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DMCA Notice of Copyright Infringement - Beelzebub & Bakuman
Anonymous writes: Dear Readers,

Some of you may have anticipated this development after the recent events at MangaStream, but we are sad to report that Red Hawk Scanlations has received a DMCA notice of copyright infringement from Shueisha with regard to the Bakuman and Beelzebub series. We have no desire to pick legal battles, so we have removed the series in question from our servers and will no longer be providing access to them via our site effective immediately.

However, aggregate sites will undoubtedly continue to distribute material as they please, independent of our actions here. The act of editing manga itself is not illegal, and we have no control over what is distributed on other servers. Meanwhile the Red Hawk site will continue to serve as a hub for updates and discussion as we continue to pursue our passions without engaging in the illegal distribution of these series.

In short, these series are not dropped, but they will not be found on our servers.

Sincerely,
Red Hawk Scanlations


Taken from: http://www.redhawkscans.com/showthread.php?4677-DMCA-Notice-of-Copyright-Infringement-Beelzebub-amp-Bakuman
Posted by lambchopsil on 
February 16th 2:36pm
Comments ( 180 )  
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Comments

» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 8:45am

Ridiculous....
Just admit that you're not dropping it because you're making money.

MangaStream at least had the guts to respect the publisher.
You're just sc*m.

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» VawX on February 16th, 2012, 8:52am

lol, at least they still put batoto as their first place to upload except for the IRC i guess mmm...

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» Kitsame on February 16th, 2012, 8:56am

i think,that is because batoto will give (more) money to them,than mangahere/fox will.If batoto refused to give them money,they would be "singing different song".

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» RiK.dfs on February 16th, 2012, 9:17am

They just want to put it on an online reader. Mainly for the people who don't want to download or don't want to mess with IRC (or don't want to learn how to work with XDCC lists or bots). And that is probably a good move by them as it eases legal pressure against them some.

Thank you Red Hawk. You are doing a great service for your readers.

And a LOT of groups are having problems with Mangafox and it's associates, so best not to bring that into here. You'll find a lot of groups switching to batoto. Best to keep discussions about that on another thread.

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» unya on February 17th, 2012, 1:50am

Batoto is a terrible site and anyone using it should feel bad for doing it. They aren't any better than mangafox.

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» empathy on February 17th, 2012, 4:26am

you know, except for that fact that Red Hawk is an affiliate of Mangafox and Mangareader.

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» RiK.dfs on February 17th, 2012, 9:03am

I don't mean affiliates as in they use those readers. I mean affiliates as in official backers.

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» VawX on February 16th, 2012, 9:29pm

ah you get it, try to fool some noob but you said the obvious fact mmm...

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» SOSAnimeBoy on February 16th, 2012, 8:54am

How are they making money?

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» Joseinen on February 16th, 2012, 8:56am

ads probably.

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» T1 on February 16th, 2012, 4:00pm

nice deals with mangareader and mangafox...banners on the site tells you much wink

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 4:10pm

T1 enters the thread!
Welcome smile

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 4:39am

I rather enter girls...ya no? biggrin

oh another group drops stuff smile

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 9:01am

i love all work they do... but i didn't expect something like this at the very bottom of mangafox's main page that list the affiliates: (why, i don't understand with dragon and fly?) since when did RHS become part of the MF, just like Dragon and Fly? how much money is RHS getting from MF?

Anime Calendar | Dragon & Fly Scans | Naruto Community | Watch Anime Online | Anime Wallpapers | Anilinkz | Download TV Shows | Anime Shop | Hot Wallpapers | Otaku Zone | Red Hawk Scans | Read Manga Online | Pockie Ninja | Anime Take | GAME 321 | Naruto Wire

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 9:13am

RHS is already getting paid by Mangafox/NOEZ. They don't give a damn about Batoto.
Their initial post actually was like this:
"However, aggregate sites like Batotowill undoubtedly continue to distribute material as they please,"

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» Kitsame on February 16th, 2012, 9:17am

lol at the ambiguity of their expression

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» deadphoenix on February 16th, 2012, 10:00am

Mediafire, they won't get much, zero except if they own the host.

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» RiK.dfs on February 16th, 2012, 10:02am

I think they meant Mangafox (an online reader), not Mediafire.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 10:06am

That's why I don't like shortening mangafox to MF-.-

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» philip72 on February 16th, 2012, 12:37pm

And how much money did Japanzai make from Depositfiles and Batoto?
And if MangaFox has started paying scanlators, how is it different from Batoto?

The fact that Batoto pays scanlators, bothers me almost as much as MangaFox keeping the dough themselves.
The reason so many have refused to join the MangaFox crusade, unlike the Narutofan battle, is that so many scan groups have become moneymakers themselves recently.
It's hypocritical. One group of thieves bitching that they're getting robbed.

No group should receive payment of any kind. It's entirely possible to run a group on donations (for raws only) alone. The scan groups just have to scale back on their giant e-peen enterprises.
No group needs servers, a fancy website, a (usually empty) forum, and contests.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 12:50pm

The scanlators make money only from their own projects on Batoto.
Mangafox makes money on ALL titles.

So you say, donation are okay, but why is the money from ads no good? Why can't the scanlator use that for the raws? It doesn't cost the readers anything -.-'

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» alidan on February 17th, 2012, 4:14am

i have to agree with you on that front. imagine what a scanlator does...
its first a raw, they may buy it or come across it,
than its translation, take a look at what the minimum it costs for get something translated "professionally" is
than there is the editing, another thing which can cost 30-60$ an hour professionally, depending on skill and if its a pay by commission, or if its a pay per hour deal, most things i found in this area are between 20-40$ an hour, more if you can finish fast.

if you want to look at this cynically, than yea, they are in it for money, at the same time, they could take it up through donations also, like saha does, where people pay you for the translation and the editing.

or they could make money translating the manga, money that would go toward purchasing a the raws, and also an incentive to keeping the translators and editors around.

copyright law is a bit hard here, because you could buy a manga, get it translated, and edit it all together on your own and its legal, its the piracy part that gets people... if they just put up the text translated, i do believe that is legal.

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 4:52am

Screw it! Donations are not okay. If it's not shared by the Japanese and you don't want to buy it yourself in the group then you shouldn't ask for money from others to continue.

Yes, I didn't ask cuz I was that great biggrin

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» narfertje on February 17th, 2012, 11:53am

Technically there is one group that deserves payment: the mangaka/publishing company. They are the ones who put the manga out there in the first place.

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» T1 on February 16th, 2012, 4:03pm

pssshhh they can't! Beelze is good, baku...well I dun care...

But does this mean that beelze got licensed? Damn you scanlation, you hiding licensed series from me! lololol

btw I read some article about that if they found it on a server somewhere....that means irc bot too...then they would sue the botowner, serverover, siteowner etc...through ACTA. Sound cool eh? xD

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» DragoZERO on February 16th, 2012, 9:33am

I doubt RH is making a ton of money from what they do. And whatever they do make, goes to raws and server costs. They are not like MangaFox that makes thousands every week. What pisses me off is that MangaFox and it's associate sites are still running strong. MangaFox needs to go.

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 9:46am

RHS is making a lot of money for sure from the monthtly payment that MangaFox is giving them as an affliation (see RHS listed at the bottom of Mangafox main page). we already know that MF tried to offer Manga-Heaven ~$100 a week , for a small group like Manga Heaven... (which gave MF the finger). who knows how much of a payoff RHS is getting from MF.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 10:00am

Exactly.

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» RiK.dfs on February 16th, 2012, 10:04am

Not as much of the money goes to the group as you think it does on Mangafox. That's part of the problem groups are complaining about with Mangafox. Look at some other threads and you'll see a whole slew of information on this.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 10:07am

Yeah, sure mangafox makes a lot of more money. And we all hate them for that.
But it's even more worse that a fellow scanlator is taken money from them and even plays dumb about it.

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» ZL11 on February 16th, 2012, 10:11am

Holy cow, you b*itch a lot. Does this sh*t even matter? Is it REALLY affecting you and yours to any large degree? Are you closing down shop because of it? Just let it go, man. You're going to go bald before you're 30 at this rate...

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 10:23am

It doesn't bother me as much as you think.
It's just funny seeing reaction of guys like you.

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» ZL11 on February 16th, 2012, 10:56am

Hmm... really? How fascinating, seeing as I don't care about the topic. After all, I'm not the one complaining the whole thread through and calling people sc*m. Well, I don't care either way, little mosquito. Enjoy your day.

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» Naeko on February 16th, 2012, 11:28am

Years ago, people posted "don't care" responses just like yours (or lol put on your tinfoil hat) when people warned each time issues came up where fans were urged to get involved such as DMCA, ACTA, PROTECT, etcetera. Sure, some things take awhile to get the ball rolling, so short-sighted people disclaim there is any problem that requires them to care about defending the fandom ecostructure. But problems typically beget other problems.

The Shogakukan company is figuratively the founding parent of three major media company of which Shueisha is one of them. Shogakukan had a message on their website directed against intellectual property violators and stated that they would not tolerate violations. They also named doujinshi as a specific violator. Presumably, the other three firms will follow their parent's lead and it seems the case. Haven't you noticed the dearth of doujinshi from C81 for certain anime series despite their huge popularity? The media company war against doujinshi is in its infancy but you can expect the ball to continue rolling when the doujinshi makers get a "megaupload" poster child of their own.

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 4:38am

You know what's sad, Naeko? 99.5% of the readers don't know that stuff. Reason? They want their manga and don't care about the rest or they don't check out the news of what's happening in Japan....anyone still remember the tokyo bill?

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» jrdragon2003 on February 17th, 2012, 10:36pm

I can't claim to be as knowledgeable on the subject matter as TI, but I do see doujinshi as a good source of talent scouting. If there is a bill or plan to attack it for its conent then Japan is going to lose a good amount potential jobs, which doesn't help economically.

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» Seijurou on February 16th, 2012, 11:37am

In other words, they will keep translating those titles, just not having them on their site? That is . . . Not news.

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» thevampirate on February 16th, 2012, 12:31pm

Its not actually news but I think that this is a great news post because it shows other groups how to properly deal with DCMA / C&D notices. They specifically point out that Scanlating is 100% legal however distribution of the scanlations is piracy (ie. illegal). The way they chose to go about this issue compared to the way most groups respond (most tell them no or drop the series entirely) shows ingenuity and sets a precedent for other groups to follow.
On the other hand Vis and Shueisha has every right to go after aggregators who are clearly in violation of the law and should be targeting them in the first place. Why they would go after small scanlation groups instead is beyond my understanding.

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 4:50am

actually it's not legal. You are not ruin the works of an author...or something like that...think there's a law...

Anyway even if it's legal to do whatever you want with your copy of the work since you bought it, you aren't allowed to share the raws (mind no not that many groups buy raws when they can find them for free so illegal there already) with any other of your groups since it's distribution^^

I agree with you about the aggregators, they should target the online readers, the ones that are making money on this stuff and not promoting it even if they say so. Throw them in jail and have it on the news to give the others warning of what will happen if they continue. Of course they should continue to take the big ones down to make a bigger impact on the rest.

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» monkeyballs on February 25th, 2012, 12:34am

I find it kind of curious that there seems to be this notion that taking such an action allows one to somehow circumvent the law. The very moment RHS distributes that work (and it doesn't matter how they go about it) they have broken the law. It doesn't matter if it is found on their site or not, and legal action can still be taken against them if those in question should so choose. This is basically just a cowardly way of "saying no". What RHS needs is a pair of balls... Monkey balls. Instead they run screaming to mangafox like a little girl and continue scanlating. I don't know about you, but I don't think that's a precedent for other groups to follow.

With regards to why one might go after a small scanlation group as opposed to an aggregator, it's really quite obvious. Why boil the river when you can fix the dam?

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» dosetsu on February 16th, 2012, 12:23pm

The act of editing manga isn't illegal? Well, that's news to me.

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» lori on February 16th, 2012, 12:33pm

Same as driving above speed limit until you get caught!

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» thevampirate on February 16th, 2012, 12:54pm

no editing manga is like making a parody or editing any other image. On the other hand distributing (or even linking to sites that distribute) copyrighted or licensed material is piracy and can be a felony offence, but just editing it is fine. On the other hand they might be committing conspiracy to pirate copyrighted materials but that's nearly impossible to prove.

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» dosetsu on February 16th, 2012, 1:02pm

The fact that you honestly believe this is quite outstanding.

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» Ascension on February 16th, 2012, 2:09pm

/facepalm/ You're totally clueless to the meaning of copyright. If you get the books of harry potter and rewrite it but you change the name of the protagonist to Harriet Pottings, and the gender... it does not mean the new books don't still have copyright from the original author... Inform yourself before spouting retardedness.

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» seralin on February 16th, 2012, 10:27pm

As long as you keep it to yourself, it is not illegal. And, right now that is what they choose to do. I doubt those companies will target them before the sites that actually distribute them. Similar to meagupload being targeted, but not the individuals who are illegally uploading and sharing the materials.

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 4:54am

NO if you are a one manga group and keep it to yourself then it's fine but as soon as you share the raw with other "team members" then its' illegal. Oh and the raw has to be one you bought yourself too.

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» RiK.dfs on February 16th, 2012, 6:32pm

Do you get in legal trouble for drawing on a book you own?

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» monkeyballs on February 25th, 2012, 12:40am

Do you get in legal trouble for drawing on a book you own, photocopying it, and passing it out to six hundred people? Depends on how much the book sucks.

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» KuroYatsu on February 16th, 2012, 12:53pm

You guys keep talking about money, what's the problem if they're profiting or not, the important thing is that they provide the series for us, people like to create rules about scanlation but truth be told, it's all crap. You are not satisfied with their work? Do something better, just some empty complain wont help.

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» dosetsu on February 16th, 2012, 1:04pm

Holy shit, man.

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» Panda on February 16th, 2012, 1:16pm

This is the internet. People are going to find something to bitch about, form an incoherent, illiterate opinion, and then rant until they get bored.

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» ZL11 on February 16th, 2012, 1:24pm

BRAVO!!!! :: STANDING OVATION!! ::

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» jrdragon2003 on February 17th, 2012, 10:57pm

This is what happens when people don't think ahead. It's not really just about money, it's also about the outcome of such acts. Piracy is illegal, and when it comes down to it that's all scanslations are. Now what kept us going was fewer people making money of it, but nowadays some group or site is doing it openly. When it comes to that then starts the tragic destruction of our manga community. When you play with a persons livelihood an eventual fallback will occur. In the case it will be the complete shutdown of the scanslation community. So when you see someone complain about the online readers or groups getting money this, means that person has seen the cause and effect of those actions. I hope you guys understand that.

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» Verito.S on February 16th, 2012, 1:25pm

So... what if they are making money? do you think some of them don't have severs to pay? books to buy? Do you think they are becoming millionaire, living in mansions like the MegaUpload owner? probably not. And if they are making money, they aren't even charging us for that like Tazmo.
I don't even know why some of you are so mad of them doing money, like you don't read scanlation and buy every single manga that you read. It's kinda hypocrite of you, if you don't like them making money for giving you free manga, then just don't read manga online, don't download manga or go to their websites.

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» monkeyballs on February 25th, 2012, 2:14am

At least Tazmo lied to others and took advantage of ignorance. They're just lying to themselves. Let's face it, that's hilarious to see. I will read their manga if I wish, and I will continue to make fun of them. If they don't like it, it's not like they're being held at gunpoint and told to scanlate. Who are you to tell other people what they can or can't do or say, then criticize them for doing the same thing. Kind of hypocritical of you... and me. Oh damn! Now we're both hypocrites. Couldn't you have left the word "hypocrite" out of your post? Nice going! :'( Really, the word "hypocrite" is such a joke. Do people really still expect others to take that kind of accusation seriously? I believe that breaking the law is wrong, but I steal women's clothing from the frozen food section of my grocery store. Get over it. Nobody cares. No... it isn't the hypocrisy. It's the lies. It's how they semi-apologetically attempt to justify their actions. On a slightly more serious tack, why can't people express any disapproval? If I vote someone into office, and decide I don't like their stance on something does that mean I forfeit my right to complain? Is my only option to not vote for them again? You're creating a false scenario where one isn't allowed to provide any negative feedback. What's with that? I wasn't aware that scanlators can't be criticized. I'm sorry, but who cares whether they're right or wrong or hypocrite or not. The mindset of "love it or leave it" is fundamentally flawed. Since when has trying to bring about change been such a crime? I am a derisive, obnoxious idiot, and it is my duty to get you to reconsider this point. So please reconsider.

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» Ichibukai on February 16th, 2012, 1:38pm

Red Hawk does not make profit, does not pay staff, and in fact sometimes has to pay out of its own pocket to afford the server costs associated with hosting its own online reader with no compression. PROzess, I know exactly who has been feeding you these ideas and why so I won't hold your ignorance against you. Regardless, next time you might want to consider coming to us if you have beef rather than try to engage in a misguided internet smear campaign.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 1:42pm

Your actions speak for you guys.
No use hiding stuff.

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» Ichibukai on February 16th, 2012, 1:47pm

If you're actually interested in the truth, come find me on IRC. If you would prefer to continue to make snide and uninformed accusations from the sidelines, by all means proceed. Haters are nothing new for us or the internet.

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 1:53pm

answer this then... why is RHS an affliate on MangaFox's main site? with Dragon & Fly? MF put you guys there for FREE? If you get 'bribes' or 'donations' or whatever kind of deal from MF, just leave it at that, you don't have to sugarcoat it. It looks bad.

hmmm, I guess that explains why a few months ago RHS try to "GIVE" cage of eden of the crappiest group (if you can call it that) Dragon & Fly. You guys should've "gave" it to EGS or IMS

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 1:55pm

Exactly what DatCat said.
And also the recent case about ignoring the wishes of the publisher. The actual reason for this topic.
Not only don't you respect their wish for you to stop, no you're also stabbing them from behind, when you're saying you won't provide links anymore, but still work on it quite obvious.
That wasn't want they wanted when they contacted you.

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» Ichibukai on February 16th, 2012, 2:05pm

We are affiliates with Batoto and Mangareader as well. We communicate with aggregate sites and, considering their penchant to wage cyber warfare, have no desire to pick fights with them. Cage of Eden was going to be dropped regardless because we didn't have a single staff member left from the team. But you should already know all this and more if you had asked Tran Linh.

The bottom line is we love our series and we're not going to stop working on them unless an equivalent legal service is made available. We will not stop for you, or the aggregate sites, or the publishers. It's certainly not about money. Even if we are driven off of our homepage and into complete anonymity, we will continue to produce high quality releases as long as the fans want to read them.

And that's all I have to say here. If you'd like to continue our discussion, PROzess, you know where to find me.

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 2:11pm

It is funny you mention Tran, he's also one of the biggest offender, you big groups all stick together. he probably also making $1000s by taking up all the popular projects. And I also believe his stuff isn't getting a cent. Well, like most groups. Big groups who make money and tries to hide it just sickens me. Their epic fail in trying to go to war with EGS just proves it.

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 2:13pm

sorry, i meant "staff" not stuff

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» Ichibukai on February 16th, 2012, 2:13pm

I know I promised not to respond, but this is pretty hilarious. Japanzai and Red Hawk stick together now? Hysterical. He'd have a good laugh too.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 2:18pm

You know what's even funnier?
"We have no desire to pick legal battles,"
"We will not stop for you, or the aggregate sites, or the publishers."

Okay....

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 2:22pm

We all know why Japan-Nazi put watermarks on their releases... so they can make money, I'm sorry, so TRAN can make money. by getting all the readers first to flock to batoto. that's his approach for his team.
While RHS or the top makes money by putting ads on the main site, and make a deal with MFox and also get ad money from batoto, that's your approach.
EGS does it differently, they ask for donations and they don't watermark their works. I respect that "a little".

bottom line, don't sugar coat everything. we all know what's going on. I love the old days when scanlators just do titles because they really do love it. and there is NO MONEY from ads or anyone.

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» Panda on February 16th, 2012, 3:09pm

Okay, I'm not a fan of either of those two groups, but I'm pretty sure I put watermarks on my releases too. Where's my fucking money?

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» Milleniummaster18 on February 16th, 2012, 3:24pm

I have to agree... with Ichibukai, since piracy also works as means of protest, you have to stick it up to the man if you're going to make a point.

Granted, these guys will back out once the law's right at their front door, yet I admire their determination to take on every alternative out there, while others would just straight pack up and quit.

If they're lying about how much they make, then they'll come 'round eventually.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 3:30pm

Do you even realize what you're saying?
"while others would just straight pack up and quit."
What the?
So if you rob a supermarket in real life and a witness tells you he would report you to the police if you don't stop, you would just go to the next town and start robbing stuff there?
Good job....

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» Milleniummaster18 on February 16th, 2012, 8:13pm

Make sense, kid, that analogy is so outdated and inaccurate. No use arguing the same shit over and over again.

If "robbing" (really isn't) is what has to be done to stick it up to the man, then so be it.

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» PROzess on February 17th, 2012, 4:44am

The whole world would go down the drain if everyone acted on that principle...
We're not here for the piracy, but for spreading the love on the manga, no?

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» Milleniummaster18 on February 17th, 2012, 3:46pm

Those two concepts are intertwined, we pirate because we love the manga (just not the price, or quality, or both).
Keep in mind that MU would never have been what it is today without the assistance from piracy.
Piracy can and does have positive effects, some of us just don't notice or even refuse to see them.

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» PROzess on February 17th, 2012, 4:49pm

We didn't start scanlation for the sake of piracy.
We started it to promote manga.
But that is changing recently.
The scanlation scene is just too profitable now.

What I'm saying is, we wanted to spread the love for manga. Our love also had respect for the creaters (or their rightful owners, the publisher). But RHS's stunt neither has love nor respect. And that's the problem.

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» ink junkie on February 17th, 2012, 5:44pm

Totally, because as long as North America gets the manga it's all good.

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» PROzess on February 17th, 2012, 6:08pm

Well, actually it's not all good.
Because people complain at the "slow" release of english publisher and thus want the piracy to continue.
But that wasnt the original goal of scanlation.
Nowadays its just about getting FAST releases for FREE.

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» ink junkie on February 18th, 2012, 3:45am

Hah, try "no release". Yeah, they don't sell the manga, in this case Bakuman and Beelzebub, here in our country. So it doesn't matter to me if it's licensed or not -- as long as someone is scanlating it, I'll continue to read, because I can't buy their stuff either way.

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» PROzess on February 18th, 2012, 4:46am

You can read english scanlation, so why can't you buy the official english releases!?
As far as I know, nowadays stuff gets shipped everywhere....
But, wait, then we're on the topic of money again. Right, you don't want to pay for it.
Thus you read free scanlaton.
And thus we're on my argument from before.

/me sighs

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» ink junkie on February 18th, 2012, 5:16am

Because we DON'T have the official English releases. And you want me to get the manga shipped? When it costs like, what, three, four times the original price?

I WANT to pay for it, but the costs for doing that are unreasonable. I don't have the money. For comparison, I could buy our local comic books weekly if I saved up for it. Official English manga? Try once a month, if I save up for it. Oh wait, now you're gonna tell me to suck it up and support the publishers anyway. If it comes to that -- that is, I can't buy the official English release, AND I couldn't read a scanlation-- then I'd just stop reading manga altogether. Just because I'm not pirating doesn't mean I will be buying.

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» RiK.dfs on February 18th, 2012, 7:21am

You're contradicting yourself flat out in your post.
And you ARE pirating.

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» ink junkie on February 18th, 2012, 8:16am

I never said I wasn't pirating. Please tell me how you managed to get that idea.

Please do tell how I contradicted myself, otherwise I will just assume that you missed the point of my post. Or that you took my sarcastic comment literally (the one mentioning North America).

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» RiK.dfs on February 18th, 2012, 10:10am

"I WANT to pay for it, but the costs for doing that are unreasonable. I don't have the money."
"Just because I'm not pirating doesn't mean I will be buying."

That's pirating. The contradiction part is where you claim not to be pirating
"Just because I'm not pirating..."

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» RiK.dfs on February 18th, 2012, 11:08am

Read you post

Just because I'm not pirating doesn't mean I will be buying.

Word for word that claims that you're not pirating.

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» ink junkie on February 19th, 2012, 5:45am

- facepalm - Ever heard of context? Did you not see the "if" statement before that sentence? Did you really think I was claiming to be NOT pirating, and not stating that "even if I'm not pirating, it doesn't mean I will be buying?"

I apologize if your grasp on the English language is limited, and thus not privy to the subtler forms of sentence construction.

And in any case, let's get rid of this semantic crap. I wholeheartedly admit I am pirating. Well then. If that's seriously the only "contradiction" you can throw at me, the rest of my tirade is still perfectly valid.

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» RiK.dfs on February 19th, 2012, 8:56am

I know English. Maybe YOU don't.
And the use of "if" in that manner DOES imply that it is true in your case.
And since you're going to be such a jackass in this issue I'm just gonna ignore everything else you say.

End of story.

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 4:58am

The man as in----the authors who don't the shit you are doing?

Please, stop saying that it's fine to steal other's stuff because you are standing up to them. In my house if you stand up against the man then you sure as hell should be able to take on the consequences for what will come out of it. Many scanlators seem to forget that fact...that they may end in jail if the companies start suing you for standing up to them. Excuses like: "I stood up cuz you cheat your customers/ this was a protest" doesn't hold that well in court.

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» Milleniummaster18 on February 17th, 2012, 3:36pm

Well, sometimes you have to do the wrong thing for the right reasons, kind of a Robin Hood scenario.

The law isn't always right, nor is it sacred, and it surely isn't on point regarding Copyright law, just as media companies aren't on point with their old marketing system.

We do what we think is right based on what we believe, if it doesn't fit with someone else's point of view, that's their problem.

A company works for both the benefit of the people and for themselves, right now, the scales are tipped towards their own benefit (owners, employees get paid the same), it's time to even the scales out a bit, don't you think?

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 4:14pm

Robin hood was saving people, ya kno...you can't draw parallel to this, no matter how you turn it. It's comics, dammit! If you can't live without it you really need a life, that's a given.

The law isn't always right, we see that always in USA. Still in this case the law is right, there's no reason to go against the law for our own selfish pleasure. If you don't like the product given by the license holders then you don't buy it. You don't end up doing criminal activity to make a point, especially not when it comes to something called manga aka comics. That would make people laugh in court and then judge you guilty after they stopped laughing. xD

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» PROzess on February 17th, 2012, 4:51pm

You have to see it like this:
Some kids in whatever place are so addicted to manga now that they would die if they don't get their weekly dose.
Thus we're saving people!!


/me sighs
Just too stupid.
You can't argue with the public...

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» RiK.dfs on February 17th, 2012, 6:47pm

Humans are natural idiots. nuff said.

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» jrdragon2003 on February 17th, 2012, 11:26pm

I'm sorry to burst your bubble Milleniummaster18, but there is nothing "righteous" about this at all. Stealing from authors or companies that give those authors a livelihood isn't sticking to the man, it's just showing that you're a theif. There is no "belief" being shown in your arguement, all it's proving is that there are people like making these authors their slaves and that they should giving it to you for free all the time. And you also sound a little bit like someone who doesn't work. Cause a company that makes sure it's employees get paid, and not have to lay off them cause of no money coming in, sounds like a good company to me. So I don't know what scales you're trying to even out are but it certainly tips the scales to unemployment for a lot of people.

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» Milleniummaster18 on February 18th, 2012, 5:53pm

Well, that's your opinion. Some people would say otherwise, and I stick with that numerous band.

We're not thieves, we're pirates, know the difference.

The fact that Shueisha is stooping low enough to pick a fight with the people tells you clearly that something wrong is going on there, sounds like a bad company to me.

Though necessary, money can easily deceive, look past the illusion.

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» jrdragon2003 on February 18th, 2012, 9:00pm

Thieves or pirates, makes no difference, you're still stealing. If you want to stick that "band" be my guess, but don't sugarcoat the act. There's no sticking it to the man on it, nor is it making an example of the company.
The fact that Shueisha is trying to property, their employees, and the authors means they're doing something right. If I was an employee or an author I'd be happy they're stepping up.
I can agree money corrupts looking at whole issue with individuals making money off manga distribution in the scanslation world. But you also have to realize that these companies aren't big banks on Wall Street or something. These are all regular companies with proper licences that they bought, with employees who have families to take care of. And lets not forget the authors, they're far from rich, not all of them even make it overseas. Only a select few have made it big and not by much. So, sorry if I don't think your "rebel" theory holds weight. The only illusion you need to look past is your own ego of everything should be for you.

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» Milleniummaster18 on February 19th, 2012, 1:30pm

Not everything, just those things we like from them and want to share with others around the world (while making an implied point in the process), if a manga's international availability is either non-existent or not to our liking (butchered localizations, ridiculously expensive imports, or we just like to prove we can do a better translation of these mangas, make them known around the community), we are compelled to perform these acts until they are smart enough to provide a solution, since they're not going to win this battle.

I can't speak for the employees. When you stick your head between the middle of a shitstorm like that it's bound to be cut, if not chopped off entirely. Best thing we can do is try to minimize the body count.
I can, however, advise them to contribute with our cause and persuade their employers to try a reasonably priced alternative that works for everyone, and I mean everyone.

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» jrdragon2003 on February 19th, 2012, 9:37pm

Now that's more of a sensible answer I was looking for. Now I can't say piracy is the right path for helping everyone but for the scanslation world it does seem sensible... However that's if it doesn't grow so big that it turns groups into profit makers. If it was just for exposure for a certain manga, or bringing it overseas to places it wouldn't normally go to, then fine. But in the mean time I still can't agree that it's a justifiable protest. Especially with a broken economy crackdown on the "pirates" will be even harder. If it's stealing from regular employees, no matter how hard you want to wish it the "pirates" will lose this battle. Their heads weren't put in the middle by choice, it was forced there. And it definitely not done by their employers, at least by choice. The real best thing would be sticking to the roots of scanslations were, underground groups sharing at a steady rate behind the regular releases, and to get rid of the attitude that we're fighting a revolution cause we aren't. I agree with you though that it's up too employees to change their employers (optimistic, but truly a better option over blatant theft).

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» monkeyballs on February 25th, 2012, 12:54am

Gimme a break. You don't even know who "the man" is.

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» RiK.dfs on February 17th, 2012, 8:09pm

Piracy has never been an effective form of protests. It's simply illegal and holds no value to the masses. It only gives them FURTHER reason to go after you.

If you wanna protest something, then BOYCOTT it dammit. Or even just petition the company. That's actually perfectly legal.

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» Milleniummaster18 on February 18th, 2012, 6:15pm

I would consider revising that first statement of yours, since piracy does hold value to the masses, just look at Sweden or China.

Boycotting requires a lot of organization, something we lack greatly up here in the west, the Europeans can do something like this, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if they already have.
Piracy is a form of boycotting, with the exception that the people don't get affected for not getting the benefit, since they're reproducing (contrast "stealing") the original product. That's the 21st century for you, smart people doing smart things.

And you can easily ignore or say no to a petition.

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» RiK.dfs on February 18th, 2012, 7:45pm

When I meant petition I meant as a notice so they can be aware of specifics that people consider a problem and requested to fix (such as quality). And I will not revise my statement. It's my opinion and that of many others.

And reproducing a product under these conditions is stealing. If you believe otherwise then we simply disagree on that.

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» Milleniummaster18 on February 19th, 2012, 12:52pm

I agree on our disagreement, if that makes any sense.

And with that, I conclude my end of the conversation, pleasure discussing this with you.

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» RiK.dfs on February 19th, 2012, 1:33pm

I agree with you on this.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 2:12pm

"The bottom line is we love our series and we're not going to stop working on them unless an equivalent legal service is made available."

Huuh!?
Then stop your crappy acting of complying with the publisher and just release like you always have.
You ARE ignoring their wish, not the "aggressor sites". So stop blaming them.
I just want you to take responsibility for the action you take. Shifting the blame is just the slowest you can sink.

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» Ascension on February 16th, 2012, 2:23pm

If all the authors and publishers of manga/manwha/manhua would up and send C&D letters to all the scanlators, and everyone... Would you stop doing any manga just to respect the wishes of the publishers? you're a hypocrite D:

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 2:27pm

I don't work on licensed series.
And yes, I would stop if I get contacted.

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» Ascension on February 16th, 2012, 2:37pm

All the series are licensed... by the original creator. Just because you translate the language doesn't mean the creation loses it's license.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 3:02pm

Well, scanlation was started to spread the word into non-japanese communities.
Thus if we speak of licensing it obvious means english licenses.
You wouldn't get started at all on scanlation if that's your reasoning.
But I would still stop if a japanese publisher or author contacts me.
Nothing happened so far, so I try to spread the love for manga... wait, what the fuck I'm saying here.
I'm just here to troll people.

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» Ascension on February 16th, 2012, 3:13pm

Oh please... As if it matters wether it's the english licensor or the japanese. Same shit. Plus... english publishers are mostly dead ever since the fall of tokyopop. About 2-3 are left... not that many. If the author himself would send me a mail and ask me to stop doing his work i'd probably stop. But publishers are the middle man... i don't give a damn about what they want. You are indeed a troll-tard-wannabe... and a hypocrite to top it off. D: Discussion over.

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 5:00am

Yes press, Viz, Dark Horse, Kodansha comics, SevenSea and etcetc...yes only 2-3 left. Just cuz TP dies because their leader as an idiot doesn't mean that the others run the business just like that idiot.

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» PROzess on February 17th, 2012, 5:40am

It was never a discussion to begin with.
I was just having fun on your costs.

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» RiK.dfs on February 17th, 2012, 9:09am

Exactly. Just because something is licensed in Japan doesn't automatically license it in other countries. You have to go through the paperwork and such to license it in other countries (usually only done when a publisher is going to try to market it in that area).

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 1:29pm

Actually it's like this: When it's made it Japan then it's licensed in the whole world by the company in Japan...that's the reason why other companies buys the license from the Japan company to sells the shit in their coountry.

So yes the manga is licensed when it's licensed in Japan. Like the manhua when it's licensed in China and the manwha is licensed when it's licensed in Korea. Why do you think the new breaker author asks people nicely to stop scanlating his stuff, before he gets enough, get angry and then starts to sue people. Yes, the world is evil! Specially for people who make stuff T.T

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» RiK.dfs on February 17th, 2012, 2:42pm

A license usually is location specific. With media it's usually just licensed for a specific region (such as country). It's only valid in the area specified in the license (legal document). Publishers for different regions (such as other countries) will need to obtain a license from the owner for rights to publish/distribute inside their specific region (so it's a different license).

If people want to read up on this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/License
(just had to post this since for a few days I've been seeing posts all over the place at different forums and such with people trying to talk like they're lawyers but don't really understand what a license is).

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 4:18pm

"Publishers for different regions (such as other countries) will need to obtain a license from the owner for rights to publish/distribute inside their specific region (so it's a different license)."

You say it so nicely yourself that I don't got anything to add. This is the thingie I talk about. So if someone who starts scanlating stuff talks about license it would mean nothing since the scanlator hasn't bought any license for the rights to sell/scanlator/anythingelsewiththetitle from the owner.

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» RiK.dfs on February 19th, 2012, 1:35pm

Exactly.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 1:55pm

If course you don't mind haters. You wouldn't have started taking money otherwise.

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 2:00pm

also about "Red Hawk does not make profit, does not pay staff, and in fact sometimes has to pay out of its own pocket to afford the server costs associated with hosting its own online reader with no compression" I think most of it is true for most groups. but I tend to believe, that, in some big groups (we all know who they are)... there is definitely one person or two who are making the money and pocketing it for themselves. it's a dirty little secret that no leaders wants to admit. most of the money goes to the leader but rest of the staff ... yeah... they don't usually get paid.

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» Ascension on February 16th, 2012, 2:20pm

I don't really get it why you're fighting about this... Remember a couple of years ago when Meep-Scans got a C&D from Daiwon(i think, if not.. haksan)? They went underground, renamed themselves Manwhore-scans... and then finished the mangas they started. As i remember no one bitched at them for finishing those mangas. Everyone thanked them. Most of the people that kept saying "you're not respecting the wishes of the publishers" are fu.cking hypocrites. If they had dropped those series, you people would be writing compassionate posts about them and saying it's too bad that they had to stop doing them.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 2:26pm

Well, but RHS make it sound like they comply with the publisher wish while they just blame other sites that the work is still being spread and still spread the stuff themselves.
One has to stand up himself for the action he takes.
Don't blame others for it.

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» Ascension on February 16th, 2012, 2:36pm

In most cases... People don't give a shit about that. I wanna continue reading those mangas, so hell if i care who's doing it and if he's standing up for himself or blabla bla... it's simple.. i wanna read the manga that i like. I don't give a shit about their beliefs or their morals as long as i get the manga fast, with good quality and free to boot. People are upset because their getting money from ads... does it matter? That money is from nowhere... True they are attracting attention but even so. We're in a constantly evolving manga community. A couple of years ago there were like 20 main groups... Now there's like 20 new groups every day. Things will change but why do you think it will be for the worse? With the internet and online manga's and scanlations and paper being outdated... authors don't even need publishers anymore. From what i understand Ken Akamatsu started a site with free manga, and paying the authors with ads. Most likely this is the future of manga.

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» Ascension on February 16th, 2012, 2:36pm

In most cases... People don't give a shit about that. I wanna continue reading those mangas, so hell if i care who's doing it and if he's standing up for himself or blabla bla... it's simple.. i wanna read the manga that i like. I don't give a shit about their beliefs or their morals as long as i get the manga fast, with good quality and free to boot. People are upset because their getting money from ads... does it matter? That money is from nowhere... True they are attracting attention but even so. We're in a constantly evolving manga community. A couple of years ago there were like 20 main groups... Now there's like 20 new groups every day. Things will change but why do you think it will be for the worse? With the internet and online manga's and scanlations and paper being outdated... authors don't even need publishers anymore. From what i understand Ken Akamatsu started a site with free manga, and paying the authors with ads. Most likely this is the future of manga.

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» T1 on February 16th, 2012, 4:12pm

I would like to say a lot to you but you already know how I am so I will only say this: Stop doubleposting it's not nice bigrazz

...and yes I care!

PS: You can get sued too since you are very close to where I live...which mean ACTA will kill yaaaaa lol

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» Ascension on February 16th, 2012, 4:17pm

Sorry about the double-posting, pushed f5 after i posted, and for some reason it double posted... Anyway... MY PEOPLE(Including me) ARE PROTESTING! SAY NO TO ACTA!

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 5:00am

ppssshh like that will help. You know already that it's going to pass, money runs the world. wink

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» Ascension on February 17th, 2012, 2:05pm

My people already killed the administration back in 89. No problem doing it again.

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 4:15pm

You mean, your people will kill for comics? lol at your people xD

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» Ascension on February 20th, 2012, 7:34am

Not for comics duh... Censoring our rights to the internet, and policing it as well...

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 2:26pm

that picture... "i'll come to bed later, someone on the internet is wrong"
comes to mind.
anyway. apples and oranges. RHS should've just do the same approache as manwhore-scans instead of posting a post like that "oh we'll stop but we wont'". OR give DMCA a big finger. I can respect both.

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» ForteAtrox on February 16th, 2012, 2:21pm

Why is everyone having such a bitch fit?
Get. Over. It.

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» D_P on February 16th, 2012, 2:50pm

Someone should summon T1 for instant shitstorm.

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» Milleniummaster18 on February 16th, 2012, 3:30pm

Got tired of that old record, so scratched he keeps saying the same things regardless of topic.

Not that there isn't anything wrong with that, but... meh, it does get old.

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 5:03am

I iz old...ancient evil. Still that doesn't change what is true. Muahahahahahhaa

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 5:03am

/me is summoned

/me cast magic: Instant shitstorm

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/8/1 5/b71560fd-6910-4750-bc9d-7aa09322ce98.jpg

There you go!

/me sets mode: +godly

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» saisais on February 16th, 2012, 2:42pm

Seriously why is everyone complaining they have the right to earn a little money for all the work they do on the series i mean america when you go new york and go to china town it's a right of passage to buy a pirated dvd or some other fake item like a rolex.

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 2:54pm

The big winner is actually the Chinese in the end. So yeah. why do we love to give money to the Chinese?!

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» Ox on February 16th, 2012, 2:57pm

then what the heck do you want? when mangastream dropped their projects on jump, you complain. and when rhs decided not to dropped their projects jump, you complain too, seriously WTF DO YOU WANT THEN?
mangastream got their pride held high, so they dropped them. and i respect that. it's a serious shit. few will do that.
but i respect rhs's guts for not dropping it also. they're playing with the authority here, the possibility of their ip being tracked and them being sent to jail after that is absolutely not zero.
in a logical thinking, any scanlation group is already playing in an illegal area of the business even before mangas start to get licensed. so why should they even bother to dropped their projects when the only problem is that the illegal part just been made obvious?

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» neonkitty on February 16th, 2012, 3:11pm

Seriously, some of you people can not be satisfied. And really shut the hell up because you know damn well you will end up reading their scanlations. Now will you get it directly from them or their hosts? Maybe not but you'll probably end up reading them on online readers whether you know it or not. &when you get slow releases or find out your precious series has been dropped you'll bitch about it again. And who gives if they get a profit or not? Sure it may be illegal but your just reading their scanlations, they are offering you a service and your taking it. And if they do get in trouble, it is their issue. Your only problem will be you can't get your leecher hands on your next chapter.

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» T1 on February 16th, 2012, 4:07pm

I don't use online readers that much since it's much more traceable than irc...if you didn't know...why give myself away when there's no need. You end up downloading the pages too as cache on your computer so it's direct traffic to your computer from the site...evidence that holds in court.

I dun read bakuman, I read beelze...and these days I read raws xD

Why can't we be satisfied....? Well the reason for me is that it shouldn't be right to earn money on the author's work. We do illegal activity but go "We are right morally!" but as soon as we start earning money on scanlations then we can't be morally right anymore. We are just criminals...that's why I can't be satisfied, can you?

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» neonkitty on February 16th, 2012, 4:23pm

True but it would be impossible to track every person who has ever used a site like mangafox.

And I'm sorry, I think you misread what I wrote. I was referring to the readers not the scan layouts who are never satisfied. When a manga is licensed most cry that scanlators have dropped it and now that Red Hawk said they will continue with scanlators people are going apeshit for continuing. What I'm saying is that if they are gonna end up reading their scans then they shouldn't say crap. And when I said "you guys are idiots" I'm referring to the readers again. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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» neonkitty on February 16th, 2012, 4:27pm

Ahit autocorrect is stupid -_-
I meant scanlators not layouts wtf -____-"
And I meant scanlations not scanlators

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 5:05am

Thanks, cool then I totally agree...

You know readers are humans and humans are stupid...they complain no matter what they got cuz the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. wink

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 3:19pm

some of us just like to add fuel to the fire and keep the discussion going.
I mean, what else are we going to do waiting for the next raw and/or scanlation to hit the net?
I know, I'll watch commie sub's release on youtube becuse it doesn't matter where I watch it. and youtube have all the animes i need. and you know what? commie sub will not bitch about it. because they don't care where i get my anime from.

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» PROzess on February 16th, 2012, 3:36pm

Topics such as this are the only reason I'm still in the community.
Nothing more entertaining than trolling readers~

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» cmertb on February 16th, 2012, 3:38pm

If these guys get sued for real, do they really think this trick will cover their asses? They'll be laughed out of any court with this defense.

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» T1 on February 16th, 2012, 4:08pm

and I will do the same? xD

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 4:07pm

It used to be just for the Scanlation... and now it's a business. recently going to your site, I was bombarded by ads... and then when i saw the 'mangafox' affiliation on Mangafox's own site... with Dragon and Fly. that was a shock to me. what changed!?

I guess the extrascans guys was right.
http://extrascans.com/2012/02/maoyuu-maou-yuusha-ch apter-09/#more-1730
They said, for a small group like them, they make about 150-200 a week, so, yeah, I'm sure RHS gets 1000$ in addition to all that extra ads and the kickback from MangaFox. You've turn into a business RHS.

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» T1 on February 16th, 2012, 4:10pm

That was a long time ago. Seems like in the end it was just as Noizy wanted it. One indo out to make money, another indo raging and now doing the same...

Somehow this reminds me of Hitlers dream to make one Europe and now we are making EU. xD

pssst you didn't hear this from me.

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» Oddwaffle on February 16th, 2012, 4:26pm

Right... because scanslation business is so lucrative that none of the actual publisher is competing. How much money would a licensed distributor with HQ, quick and accessible scans that charge a monthly fee (like magazine fee) for these 'hot' manga scans? Or maybe they are all slow, dumb and rigid businesses that can't get on with this scanslation business. Or maybe there aren't that much money in scanslation in the 1st place (if you only collect from ads).

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» Weaper12 on February 16th, 2012, 4:33pm

you do know that official editors have to pay for the license, right? ads are really lucrative if you don't hav to pay licences for every single manga. if you have to, then it's nowhere near enought.
that's why there is less and less official editors in english, because team like RHS steal their direct market without a need to pay the license while the official side have to.

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» cmertb on February 16th, 2012, 4:41pm

Heh. There are some kids in this biz from poor countries who'd sell their grandma for five bucks. The amount of money that wouldn't make a real publisher (or any normal scanlator) even lift a finger would be enough for a kid like that to get into scanlation, try to pick up every popular WSJ manga out there, and plaster their site with ads and quick bux links. Remember Mangacurse? Some groups just take it far and beyond that, but they're still doing it for money, even if it's not worth the effort by the standards of someone from a wealthier country

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» Weaper12 on February 16th, 2012, 4:45pm

of course I'm not basing that estimation on the african market... I was talking about the english market which obviously deal in different stading.
However they have to pay: office, staff, license, advertising, printing, distribution, and god know how much more while scanlation covering the same manga don't need to pay more then server and raw cost. I think there is an obvious reason why manga licensed in english shouldn't be scanlated...

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» cmertb on February 16th, 2012, 4:51pm

I wasn't replying to you, Weaper. Look at the indent carefully. wink

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» Weaper12 on February 16th, 2012, 4:53pm

my bad, I'm not used to these arborescence

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» Panda on February 16th, 2012, 4:50pm

Whoa, what the hell? I wanna be profitable too! Damn...

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» Stoner on February 16th, 2012, 5:02pm

Everything was easier when irc was the primary source for getting manga. And I don't care what anyone says. If you can only survive by asking donations, don't even get into scanlations in the first place. Accepting donations is different than having a monthly goal.

Anyway, everything has gone to shit. I am disappoint. I wish I could go back 4 years ago...

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 5:30pm

You are right, I just looked at EGS' site what's the deal with this monthly GOAL? did they suddenly turn into PBS? it really isn't that much to run a website. I got one and it's so cheap. And I'm doing one of the TOP titles. Now what other expenses do they have? their raws are 90% free webtoon... I don't understand.

Well, but I digress, RHS has probably crossed the line this time. I guess, It does pay to have a Chinese person in the leadership. (Yes he's Indonesian... but he 'types' perfect Chinese). Remember kids, to get into scanlation, have a Chinese person in your group and you'll get Early Raws to crush your opponent. YES, I'm bitter about that.

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» kawaiiusagichan on February 17th, 2012, 11:30am

Get your sickening racial stereotypical allegations off the net. I don't particularly care if you flame some random person other than me, but pointing fingers at whole ethnicities is disgraceful.

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» Seijurou on February 22nd, 2012, 3:14pm

Get off my internetz!

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» T1 on February 17th, 2012, 5:07am

I agree totally.

I wish I could go back a decade thus I could kick my ass for getting into scanlation and instead just focus on getting more rich. wink

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» alelil on February 16th, 2012, 6:01pm

hypocrite shouts hypocrite
it's RHS rights to do as the please as some people put some =="watermarks"== on their works, and wage crusade war to the fox, it's okay it's also your rights,
but please stop playing good guy, IF it's true RHS get share from MF, you just can't stand it because u dont get too right. IF MF can give some money to all scanlation that protest, i'm sure they will calm down. So stop using crusade war facade, but instead use hey MF i want money too, just give my damn share like some other scan who already get their share

well things would be simpler if people not beat around the bush, mwahahaha

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» Weaper12 on February 16th, 2012, 6:04pm

Mangafox (Noez) proposed money to every randomly big team. Japanzai was offered a monthly $300 that was refused. Almost everytime refused such shameless bribe, almost...
weird how only RHS is in Mangafox's affiliates along Dragin Fly Scans...

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» Weaper12 on February 16th, 2012, 6:04pm

Almost everyone*

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 6:26pm

Actually, MF does offer money to big groups often, I've known at least 3 teams that turned them down.
Manga-Heaven being one. If your group is too small, they don't give a flying f and just rip your work.

So Thank you very much China.

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» ncrdrg on February 16th, 2012, 7:22pm

I'd like to expand on how ridiculous it is for Japanzai to criticize RHS on that topic.
I know first-hand what kind of profits they get under Google AdSense since I'm a leader of Random Scanlations and was competing against them for SKR and also used Google Adsense.

I know exactly what kind of revenue a popular manga brings. During the whole saga, Adsense was bringing revenues up to 450$ (but we were banned for some reason so we didn't see a penny of that). And Japanzai scanlates several other popular series.

The reality is that any group that is somewhat large will end up making money if they use Adsense or donations. And not just "break even" like what most small groups aspire to. They can use that to buy raws, keep it for themselves, or a combination of both (personally, I let our paypal account open to my admins because I have nothing to hide.)

Like EGS and the that lofty monthly donation goal. I know a lot of it goes towards hosting since I used to be co-leader there but it shows poor judgment because hosting should never cost that much. My group pays roughly 60$ a year, unlimited bandwidth. A tad slow and probably not suitable for large groups but the 60-80 euros per month I saw while I was there? Way too high. Then again, when you have such a large fanbase willing to send money, why would you care?

So hey, personally, scanlation teams earning money for the work they do? I don't really mind. But I think it's hypocritical for a group making money to criticize another group making money.

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 8:07pm

No offense nic, but don't group me with those big groups. You probably meant to reply to that Weaper guy

And you got your butt kicked on SKR, just like I got my butt handed to me this week by that group who's got Chinese connection. But hey, get over it. I will too.

I agree with you on the EGS thing (but hey, you should be happy for them, they kick Japanzai's ass for you. so you should be thankful instead of taking a little stab there... you know how Claudia is.)

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» DatCat on February 16th, 2012, 8:08pm

No offense nic, but don't group me with those big groups. You probably meant to reply to that Weaper guy

And you got your butt kicked on SKR, just like I got my butt handed to me this week by that group who's got Chinese connection. But hey, get over it. I will too.

I agree with you on the EGS thing (but hey, you should be happy for them, they kick Japanzai's ass for you. so you should be thankful instead of taking a little stab there... you know how Claudia is.)

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» Pakuen on February 16th, 2012, 7:06pm

I'm glad that pretty much everything I'm into is way dated and not popular (among english readers at any rate).

Some of them should have expired copyrights (by reason) but probably won't for quite some time more

-Pakuen

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» drunkguy on February 16th, 2012, 7:39pm

I'm glad most of the stuff I'm into is too perverted to be sold in the US. It may not be the last niche that any company would consider licensing but borderline-H manga is definitely close to it.

That said, I'm slightly surprised about Beelzebub. Guess we can look forward to censored penises now.

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» empathy on February 17th, 2012, 5:19am

Copyright is like 100 years, bro.

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» Banarok on February 17th, 2012, 7:55pm

50 years after the creators death, so its not impossible its longer then 100 years, but well mangakas have a stressful life so i guess with heart attacks the copyright will be roughly 70 years?

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» Uthred on February 16th, 2012, 7:37pm

Wow, what a lot of hypocritical self entitled assholes. You evidently read scanlations so any "moral" objection is wildly hypocritical at best and is realistically moot. You want strangers to translate this material for you so you have something to read but you also want to dictate the manner in which they cover their costs/justify the time spent on it? Because making money, quite often money that the publisher couldnt possibly make, is wrong but consuming the output thats fine? Are you against theft but buy stolen goods? To be honest I imagine the distinction here, unsubtle as it is, is quite probably lost on so many of you. I suppose I shouldnt be surprised at this unthinking level of entitlement, it is the internet after all. But still, cop the fuck on.

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» 0oKat~0 on February 17th, 2012, 2:55am

You've hit the bullseye with your words. Truly.

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» fleshcut on February 16th, 2012, 9:48pm

my group uses free webhosting, runs off a $50 donation from a guy over like 4 months ago, how are these groups making like $400 a month lol

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» Panda on February 17th, 2012, 12:06pm

That's what I said! I want my cut of the dough!

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» slyborg on February 17th, 2012, 12:11pm

This.

So much b.s. here, it's ridiculous. The point isn't that a group is "profitable" it's that they take any money at all, whether it's "donations" or Adsense dollars or what have you. If you are in it because teh olev for teh manga fans, you can EASILY do this without laying out a dime. You could dump chapters on 4chan, you could do as we do and run a blog on a free webhost and distro on Mediafire/etc. "Well we have all of these hosting expenses, we have to buy raws from Chinese triads..." BULLSHIT. You want a quick, flashy site and be able to turn out scanlations at maximum speed to attract and capture site visits/downloads ... holy shit, this sounds just like a BUSINESS thinks, eh?

And I actually have no problem with this - if a group wants to face potential legal heat for what they do and make cash, hey, go for it. But spare us the sanctimonious b.s. that you're doing it for the fans. The fans don't demand that you buy tanks to get them faster for scanning, the fans don't demand that you have 50 ms pageload times. They don't even demand that you scanlate manga at all. If you can't swing whatever costs there are in your mind for doing this stuff then don't do it.

I like guys like SaHa who straight up take money for stuff people want them to do and make no bones about it. Don't tell me that you need a Mangafox affiliation FOR TEH FANS and insult my intelligence.

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» fleshcut on February 18th, 2012, 6:22am

XD i'm not in it for the fans i am in it for me to read manga if the fans like it great if not who cares bigrazz that is what really bugs me, these groups are doing the wrong think of yourself first and if people like it they will read it. To many groups now pick up projects cause they think "oh this will be super popular, we'll get tons of hits". i'm to scared to post my stuff on 4chan(people on 4chan post my stuff though)

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» Gator100 on February 16th, 2012, 10:50pm

If online readers and scan teams are making all this money from ads, then how much is Google and other ad providers making? If Google pays mangafox a ton of money, it only makes sense that Google is making even more money from manga than mangafox is. The true problem lies with those that are paying out the money, not really those that receive it. Just who is PAYING for the illegal activity to happen? It's those dishing out the cash that entice people to turn scanlation into a business. Does anyone ever blame Google? (I just did!)

Yet no publisher can take on Google or take on those companies that buy ad space from Google.

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» dosetsu on February 16th, 2012, 11:01pm

So much justification on justification.

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» [][][] on February 16th, 2012, 11:56pm

or suddenly this site has a lot of pro-legal team commenting and making every news have a lot of comment. Well...imma get my popcorn

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» Rashidisw on February 16th, 2012, 11:57pm

I could understand DMCA notice about Bakuman, after all that series is licensed in english.

But what about Beelzebub, MangaUpdates still said that manga hasn't Licensed, yet?
http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=41265

Since Mx0 was axed, theres rumor saying that the most Nipponses feels retarded if they start liking manga series was already popular among Gaijins, before that manga popular in Japan.
And thats affecting sales in Japan.

Just like Mx0 on its time, Beelzebub also often featured as top ranked popularity in many manga aggregators.

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» Crow King on February 17th, 2012, 10:00am

Beel was probably just bought by viz and they just thought that it'd be nice to end competitions early on. In all honesty, I don't mind having ads and stuff in the manga that I read and donating on the occasion that I do have extra cash (I also read manga from the scanlators websites). I'd support viz and actually buy the manga they translate as long as its not like 8-10 dollars per volume and that they don't leave anything behind from the original texts. I remember buying one volume of Berserk and found myself reading something "softened". You can't do that. I'm a writer and I know how hard it is to set the mood using words and I'd prefer if you didn't change it. Also the art is censored which is pretty annoying because I'd prefer to just see it as it is. That's why the reason why I try to support the groups that translate the manga that I read is because I like their work better than viz or other official publishing. And in all honesty, instead of going after the people who do scanlations why don't they just help them and just make a big ol website where the readers can read from there? They can have age restriction or whatever and have like a membership and I won't mind because I'd rather have that than this big ass discussion about how to shut down NOEZ. In all honesty, if you want to be that big of a company then you need another big company. so in all regards, I'd prefer that instead of something as stupid as a protest that is usually goes into shambles and complete idiosyncrasy of a mental patient. A protest is useless unless you have a lot of people backing you up and also have the proper argument for it. RHS does what it does in order to survive and earn something. I don't blame them or other groups if they want to hold on to something like NOEZ. Humans are greedy beings; that's just how we are. I'm usually quiet but I thought I'd say something for a change.

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