's helping scanlators "win" against MangaFox or any of the other 'perceived' evils anymore. One of the few groups that i think watermarks in a courteous way is Soba-Scans.

Credit pages are necessary indeed. and a small unobtrusive watermark like Soba Scans is classy as heck and nicely designed. Anything that appears as a full page thing even for a split second is an insult to the art work and a distraction.

asking people to read on batoto to get ad money to buy raws or whatever goes against the "For fan, by fans, for free" rule that the great translators of yore have lived by. If you can't afford the hobby, don't do it. Asking for raw donations is alright because it's not money that's being exchanged.

And still you don't get the message they are trying to send...or not doing anything about what they are saying even if you see their problem. The problem of a group who would gladly give you more and more manga/manwha if you supported them the right way....sigh...maybe you deserve it?

Watermarks are in no way similar to SOPA/PIPA. They are more like an identifier, or branding mark. Mainly to let others know that they were the ones that scanlated that chapter (there are series scanlated by many different groups).

It does help deter some cases similar to Tazmo. Most of them aren't implying rights to the work....but to simply note that they were the ones to provide that scanlated release.

Though the groups trying to release ONLY to an online reader where they get paid for it ARE in fact bordering on rights infringement.

The main problem is that groups are experimenting to find a way similar to watermarking in order to control their releases. I recently came across one where you had to unzip the file then open in a web browser or the pages would be out of order. (Kinda stupid since all the material was ALREADY downloaded). Also watermarks that blink on/off are REALLY annoying.....especially the ones that cover 1/4 of the page making it nearly unreadable).

Again, those are just excuses. If you really wanted it you would work for it. If you can't/don't, then you have no right to complain about what the scanlators give you FOR FREE.

Or they can just stop everything and pack their bag. As long as they are releasing the scanlation, might as well be immoral or just plain ilegal. Anything that doesn't help the publisher and mangaka are all immoral. Some even wrote who they don't ant to see scanlation of their work online.

Not money whatsoever, then tell all readers site to just die then everything can follow the by fan for fan concept with no money invovle.

It's not like we want to assert ownership on our chapters.
The problem is that mangafox did it in the past. Currently they have changed their watermark and leave the credit pages in, But that was different before. They removed creditpage and their watermark at the bottom said "If you're reading this elsewhere than mangafox you're wrong" or similiar.
Because of such actions, the majority of readers thinks that mangafox is doing the actual work of the manga. They go to mangafox and request faster release.
But us, the scanlators. are not getting any help. How do you think we are going to continue if more people retire than new people come!?
We don't want to slap it into the reader's face that these are OUR chapters. We just want to convey to them that WE spend hours of our free time for them and would appreciate a bit of thanks or help.
And then to top things of, Mangafox makes a profit from it. Come on, you see the point here...

since you've already read it, the scanlation, might as well just buy the japanese copy to help the author out. Saying that you can't buy the actual manga in any way are all excuse for not buying and just wanting to read free high quality scans.

scanlation aren't to compete with publisher by releasing high quality scan too, this will only deter the reader from buying the actual book(both soft and hard copy). therefore, I fully support any form of degration on the scan itself to make it a lower quality one. this will incite leecher to contribute. Human naturally tend to want the best of the best, aka greed.

With regard the watermark, frankly anything goes as long as the scanlator doesn't said it "explicably" that they own it. Everything else is all in the grey zone, though some reader interpret it negatively.

As well, if you don't want watermarking, you should file you complaint on online reader site, it funny how they are still alive with nothing happening to them. They are the source of watermarking. Thank to them, many reader would stop going to the actual site to get the release and this can also by perceive negatively by the scanlator.
e.g., Scanlator: Why should I/we continue to scanlate when hardly anyone coming to the site. Maybe this just show not many people like this manga so we should stop. Maybe watermarking will tell the reader who did the actual work and they'll come here instead of thanking those ungrateful uploader who unload it to the reader site. Or we can just stop scanlating the manga.

As will the concept of "" is too linear/outdated to work in this scenario when it doesn't take other who make money from the fanwork into consideration.

Leecher should just be happy that nowadays it easier to grab the release than before when scanlator request contributing to forum, invites only etc... Although, to counter the aggregate site, more and more public scanlator are going semi to private just to prevent their release from entering the aggregator site. this will be a worser scenario that leecher hate when compare to this small watermarking. As well, they will request that their release not to be listed on mangaupdate (another counter measure), thus it be harder to find their existence.

you only read my last part sigh. i guess ill just do some small bullet points for you

I havent had that much of a problem with WM at all so idk why its a problem in general and from what you say everyone dislikes WM since it pulls them out their zone which is not true since im also a reader.

Your making assumptions which annoys me, at least put some/most readers, I dont like being grouped with certain people when im not part of the group.

If I want an "immersive experience" ill just read it normally by buying which I do if I really like the series.

Most of the people are just complaining about WM from A-team and Japanzai IMO cause all of other groups do it very small or very un-noticeable. But both groups release UN-WM later so I dont see the major problem with those two.

What annoyed me the most is you say there are other ways to fight NOEZ but you dont give a single suggestion, at least give an idea even if its over the top but you dont which just makes you sound like hypocrite just saying.

All in all im probably flaming you since you talk like you know what's right when there isnt really a right or wrong thing in WMing, Did i say WMing is a good/bad thing, no. It's just as long as i get to read the manga that isn't sold in my area or isnt translated I'm happy why can't other people be just happy from that? Why do they need more than that, just why can't they be happy with what they got? ( I blame capitalism/consumerism =P (jking sort of))

It's their own decision to make though. If they want the delay done then let it be. Different groups could have different reasons for it.

There's not always a clear cut reason. If they want a 24 hour wait then just wait it out.
After all......you piss a group off enough.....they WILL just stop (it happens).

Just accept it as is.

We want the readers to come our page for support, not for money,
How are we going to get any new recruits, when people just think the chapters appear magically on mangafox?

You fail to see the point of what a watermark in scanlation IS.

It's NOT a sign of property ownership. It's more like the employee ID number on a sales receipt.
THAT is what watermarks in scanlation mean.