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Manga Poll
Your favorite author has been charged and/or convicted of a serious crime (murder, rape, child prostitution, etc). Would you treat their fictional works any differently?
Make no difference, so I don't care
All works past, present, and future has been tainted
Anything new they work on is tainted
Only works that are related to the crime are tainted (i.e., plot point about rape)
 
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News Article
New Poll - Scanlating Licensed Series
I'm surprised we never had this poll before. It's actually a really good question to ask the community. The question was submitted by shiarisu.

You can submit poll ideas here
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: How long is too long for an anime series?
Choices:
12-13 episodes - votes: 70 (0.8%)
24-26 episodes - votes: 177 (2.1%)
52 episodes - votes: 924 (11%)
100 episodes - votes: 1636 (19.4%)
200 episodes - votes: 1024 (12.2%)
500 episodes - votes: 1277 (15.2%)
1000+ episodes - votes: 974 (11.6%)
It's never too long - votes: 2336 (27.8%)
There were 8418 total votes.
The poll ended: July 28th 2017

How many of you would actually finish a 200+ episode anime?...
Posted by lambchopsil on July 29th 3:00am Comments ( 33 )  [ View ]  [ Add ]
Comments

» residentgrigo on July 29th, 2017, 12:36am

The whole thing is illegal and ultimately bad for the industry, so let´s not kid ourself.
Go for broke and continue until there's an actual DMCA complaint.

MU itself hasn´t gotten one in quite some time it seems. Interesting.

thread

» calstine on July 29th, 2017, 12:41am

Quote from residentgrigo
MU itself hasn´t gotten one in quite some time it seems. Interesting.

Great, now you've gone and jinxed it. Maybe we'll be shut down tomorrow eek laugh (I'm only half-joking, tbh. I'm not typically superstitious, but the power of the jinx is scary!)

thread

» calstine on July 29th, 2017, 12:39am

I'm not even going to pretend that I considered the last option, but 1, 3 and 4 all have their merits. Suppose I could go with the first one, though I could also make a case for the fourth. Actually, the fourth might be better, since disobeying DMCA's brings too much unwanted attention to the scanlation community, reader sites, and download sites. But it's not like I've never read scans and e-book rips of the official English releases of unscanlated/dropped licensed series...

So, yep, I'll go with 4.

thread

» Reyalsdog on July 29th, 2017, 12:56am

Not everyone live where it was licensed, not everyone have money to spend on it, not everyone want to wait until official translations catch-up with ongoing (and that's assuming they translating magazine chapters as well, not only volumes), and official translations not always (to say the least) better than scanlation.

thread

» unya on July 29th, 2017, 2:40am

Yes, because USA isn't the only country in the world. Importing just cost too much in the end.

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» VawX on July 29th, 2017, 3:04am

Living in 3rd world country just make it really hard to find good licensed manga.

So option 3 or 4 is the best I can choose regarding this matter.

thread

» MinatoAce on July 29th, 2017, 4:53am

Yes!
Scanlation affects/boosts the quality, availability and speed from both official and unofficial sides.
So, It's needed for the greater good of the community.
An just as residentgrigo said up there, when pirating, go for broke. No "Honour" among pirates. Which is unnecessary imo.
Among the official/licensed ones, I like the initiative taken by Naver, with their LINE Webtoons. It's Fast, available in many different languages and of Good Quality, which is still improving. In such cases like this Pirating becomes unnecessary. So Heave Ho!!

Quote from residentgrigo
MU itself hasn´t gotten one in quite some time it seems. Interesting.

Quote from calstine
Great, now you've gone and jinxed it. Maybe we'll be shut down tomorrow eek laugh (I'm only half-joking, tbh. I'm not typically superstitious, but the power of the jinx is scary!)


MU in regular shouldn't get any DMCA as it's an Information sharing website, forum where you only enlist info and releases, without even giving the link. Just like in torrentz (now an alternative torrentz2), which is merely a search engine, unlike the IMMORTAL The Pirate Bay (yay!).
Only times it(MU) gets DMCA are like in the cases with Series Image, which gets removed locked in response.

P.S. Oh! Forgot to mention that, Scanlations who don't have a website or don't post their work via a website or blog(?), and simply posts via Torrent, IRC etc. doesn't get a DMCA Complaint notice to begin with. bigrazz biggrin

thread

» dreamer00013 on July 29th, 2017, 6:35am

How about "yes, if said licensed work is terrible in quality"?

thread

» LazyCat3 on July 29th, 2017, 8:57am

i don't get why manga makers are pissed that some poor souls from some God-forsaken countries are reading their manga online (illegal). if those people didn't find the manga online they definitely wouldn't read it because they can't find it in their country, so how is the mangaka losing money? because those illegal readers don't buy the japanese version legal even if they don't know how to read japanese?
i searched out of curiosity if i can buy manga in my country and all of them are in english and the cheapest is 13$ one volum; and this are the ones i found: One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Attack on Titan, Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragon Ball, D.Gray-man; i've never read any of this because i don't like the genre (the last one i didn't even heard of).

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» ceruleantear on July 29th, 2017, 3:09pm

I go with option 4. I love scanlations, but I don't want to see any scanlators get into legal trouble over them.

That said, I really wish that scanlators would be willing to pick up titles that were once published but the company went out of business. Being a yaoi fan, I have seen many publishers come and go and as a result many yaoi scanlation projects have been dropped, but never resumed. sad

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» Oniluap on July 29th, 2017, 3:46pm

I would agree with the idea of stopping if a series is licensed, but here's the thing: not everyone lives in the US. There's a TON of licensed series that aren't available in my country and it's almost impossible for me to acquire legally, and I think there are many others in a similar situation.

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» F_J on July 29th, 2017, 4:20pm

Hmmm.... Well, import fees are always so over the top. But it's like... hard if you're a fan when you're not part of the country. Then again, you wouldn't have been able to fan over anything without scans in the first place.. Urg...

I choose "As long a s the scans are ahead of the license" since that way I'm able to pick and choose the best/favorite volumes to buy since I use scans as a read and buy if I like type of thing.

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» Akatsubaki on July 29th, 2017, 6:10pm

Yes. Just because it's translated in english, get licensed in USA, then the fans in other countries couldn't enjoy it anymore. As long as they aren't making profit from those series, I prefer them to keep scanlating the series. There are many cases where the quality of the scanlators are better than the licensed ones which made me cringe when I bought the 'licensed' series.

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» cmertb on July 29th, 2017, 6:25pm

I chose "Never", which is what I try to practice with my own projects.

If it's licensed in English, don't scanlate it in English. Scanlate it in whatever other language where it's not available legally.

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» svines85 on July 29th, 2017, 11:59pm

Yup, never, what we're already doing as scanlators is questionable enough, continuing pirate publications of a title licensed in that language takes all the "questionable" out of it, now you're just plain stealing. You shouldn't need a DMCA notice to tell you right from wrong, a title getting licensed into the language you intend to scanlate it into completely changes the equation.

Though I'm not at all surprised by the poll..........well, a little bit I guess, I'd actually expect it to be 90%+ for "yes, always" because the vast (vaaaaaast) amount of scanlation fans are just that, fans, and nothing else. They're not involved in scanlations in any way, they're just consumers who don't care about anything or anybody but getting what they want, as fast as they can get it, and for free. None of them are ever going to say stop, hell, a high percentage of them don't even know how any of this works, they're just reading free stuff and waiting for more to appear.

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» felleccha on August 1st, 2017, 11:39pm

I chose #4 but I couldn't agree more with what you said about those "fans".
My favorite way to get mad and cringe at the same time is, go to any aggregator manga sites (mangafox, mangapark, mangahere etc) and read the comments from those "fans", you'll face palm yourself in no time.

One time I found a top comment which sounds something like this: "Don't you hate it when sites like mangapark uploads all these manga yet they're not completed? Why don't they finish one and move to the next manga!!"

The way they think how scanlated online manga works amuse me laugh laugh laugh

thread

» zarlan on July 30th, 2017, 6:59am

The argument that pirate copying is bad for the creators, is deeply flawed in multiple ways (some of which have already been mentioned and I don't wish to side-track the thread, so lets just say I don't buy it and leave it at that)
...though with anime/manga, you could argue that people go for fan translations, due to them being available far sooner (though that's not always true, anymore). That said...

That said, it depends on how good the licenced translation is.

If it's on par with, e.g. Tokyopop... (or, say, Chrunchyroll's subs [more like trollsubs] for Gabriel Dropout)
Continue scanlating and refuse to ackowledge that an official translation exists (as such "translations" could hardly be refered to, as such)

Every scanlator/fansubber/whatever ceasing to translate a work, due to it being licensed...
If it's because there is now a, at least decent, translation already being made, then it's a decent and respectable gesture and avoiding re-inventing the wheel ...or maybe more like pre-inventing? You get what I mean. (this won't stop pirating, mind. I've seen plenty of scans of translated manga)

If, however, it is just because it's licenced, even though the "translation" is shit...
Then it means that no one, other than those who know enough Japanese, to need no translation, will be able to properly enjoy the work.

In fact, I'd encourage people to revisit series that have had a badly "translated" release, long ago, and consider scanlating them.

thread

» cmertb on July 30th, 2017, 8:01am

I don't really see how giving out for free something a creator is trying to make a living off can be good for them, but whatever.

I'm more curious about these crap official translations. How do you even know they're crap? I don't actually read a lot of translated manga, official or scanlations, but I do know that the skill level of fan J-E translators (and I don't exclude myself) is well below that of professionals. If you closely look at a random selection of scanlated chapters, you will find that many (if not most) are rife with mistakes that a pro wouldn't make. There are all sorts, from insufficient knowledge of Japanese to even understand the original, to insufficient knowledge of subject matter to correctly express it in English, coupled with unwillingness/inability to research, and even the command of English is often lacking. So even if there is a crap official translation, chances are that the scanlation would also be crap, albeit in a different way.

thread

» zarlan on July 30th, 2017, 9:26am

Quote from cmertb
I don't really see how giving out for free something a creator is trying to make a living off can be good for them

I said that it's bullshit to say that it hurts them. I said nohing about it benefitting them (that's a complete separate issue ..not that I get why you wouldn't understand how it is beneficial to have lots of people know about you and your work...)
Quote
How do you even know they're crap?

Several reasons:
* A lot of the translations sound weird/bizzare/unnatural.
* A lot of the translations have characters talking in a way/manner/style (or lack thereof), that is completely out-of-character for them.
* I know some Japanese. Not to the level of having no need, at all, of translation (except with very easy reads, like Chii's Sweet Home. And if looking up kanji was less of a hassle...), but...
* I know some people who are fluent in Japanese (including professional translators), who have generally confirmed my assesments.
Quote
I don't actually read a lot of translated manga, official or scanlations, but I do know that the skill level of fan J-E translators (and I don't exclude myself) is well below that of professionals.

Based on...?
As you, yourself admitted, you don't read a lot of either. That means you are in no position to judge.

On what basis do you claim that all fan translators are inferior to all professionals? (keep in mind that all that "professional" means, is that you get paid, however much/little, for it. It says nothing of your education, qualifications or skill)

All of the mistakes you mention, "that a pro wouldn't make", are thing I've seen countless times, in professional "translations", along with even worse mistakes ...and intentional errors and changes (and no, I'm not talking about fully legitimate changes to idioms, phrases and the like, and similar things, that makes the translation less literal, but does bring it closer to the feel/meaning of the original)

Do those flaws exist in fan translations?
Certainly!
I've even seen ones thay are almost unreadable, due to being made by Chinese people with little to no understanding of English. (which doesn't neccesarily make them worse than some professional translations I've seen, mind you)
Not from all groups, though
...and the fact that shit fan translators exist, doesn't excuse shit "pro" translations, who have the gall to ask for money for their garbage and presume to call themselves pro translators (with fan translations, if they're shit, at least no one has to pay for 'em and no one gets paid for 'em)

There are shit translators AND decent/good translators among both pros and fans translators.
At no point did I make any claim, concerning which group (pros or fans) is worse/better, overall
...and neither does that issue have any relevance or bearing, on anything I've said.

Besides:
If a scanlator does a bad translation, another one might come along and do a better job
...but if you get a shitty professonal translation, then there is, essentially, no hope of a decent translation, ever.

thread

» svines85 on July 30th, 2017, 2:27pm

Quote from zarlan
I said that it's bullshit to say that it hurts them.


You're getting carried away with trying to defend something that can't be defended. Questions of quality, availability, none of that crap matters, you're trying to rationalize away black-and-white right and wrong.

If you're a scanlator that's stepping on the author and the publisher's toes by making and distributing your own version of what they're selling (which obviously is going to take sales away from them.......even if it's just one person who takes the free version instead of buying the commercial version.........who are you trying to kid that it's "bullshit to say that it hurts them"? O_o) then you're stealing from them.

There's just no way to get around this.

thread

» cmertb on July 30th, 2017, 3:50pm

Why do you think you understand the manga market better than the publishers who work in it? The claim that the mangaka and his intermediaries will somehow benefit from wider exposure lacks any kind of evidence to back it up, while the publishers who are supposed to understand the market believe the opposite. I tend to agree with the publishers simply because this isn't 2000 anymore, anyone who was ever going to get into the manga fanbase is already in it. Today, scanlation will result in lost sales and no gain to the fanbase.

Now, about translation quality, I don't need to read everything or even a lot to make a judgment. I simply need to have read a representative sample, which I have. I do catch pro tlers make mistakes from time to time, but it is really from time to time. Mistakes in fan translations are commonplace. I'm talking about unintentional mistakes specifically, intentional changes are a separate matter. In any case, I have yet to see an official tl that I would describe as "shit" due to it being unintentionally bad, so if you can point to any example (I mean provide an image, because I won't go and buy it), I would appreciate it.

I know that there are some fan translators who translate better than many pro tlers (actually, there are some pros in scanlation, interestingly enough), but we're talking about the average level here. And the average level is unfortunately not where you'd want it to be.

thread

» zarlan on July 30th, 2017, 10:35pm

Quote from cmertb
Why do you think you understand the manga market better than the publishers who work in it?

As I said, I'm not going to go into that issue here, so as to not side track things.
Quote
Now, about translation quality, I don't need to read everything or even a lot to make a judgment. I simply need to have read a representative sample

...and you think you can say what you've read is representative, because...?
Quote
I do catch pro tlers make mistakes from time to time, but it is really from time to time.

Oh really?
So pretty much everything Tokyopop ever released, for example, is time to time?
Quote
I'm talking about unintentional mistakes specifically, intentional changes are a separate matter.

...and far worse and inexcusable.
Quote
In any case, I have yet to see an official tl that I would describe as "shit" due to it being unintentionally bad, so if you can point to any example (I mean provide an image, because I won't go and buy it), I would appreciate it.

Why would I bother to remember something that is worthless?
But to mention what I can remember, and think of, off the top of my head:
Anything by the, thankfully no longer existing, Tokyopop, Kuchibiru Tameiki Sakurairo (I've downloaded the pro translation, scanlation and raw and compared them ...and both translations contained ridiculously basic errors, that even I would never be capable of making or comprehending how you could manage to make), the (as I've mentioned) Crunchroll Gabriel Dropout (anime) English subs, every translation of the Seikai series (be it manga, anime or the original books. Hell, the books are abridged, aside from having a preposterous translation)...
There are tons more, but...

As I've said, it's hardly something I'd bother to remember.

Oh no wait!
I just remembered an example. Not the best, perhaps, as it might not involve messing up the meaning and might not be quite to the level of shitty, but...
One of the pro translator friends I mentioned, has gotten criticized by some, for his Naruto translation, because he made Naruto sound like a bratty teenager (unlike in the English translations) ...to which he responds that Naruto sounds like a bratty teenager in the originals.
This means that the English translations (where he doesn't sound like that) mess up, on one of the basic fundamentals of translation.
One that I often see scanlators get right.
Quote
(I mean provide an image, because I won't go and buy it)

Just download pirate copies then.
It's not like anyone is losing any profits from what you would be buying anyway ...and you've already stated that you're willing to read (and make) fan translations, so it's not like you'd have any moral qualms about it.
(though in the case of Gabriel Dropout, you can simply watch it for free)
Quote
but we're talking about the average level here.

No we aren't.
As I said:
The average level had no relevance or bearing, on anything I've said or argued.

As long as there is a significant amount of shit pro translations (and there are) and a significant amount of good scanlators (and you just admitted that there are), that is sufficient for what I'm saying.

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» svines85 on July 31st, 2017, 12:27am

Quote from zarlan


>_<

All I basically hear you saying is "It's fine and I've got an answer for any argument because I want it."

Oh well, whatever, but a lot of what's come up isn't what was asked. All that was asked is if scanlations should continue if the title gets licensed, and the answer is no, never, that's plain stealing, folks. Practically no fan is going to turn down "free" over "costs money", so it's up to the scanlators to do the right thing and stop when this comes up.

Just find a new project, people, and be happy for the author who made it to the (really) big time smile

thread

» zarlan on July 31st, 2017, 1:07am

Quote from svines85
All I basically hear you saying is "It's fine and I've got an answer for any argument because I want it."

...because you hear what you want to hear.
What I'm actually saying, is that I'm not going to debate the issue here, because it's off-topic.
Quote
Oh well, whatever, but a lot of what's come up isn't what was asked. All that was asked is if scanlations should continue if the title gets licensed, and the answer is no, never, that's plain stealing, folks.

No, that answer is completely outside of the scope of the poll question.
Quote
Practically no fan is going to turn down "free" over "costs money", so it's up to the scanlators to do the right thing and stop when this comes up.

...
That sentence makes no sense.
If you ended it with "so you shouldn't do scanlations", then it would be coherent, but...

thread

» svines85 on July 31st, 2017, 8:00am

Quote from zarlan


Flailing wildly there, ain't ya? biggrin

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» zarlan on August 2nd, 2017, 5:42am

Quote from svines85
Flailing wildly there, ain't ya? biggrin

Yes, you are indeed.

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» cmertb on July 31st, 2017, 8:29am

Okay, I should clarify that my sample is representative of shounen and seinen demographic. And it is representative because it's pretty random, and sufficient in size to give me an over 80% confidence level with the assumption of total population in the specified demographic of 1000. It's good enough for me to make a judgment.

As for the specifics, so far most of your complaints seem to be about poor stylistic choices (which, I should point out, is highly subjective) or intentional changes. This is not the same level of error as basically not understanding the Japanese original, which is a glaring issue in scanlation. I would like to check the one specific example of basic translation errors you gave, Kuchibiru Tameiki Sakurairo, but naturally I'm only finding scanlations online. So if you could point me to where to find the official translation (by PM)?

And yes, zarlan, we are talking about the average level. Remember, I'm the one who started this thread in the conversation. My original point was that if you have a fan translation and an official translation for the same title, chances are the fan translation will be worse. You seem to argue that it's all worth it because it is possible for the fan translation to be better. To this, I can only say that there are many things in the universe which are possible, but not probable, so it is a very weak argument even from the utilitarian point of view, easily outweighed by the harm caused by lost sales.

thread

» zarlan on August 2nd, 2017, 5:40am

Quote from cmertb
and sufficient in size to give me an over 80% confidence level with the assumption of total population in the specified demographic of 1000. It's good enough for me to make a judgment.

80%? Based on... An assumption.
...
'nuff said.
Quote
As for the specifics, so far most of your complaints seem to be about poor stylistic choices

No. I have not made a single such complaint.
Quote
or intentional changes.

...which are far worse than unintentional ones.
Quote
This is not the same level of error as basically not understanding the Japanese original

...except that, that type of error, is quite a big proportion of my complaints.
Quote
I would like to check the one specific example of basic translation errors you gave, Kuchibiru Tameiki Sakurairo, but naturally I'm only finding scanlations online. So if you could point me to where to find the official translation (by PM)?

I'll do that, as soon as I get access to a proper computer (mine doesn't work at the moment. I'm writing this on smartphone)
...though I must say that I'm shocked by your lack of googleing skills.
Quote
And yes, zarlan, we are talking about the average level. Remember, I'm the one who started this thread in the conversation.

No you didn't.
Your first comment in this conversation, was a reply to my comment
...which makes my comment, the first one.
Quote
My original point was that if you have a fan translation and an official translation for the same title, chances are the fan translation will be worse.

Perhaps ...but that's irrelevant.
Quote
You seem to argue that it's all worth it because it is possible for the fan translation to be better.

No, I am pointing out the fact that fan translations many times (not all, certainly, or necessarily even most) ARE much better, with the official one being terribly bad.
Quote
easily outweighed by the harm caused by lost sales.

Now you're going off-topic, by going into arguments against pirate copying (need I remind you that any scanlation, license or not, is pirate copying?)
Besides: Why should horrid translations, be supported? Why encourage companies, to give people defective prioducts? (after all, it's a lot cheaper to make shit translations ...and if that'll do. If customers have no oher choice...)

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» Banarok on July 31st, 2017, 10:18pm

as the question it's written my answer is an instant 5.

i'm also all for translating the so far untranslated material and remove it as the volumes come out in the language in question.

do i like when i can read licensed manga without paying for it, yes very much but i prefer to buy them if i can.

i do however think that all mangas should have a few chapters available online just so you can know what you're getting into, they are quite expensive for the time it takes to read them especially if i need to import them .

thread

» juliarox214 on August 1st, 2017, 12:42pm

I really try to read the licensed version for stuff (right now Kimi ni Todoke and Akatsuki no Yona) but I can see that it is annoying when it's way behind. I don't like spending lots of $$ on stuff, I especially didn't when I was a teen and first started reading manga, but I have read a lot of manga from the library which is free. And I don't live in the US, I live in Canada, where licensed manga is just as available (and even more expensive, but that's life).

As for scanlating, I like to pick up series that are not licensed. If it was licensed, I would drop it. However, I finished a series that was dropped by Viz (B.O.D.Y.). I felt that the fans needed to know what happened.

And I can't say I haven't read ones that were licensed, and then scanned, and then posted onto manga sites. Which is probably more illegal than scanlating??

Usually, I'll go by the rule that if it is available scanlated, I'll check it out for free, and then buy it if I liked it. I'd rather buy something I know I already like than take a chance.

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» zarlan on August 2nd, 2017, 5:45am

Quote from juliarox214
And I can't say I haven't read ones that were licensed, and then scanned, and then posted onto manga sites. Which is probably more illegal than scanlating??

No, of course not
Why would you think that one is any more or less illegal than the other?

thread

» cmertb on August 3rd, 2017, 8:12am

1000 shounen and seinen titles officially published in English is a very solid assumption based on my extrapolation of a list of published manga on wiki and increasing the value I got for added safety margin -- naturally, the lower the total number, the lower my confidence interval becomes. So if you want to disprove this number, the ball is in your court now -- make your own calculation, rather than attempt to shift the burden of proof to me. Otherwise, this assumption stands.

Now I will grant that intentionally perverting a work of literature during translation is a deadly sin, and in those cases I'd love to say that I would condone continued scanlation but, unfortunately, I'm pessimistic about the chances of a fan translation being better either, like I've mentioned previously. Moreover, the example you provided of a company that engaged in such behavior (Tokyopop) isn't applicable in 2017 because they discontinued a few years ago. I don't believe this practice is standard or even frequent in the industry these days. So this is a question for you, since you claim familiarity with the subject: of the manga published today, what percentage has intentionally distorted translations? Also, since intentional distortion is a very subjective call, please provide an example of such a distortion, so we can differentiate between stylistic choices you personally don't approve of, and true perversions of the original plot.

Since it seems that you admit that in most cases scanlation is not better than official translation (even though you don't seem ready to admit that it is actually worse in most cases), I don't think there is anything left to argue about here.

The only conclusion left is that continued scanlation after licensing is unjustifiable on the grounds of quality in the majority of cases, and if you explain the current state of officially published manga, then we can also estimate just how large that majority is (I suspect it'll turn out to be a pretty vast majority, above 90%).

thread

» zarlan on August 3rd, 2017, 10:22pm

Quote from cmertb
1000 shounen and seinen titles officially published in English is a very solid assumption/.../

Actually, that doesn't matter and I was a fool for questoning you on it ...because I should instead have pointed out, as I now will, that you are again talking about proportions ...which, as I've said, is an irrelevant issue.
Quote
Now I will grant that intentionally perverting a work of literature during translation is a deadly sin

It's nice to hear that you acknowledge that, and that you have ceased to behave as if said act doesn't count as shitty or bad translation.
Quote
but, unfortunately, I'm pessimistic about the chances of a fan translation being better either, like I've mentioned previously.

You yourself have said that there are perfectly competent fan translators out there, so you are contradicting yourself.
Quote
Moreover, the example you provided of a company that engaged in such behavior (Tokyopop) isn't applicable in 2017 because they discontinued a few years ago.

They remain a perfectly good example of the kinds of bad translation, that I'm talking about
...and that was hardly the only example I mentioned. (I dare you to claim the CR Gabriel Dropout sub, is too old)
Granted, such bad practices might have decreased, after the worst (bit far from only) offender disappeared, but...
Again I remind you: The proportions are irrelevant.
Quote
I don't believe this practice is standard or even frequent in the industry these days. So this is a question for you, since you claim familiarity with the subject: of the manga published today, what percentage has intentionally distorted translations?

Again: irrelevant
Quote
Also, since intentional distortion is a very subjective call,

No it isn't. Granted some of the least eggregious cases could be argued, but aside from that...
Quote
Since it seems that you admit that in most cases scanlation is not better than official translation

No I haven't. Not in this thread. Not ever. You are putting words in my mouth. misrepresenting my views
...not to mention that you are, again, going into the same old irrelevant territory, again.
Quote
I don't think there is anything left to argue about here.

Since every single argument you're making, is the same completely irrelevant nonsense...
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The only conclusion left is that continued scanlation after licensing is unjustifiable on the grounds of quality in the majority of cases

...by which you imply that it would be justified in cases where the commersial translation is shit
...which means that you completely agree with what I've stated. That you completely agree with my original comment that started this conversation, with said conversation being all about you disagreeing with what I said in that comment. (that you have just stated that you agree with)
...
That doesn't seem to make much sense, IMO.
Why have you been spending all this time arguing against something you agree with?

As to the "majority"-bit.... (as well as that last bit, that came after)
Again: Irrelevant.

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