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Doujinshi:
Currently there is no limit on what is considered a doujinshi. We feel we need to narrow the scope instead of allowing anything. We will only be accepting doujinshi that are published and/or sold in stores (whether offline or online). A basic guideline would be that a release/series will only be approved if it can be found on http://www.doujinshi.org/. This means we'd be rejecting many of the shorter works, especially those from artists on http://www.pixiv.net/.
Please note that the MU definition of doujinshi is a derived work of an actual series. Original works are considered oneshots. There is no such thing as an "original doujinshi" on MU. This distinction has existed here for many years, so this last point is not a change in policy.
Novels:
We feel we need to bring the focus back to our primary purpose: manga/manhua/manhwa. Lately there's been a huge increase in web novels (I just did a CTRL+F with "Novel" on the main release page, and there's 114 instances). We will only be accepting novels that are directly related to existing manga, manhwa, or manhua (according to MU). This means most web novels will be rejected.
PS: We are still in discussions about what to do about artbooks and webtoons.
Comments (limited to first 100 replies)
» VawX on June 15th, 2015, 12:06am
So I thought rather than rejecting most released stuff, isn't better to enhance the filtering and make it more user friendly (it's already good but some people don't really care about it yet because either they don't know or they'r too lazy to apply the filter mmm...
» thevampirate on June 15th, 2015, 12:48am
» m64 on June 15th, 2015, 1:41am
if it's tl'ed/edited i don't see why it shouldn't be included on the site. i'm personally in favor of keeping everything on the site; again unless it's a server/db issue.
» deadphoenix on June 15th, 2015, 1:53am
» m64 on June 15th, 2015, 2:48am
» thevampirate on June 15th, 2015, 3:15am
» frostmachine on June 15th, 2015, 2:25am
» connerity on June 15th, 2015, 12:27am
The line between Korean manga and webtoons is so thin, there's no need to remove them.
It would be silly to lose highly popular series like Noblesse, Tower of God, etc.
» luispauloml on June 15th, 2015, 2:17pm
Taking a look at how it is changing, I don't think it's unreasonable to quit tracking webtoon releases. The number of released series is increasing but now we have big aggregators which are also official publishers (Tapastic, for Daum; LINE Webtoon, for Naver and which uses MU). It is worth point that they also accept releases from Western artists.
The quality of their releases (specially LINE Webtoon regarding typesetting) still needs to be improved, but I feel they are doing a decent job most of times.
» makoz on June 15th, 2015, 12:46am
» deadphoenix on June 15th, 2015, 12:46am
What about novels, well it is indeed to much on the moment. However their are more novels than their are manga, so that is normal. I'm not agreeing with it that just basically all those good novels are banned.
What about webcomics. Well, it's recommend that MU continues with them because it's only a matter of time and everything is a webcomic. Basically all manwha's have become webcomics, this movement will also start with the manga. Webcomics have some advantages as well for the publisher as for the reader. The reader has everything in full color and it's cheap or free, while the publisher only needs to do some mouse clicks and it's published, while publishing on paper is more complex.
What about artbooks, well it's a question mark for me I would only say to allow the ones that are made by the original mangaka.
» Sorcha on June 15th, 2015, 2:29am
Personally, I'm following 20+ novel at the moment and will have problem keeping track of them if MU de-list them. I don't want to check 20+ website everyday just to kept track of novel updates.
Since the feeling from ln/wn is practically the same with manga, why reject them? The large number of ln/wn in new release is simply because most people didn't know about ln/wn, and only added them here after the recent novel boom. Wait until several month and the new release number will decrease by itself.
Regarding doujinshi, artbook & webtoon
I agree about the new rules for doujinshi, but removing webtoon won't do. As for artbook, I agree with deadpheonix's suggestion to only accept official art-book from original artist of manga/manhua/manhwa.
» Laclongquan on June 15th, 2015, 2:33am
It automatically update news of release and link to the page. Currently, there's no database like mangaupdates so it strictly report news of release.
With the new changes in MU, I think Aho and MU compliment well each other.
Although, if MU delete the entry of non-manga novels then readers are out of luck concerning that entry.
May I interest you in a compromise: NO reporting on release page, but still silently updating in the entry page. Example: series A got a new chapter done on site Z, that release news doesnt make it to release page, but the entry page still keep the report.
In effect, it's like an enforced filter put on release page that hide all those non-manga novel news.
» Quantum Mechanic on June 15th, 2015, 2:48am
» RoxFlowz on June 15th, 2015, 3:12am
On the other hand, the aforementioned filtering does sound like a good idea to me.
» jonytep on June 15th, 2015, 3:30am
As for the novels,
-Could be added a new genre "Novel". It would help in the filtering;
-This is what I think would be an awesome feature: create a new section in the website, under "Releases", where the novel releases would be put. Something like "Novel Releases" would be nice, I think. It can't be that hard, right? Or can it? Then, there would be no need to remove any kind of novels, webnovels or not.
I'm saying this because there are web novels that are actually good and should not be left out, in my opinion... Stuff like Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou (Novel).
» thevampirate on June 15th, 2015, 4:25am
I do agree there should be some limits on doujin/webnovels because if its totally left open someone could start posting their Fanfics as OEL Novels, but series that are actually published (online or on paper) and are translated shouldn't be removed just because they've become almost as popular as manga.
» RebeccaMiyamoto on June 15th, 2015, 3:57am
This is a problem which is easily solved with user filters and categorisation, I implore you to do that instead.
» naeddyr on June 15th, 2015, 4:22am
Just yesterday I was wondering if I should ask about a Novel or Text filter category.
» TundraDweller on June 15th, 2015, 4:57am
No comment on doujinshi as I don't read them.
» Vocah on June 15th, 2015, 5:40am
» Draconic on June 15th, 2015, 5:52am
And removing them based on whether it has a manga or not? That's just simply insane.
Novels need a new genre, or they need to be in a separate group altogether, but removing them is not a solution. Why do you need to restrict this site to what it was originally meant to be? Why can't you let it be what people need and want?
» PROzess on June 15th, 2015, 6:02am
» Corfal on June 15th, 2015, 8:52am
OTOH, I agree with the sentiment in the context of removing novels (if it is going to be done regardless). If you're going to start removing novel submissions while keeping others based on certain specifications, removing all of them would make more sense.
» shadowfigher on June 15th, 2015, 6:28am
I will be sad to see Light novel disappear from this website.
Please don't stop LN to be posted here. I am sure a filter will be the best solution for everyone.
» auriga on June 15th, 2015, 6:36am
I agree with eliminating any grey area that may arise from multiple interpretations of what a "doujinshi" or a "novel" is. I'm guessing this is the essence of this move?
» calstine on June 15th, 2015, 6:40am
But at the same time, I don't want releases of novels by actual proficient authors that don't have a manga version to be removed from the MU database or filtered together with the others. Examples would be Kino's Journey (Novel), Ukikumo Shinrei Kitan (Novel), and Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria (Novel), just off the top of my head. Isn't there some way to standardise novels just like the aforementioned masterlist for doujinshi? For example, get rid of web novels by no-name authors and leave the ones by authors who're actually published officially in their countries (eg: those whose works are/were in print instead of just on a website)?
As of now I don't think webtoons should be removed, but perhaps if they become a plague like their novel counterparts... For now, maybe just have "webtoon/webcomic" within brackets after the title like you currently do with novels?
» naeddyr on June 15th, 2015, 6:53am
Please don't suggest that. It will just lead to tears.
» auriga on June 15th, 2015, 7:03am
The problem with webnovels is... Pretty much anyone can make one. I can start a blogspot site whenever I want, fill it with a narrative with some semblance of coherence and call it a "webnovel." Preferences aside, how do you distinguish my work from other webnovels?
» calstine on June 15th, 2015, 7:08am
Please don't suggest that. It will just lead to tears
I can suggest whatever I want, and so can you. That's the purpose of this topic in the first place, no?
And "gatekeeper of taste"? Hardly. I just feel that if we're going to put everything on the MU db like web novels and web comics by people who aren't officially published, we'll eventually end up listing original fiction (a la fiction.net of the english-speaking world), too, only in Japanese/Chinese/Korean. There should be a separate site for that. I don't come to mangaupdates to see Chinese/Korean/Japanese novels from obscure authors, I come here to see manga, and by extension manhua and manhwa (and light novels because they're pretty much manga with less pictures and more text). There needs to be some quality control, or else the huge influx of new series pages will mess up the site and make it difficult to find new titles we actually want to read through things like genre and category searches.
What MU will actually do is up to majority opinion, which currently seems to be in favour of keeping all the novels. I'm not going to post any more here, since I'm not in the habit of nagging -- I'll just wait and see, and accept whatever the site admins come up with. I suggest you do the same.
» Tiannu on June 15th, 2015, 4:33pm
I believe some translators just translate whatever they like though, so this will be interesting...
» cmertb on June 15th, 2015, 7:29am
Those who want doujins or novels can set up Novel Updates or Doujin Updates or whatever.
Not accepting anything whose source is self-published online seems like a good idea as well. Let there be a preliminary market filter before it is inflicted on the English speaking audience.
» Draconic on June 15th, 2015, 9:06am
Yeah, let's remove all the webcomics!
The Gamer? Get lost!
Soul Cartel? You still here??
Noblesse? Who needs it!
I don't read any of them, so I think this is a great idea!
Do you have any idea where this will lead? "It's not Novel Updates, it's Manga Updates." "Lets remove Manhwa next. I mean, it's Manga Updates. What are they doing here?"
Well, I'm not really worried about the future of this site. Let them remove the novels if they want to. I will probably remove MU from my bookmarks and homepage the same day, but who cares. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this will kill MU...
» cmertb on June 15th, 2015, 9:21am
In response to some others, let's not descend into absurdity. In a site dedicated to manga, it is perfectly acceptable to have manga related content. The original proposal even allows for manga based novels, not to mention manhua and manhwa.
But how are self-published original online novels related to manga? This is a good place to draw the line, even if it's somehow inconvenient to you. Otherwise, for my own convenience, let's also start indexing j-drama fansubs. And I'm sure someone will want anime too. What's the problem with that? If you don't like it, filter it out.
» Draconic on June 15th, 2015, 9:32am
Esactly. Mind telling me what's the relationship between "filtering them out" and "removing them"?
Manga based novels? Can't say I haven't seen one or two, but it's usually the other way around...
And what will they do, if they remove a novel, and the next week it's manga adaptation is announced?
» cclark777 on June 15th, 2015, 9:51am
Go to baka-updates for anime.
» LAucian on June 15th, 2015, 8:02am
» cclark777 on June 15th, 2015, 9:20am
Also for those who said remove everything but manga that includes SAO, Log Horizon, Slayers, Full Metal Panic, High School DxD and a bunch more that I don't feel like listing.
As for webcomics I can't stand reading them since they are like 4 koma which I also can't stand to read.
As for the Doujin, that can be removed in my opinion since it is all ether rape or yaoi my two most hated categories.
» crazyboutcute on June 15th, 2015, 9:03pm
You... haven't read many (any?) webcomics, have you? At the least, you've definitely never read any webtoons.
This just in: cclark777 does not like rape or yaoi! Therefore, any material containing elements of rape and/or yaoi should be removed so as not to interfere with his/her MU experience!
Do you even realize how moronic that sounds? This is a discussion on how to better streamline the site, not to censor Things I Don't Like (TM). Plenty of people enjoy reading stories with rape and/or yaoi in them, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
As to the actual discussion, I agree with the suggestion of an option to filter out novels, similar to doujinshi. I personally don't care for light novels, but they are irrefutably an important part of manga culture, and removing them entirely would be highly inconvenient to those who do read and enjoy them. As for doujinshi, restricting it to published works might help ease the clutter if there is a lot of Pixiv stuff making its way in, but I don't read much doujinshi, much less track it, so I don't know how severe the issue is. And for webtoons, they absolutely MUST be kept. They are a growing industry and share many of their characteristics with traditional manhwa and manga, and I honestly can't understand why anyone would even think to remove them. I wouldn't object to drawing the line at officially published webtoons and rejecting anything from the Challenge League and similar, though.
» kuroneko003 on June 15th, 2015, 9:22am
» Indekkusu on June 15th, 2015, 9:22am
Also have Holy'bell decided yet if non Japanese mangaka who are getting published by Japanese publishers in Japanese are allowed or not?
» residentgrigo on June 15th, 2015, 9:42am
I also agree and welcome the decision to have novels that don´t relate to our 3 different versions of Asian comics exiled as the sites focus has been slipping away during the last 2-ish years. These aren´t "harmful" and i have no problems with all this detritus on a personal level as i use the site as a research database first and foremost but the point of mangaupdates shouldn´t be these.
The ones mentioned by calstine (~ ) are proper (light) novels with a real Japanese publisher behind them so I assume that these are and should be save as long as they are available in English in one way or another.
Artbooks based on printed media are and should be fine but rare anime only exceptions as Gungrave and to a lesser degree Kidou Senshi Gundam UC - Prismatic Mobiles should leave to never return.
Our rare OEL´s haven´t been mentioned but clear Bande dessinée as Freaks' Squeele or regular American comics as Avatar: The Last Airbender - The Promise shouldn´t stay either but American manga (for a lack of a better term) as Twilight (KIM Young) or Interview with the Vampire: Claudia's Story make sense to me due to the form factor and the publishers involved.
@The admins: Webtoons need to be considered with the utmost of care as this is where the wind is blowing due to the slipping state of tghe printing market. Especially Korea has been a pioneer in a way few others countries are and first run manga or even collected volumes have increased exponentially on this front during the last few years.
holy`bell explained to me once that i should only submit webmanga that are backed by a popper web presence of a real publisher and thus refused the admittance of the self published The Penisman by ISHIDA Sui amongst others despite the responsible name.
That notion is logical and has my full support as it is very easy to set up a word document or excel sheet to keep count at home.
The site was and will lastly never be run by a majority vote and a functioning database can´t be. I also have and will have divergent opinions with the officials of MU and that is fine but this site is very well run overall and i thank everyone involved for their hard work and 100% believe that this trimming of fat and refocusing on the original goal of MU is a healthy way into the future and a plus for the manga scanlation scene. Thank you for your time.
» Shibiusa on June 15th, 2015, 9:48am
Keep in mind that not everyone has money to invest in proper paper publishing nowadays and that doesn't make them less of an author.
I can't believe there are that many people discriminating manhwa and manhua just because they are not called manga. They are eastern comics, they share some traits and that's good enough for me to keep them here. If you don't like them, just don't read them... I hope you are being sarcastic, honestly.
» 24/7 on June 15th, 2015, 9:49am
I think that it would be detrimental to the community and the side in general to just delete everything besides manga. I myself am but a lurker and cannot understand how much work it is to manage everything but I, and the majority of people I know who visit this site read manga, novels and sometimes doujinshi. The current side allows diversity and allows everybody to find what they like. If you shut everything but manga down it will inconvenience very many users.
Instead of deleting I would like to see a good filter system which can be applied. This way, nothing will be lost, no one will be inconvenienced and instead of removing, a bonus feature will be created which makes people happy. Users who read everything can still see novels and doujinshi and will not be disappointed and for the ones who want to focus on manga they can simply select "manga only". It should also not be that much more work in comparison to deleting, because instead of deleting you just tag them as novels.
Thank you very much for considering our opinions.
Cheers
24/7
» cranon on June 15th, 2015, 10:18am
Just a warning, people. Now would be a GREAT time to save any lists you may have, since some series are threatened to be taken out.
» cclark777 on June 15th, 2015, 10:48am
Also if you do go with getting rid of 21,496 series give us a heads up on the day it will be done so we can record the things we are reading and who is translating them. Thanks
» TundraDweller on June 15th, 2015, 4:01pm
I use MU for two things, mainly. The primary use is discovering new stuff to read. As for updates on my follows, Batoto and WordPress takes care of 80% of that part. Throttling the scope of the content available for the sake of purity would marginalize a considerable part of the community and their reading experiences. MU is really convenient as it is, and adding simple filters would increase the degree of convenience and user-friendliness. Not a few people read both manga and novels. And it is clear that in the coming days the interest in and support for novels would only continue to increase. MU doesn't need to feel threatened, but rather look forward to the future. Novels are not "invading" the community.
» anonuser222 on June 15th, 2015, 10:54am
Another suggestion would be to allow users to check off what releases they want to see on their User CP (Doujin, Manga, Manhua, Novels, Other, etc.) so that nobody has to step on anyone else's toes.
All I can say is that without MU, I wouldn't have been able to pick up even a fraction of the novels I currently read. Yes, this is a fresh account, but I don't feel comfortable using my actual account to make a post.
» Archer61 on June 15th, 2015, 10:59am
As this site had existed for the purpose of informing the reader when the translator had updated a chapter for a manga, novel, etc series and because all translators use this site, no other site had been created for novels or any other form of media(as far as I know) for the convenience of informing when a series had been updated and a way to keep track of how far a reader was into a title.
» mikako17 on June 15th, 2015, 11:19am
As for webtoon/comics, I agree with what residentgrigo and others have said about it. Comics, especially ones in South Korea, are moving more to the web and since I believe that site is first and foremost a site dedicated to Asian comics, allowing webtoons/comics that aren't self-published here would be the best way to go. Personally, I use I different site for self published webcomics.
» silver and blue on June 15th, 2015, 11:28am
» Dumber on June 15th, 2015, 1:34pm
» xgemina on June 15th, 2015, 3:24pm
I don't really care about the doujins as exhentai is really the place you want to go to see if anything new is out.
That being said, it basically sounds like BU wants to go back to being niche instead of being a convenient one stop place to find information.
» thischinksays on June 15th, 2015, 3:56pm
I still read manga, manhwa, manhua, and web comics, but I've also branched out into light novels and web novels.
It was great having one site for everything.
Ultimately, it's up to you guys and what you think is best for the site. If this change comes into effect, I'll simply have to find an update site for translated foreign novels.
It's not like I'll stop using MU. You guys still have one of the best search systems in place, after all.
» Chaoskitty on June 15th, 2015, 4:11pm
As for Novels. I would like to keep those around. They are pretty closely related to manga and light novels tend to come with a fair share of comics and images.
» sillyblob on June 15th, 2015, 4:13pm
I like getting updates about them, and the only place I get that is here.
Clearly, novels and graphic-novels are 2 different things so I can understand why there might be a move to not have them on this site, however I really appreciate having them here.
If they are to be rejected in the future, would it be possible to have a subsection of the site dedicated to novels? like in the menu on the right beneath the manga search, possibly in the same style as the Baka-Updates tab.
» AquarianDemocrat on June 15th, 2015, 4:26pm
(Note that this is not true for doujinshi.)
Have you thought about launching novelupdates.com?
» jgrey on June 15th, 2015, 6:00pm
While the change might encourage some replacement for tracking LN updates, A LOT of people are using B-U to track new releases and their favorite novels, and this change would pretty much destroy their main source for organization.
I know B-U has historically been about manga, but I just don't really see a reason why it can't incorporate web novels when it already has light novels in the database. No harm in adapting to the times that I can see.
But if the admins want some physical evidence that users dislike seeing novels mixed with manga updates, you could always put up a poll.
» auriga on June 15th, 2015, 6:37pm
As I mentioned in a previous comment, webnovels are a grey area in that anyone can make one. Light novels are fine because you can trace them back to publishers, but I guess that isn't always the case with webnovels. You will probably argue that this makes them no different from doujinshi, but with the proposed changes to how doujinshi are treated it still will not be considered by MU.
In other words, MU is just trying to be consistent (and therefore fair) in how it treats all submitted media.
Long story short: if the webnovel in question can be 1) traced back to a publisher or 2) published and sold as a doujinshi it will most probably not be affected by this move. But if said webnovel just appears in some personal site it's gone. Same thing with doujinshi/webmanga.
» eyeshield777 on June 15th, 2015, 6:39pm
» hahhah42 on June 15th, 2015, 6:54pm
Just to clarify - would the new restrictions on what constitutes an acceptable doujin be applied to self-published, original works as well?
In other words, would releases from a self-published, original comic that is freely available online be approved?
» In Valen`s Name on June 15th, 2015, 6:58pm
In the case of doujinshi, I don't read them so can't comment on them so much (a lot of them are hentai and should belong in their own genre section anyway, just like there's already separate web listings for releases of anime series that Baka-Updates also moderates - see link: http://www.baka-updates.com/releases.php ).*I love the anime listings, by the way: I'm glad baka-updates still reports on the latest anime releases, since after the SubWire folded, there's nothing else quite like it. (Another reason to put doujinshi, or at least hentai titles, in their own section: do you honestly want ordinary readers to come to baka-updates and see a disturbing hentai title like 'Private Rape School,' for example? It makes all the regular manga titles look bad just by association, at least to innocent public eyes. That's why I think this category needs its own [red-lit] space, heh. I recall that the old Lurk IRC channel did something similar, putting it behind a web portal link called 'Innocence Lost' or some such.)
With regard to novels, which I've become a fan of recently, I note that many manga in the past are derived from them anyway, so no one can say that novels don't have a relation here. Also, having novels listed is just as crucial to the fun and utility of this place as manga, manhwa and webtoons are. With regard to traditional content, I note that a lot of scanlation groups have gone bust in recent years and there are fewer and fewer quality titles available to be read now, even though the series may be left unfinished (there are too many of these to count already). I guess all the original scanlators have graduated school and gotten real jobs now, maybe that's why. Because of that, with the recent popular influx of more novels lately, maybe it seems like novels are drowning the rest out, but I think that's only because traditional manga titles are becoming fewer and fewer (or am I wrong?). It's sad and frustrating but I'm definitely seeing such a trend. I'm glad that webtoons (mostly Korean right now) are starting to make real inroads in this space as a partial replacement, and the quality of many of these titles are high (*see The Gamer, Song of the Cloud, Orange Marmalade, for examples of this). In my opinion both webtoons and novels are providing a welcome alternative for all the readers to enjoy even if there aren't as many traditional manga titles to read now. Thanks to webtoons and novels there's more life to the website than there would otherwise be, I think.
In the case of novels (my particular focus here), they definitely have their place and should be honored as such. How to filter out 'amateur novels' from the quality, professionally-supported novels is an issue, of course. I guess by researching/keeping track of pro novel publishers (both online and print organizations), that's the best way to do this so that the quality of the novels can remain good for everyone without also reporting the junk. (Just so long as great titles like the ones I've listed below in this post won't get left out and ignored, that would be far too tragic.)
With novels generally, if it annoys the traditional-minded minders of this website, they could simply create an alternative section (a sub-page) listing like there already is for anime, then we'll still be able to keep up with the newest releases of both manga and novels and no one can complain, can they? And a third for doujinshi too if you like. (The archive listings in baka-updates are also valuable for both manga and novels, that's why having baka-updates listing the novels here too is needed. No one else is providing such a service, right?)
The owners/moderators of this website should be trying to make this website more fun and useful to its fans, not less. Over the past five months, I've discovered the following great novel titles thanks to the baka-updates website: (K=Korean ; J=Japanese; C=Chinese)
- Ark (K-novel) *****
- Death March (J-novel) ****
- Konjiki no Wordmaster (J-novel) *****
- Douluo Dalu / Combat Continent (C-novel) ***
- Rakuin no Monshou (J-novel) ****
- Risou no Himo Seikatsu (J-novel) ****
- Knights and Magic (J-novel) ***
- Overlord (J-novel) ***
- Mushoku Tensei (J-novel) ****
- Zhan Long (C-novel) ***
- Altina the Sword Princess (J-novel) ***
- Log Horizon (J-novel) *** (also an anime already)
- Isekai Mahou wa Okureteru (J-novel) ****
- B Group no Shounen (J-novel) *** (so far)
- Kenja no Mago (J-novel) ***
- Magic, Mechanics, Shuraba (C-novel) *** (so far)
- Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei (J-novel) **** (also an awesome anime already)
- Close Combat Mage (C-novel) *** (so far)
- World Teacher (J-novel) **** (so far)
- Yuusha Party no Kawaii Ko ga Ita no de, Kokuhaku Shite (J-novel) ****
- Tate no Yuusha no Nariagari (J-novel) ****
- Hachinan tte, Sore wa nai Deshou (J-novel) ***
All of these titles are pretty great in my opinion, even if the translations for some of them still suck a bit. Also, even though a lot of the newer novel titles seem to involve the same theme of someone being kidnapped/summoned/reincarnated into an alternative fantasy world (with RPG elements, heh), that doesn't mean the stories in question are boring. Far from it. A lot of them are engrossing and leaving you begging for more.
So don't make it hard for us readers to find these interesting titles, I implore you, that would make things a lot less fun for everyone. And a fun read is the whole point of having Baka-Updates here at all, isn't it? Otherwise why have we kept coming here every day for so many years? Just to admire the fonts?
UPDATE: In the case of doujinshi, as some commenters have just suggested to me, maybe I'm being too rude to them, but I'm nothing if not fair. Their own listings within baka-updates would also work (on a sub-page), even if I have no personal interest in them. (Their quality and scope is usually inferior to both manga and novels, however, so I see them as third tier titles at best. That's just my bias, however, so I shouldn't talk about them any more than this.)
» auriga on June 15th, 2015, 7:13pm
Not all are getting the axe. It's clear from your post that you did not understand the announcement.
You should actually care because what MU is proposing to do to doujinshi is exactly the same as what it is proposing to do to (web)novels. For you to say that it's okay with doujinshi but not with novels is - I'm sorry - hypocritical.
Then why shouldn't the progressives be the ones to create their own site?
I'm neither traditional nor progressive (and I think it's stupid for anyone here to categorise members as such), but this proposal of yours is just hilarious and self-serving.
» nakie08 on June 15th, 2015, 8:02pm
As for doujins, I have no idea so no comment.
Also, this would be a very good subject for a poll.
» auriga on June 15th, 2015, 8:18pm
» In Valen`s Name on June 15th, 2015, 8:32pm
When talking about webnovels that are 'not traced to professional publishers' (whether print or online organizations), are we talking about some total amateurs who may have merely posted their own unedited, unreviewed novel on their personal blog or something? Or are we talking about something else? Maybe some clarity would help here.
» auriga on June 15th, 2015, 9:26pm
That's pretty much how I see it. If those works are allowed then even fanfiction should be allowed.
But of course, I'm hoping my understanding of the situation is correct and in line with the admins'.
» nakie08 on June 15th, 2015, 9:32pm
» auriga on June 15th, 2015, 9:38pm
Also, as a regular reader of doujinshi I can tell you that the proposed policy changes to doujinshi are exactly the ones for novels. MU simply wants to be consistent and fair with how it handles all media.
» nakie08 on June 15th, 2015, 9:45pm
By that definition, even an LN, which ofcourse would have been quality checked by a professional editor, would be taken down if it doesn't have a manga adaptation.
» auriga on June 15th, 2015, 10:39pm
I guess the point I'm making is that users can make a very strong case for LNs (regardless of adaptation) and other similar novels. Almost a hundred comments in and only very few have pointed this out.
At the end of the day, though, I couldn't care less if the admins push through with these policies unamended. The fact remains that Manga-Updates is a free and non-essential service (and it is MANGA-Updates); that we are being asked for our opinions is already a big deal, and I am very disappointed that a lot of users are not handling the situation rationally.
» nakie08 on June 16th, 2015, 12:49am
And giving comments(heated or otherwise) is not irrational specially since they themselves are expressly asking us to do so. We all realise that MU is a free site and we are all grateful. Expressing our opinion on how it should be improved is a sign that we are.
» nakie08 on June 15th, 2015, 9:11pm
» auriga on June 15th, 2015, 9:33pm
» GhostWriter on June 15th, 2015, 8:41pm
MU has been here for a long time to help us pursue (one of) our interests, but now its users and their interests have changed. This has always been a community site, and I hope it will continue to be. I know that this change would benefit the quality standards we set for ourselves, but at what cost? In my opinion, it's the difference between technology adapting to our needs and us adapting to our technology.
Just some food for thought: What if a novel without relation to manga/manhwa/manhua gained popularity and got a manga adaption, possibly even one we purged from MU? Wouldn't it have to be readded then? Would that be worth the hassle?
» kevmasterzoc on June 15th, 2015, 8:55pm
» In Valen`s Name on June 15th, 2015, 9:06pm
» Chandalen on June 15th, 2015, 10:12pm
» Necrophades on June 15th, 2015, 11:49pm
I'm supporting the genre filter idea for these category
» naeddyr on June 16th, 2015, 12:25am
At least in that case you could let us keep the WNs, and add WNs with translations if they get an LN.
But I'd still prefer if you left all novels, webnovels and light novels alike. There is already a huge hurdle for both of them--that someone starts to translate them! There's so much overlap between WNs an LNs as it is that only difference from our perspective really is just whether you have deadtree version; both kinds get translated, after all.
» licorice on June 16th, 2015, 6:02am
Artbooks... depends. If they're related to previous work, they should be allowed since they ARE manga/manhua/manwha related.
People are understandably upset, but they need to be reasonable and understand: manga-related content is why this website was started in the first place. The web novel thing has just gotten out of hand. If it's not manga-related, it shouldn't be here. Simple as that.
» blake77 on June 16th, 2015, 9:17am
1) Has actually been published
or
2) Is posted on a major site (for instance http://syosetu.com/) and is complete or at least has regular updates
or
3) Is posted by an author with published work.
» cclark777 on June 16th, 2015, 7:20am
» train93 on June 16th, 2015, 7:30am
But I support the narrowing of doujinshi accepted to the site.
» ImmLff on June 16th, 2015, 8:20am
1) Since you said that only derivative works are considered doujinshi here, does that mean that your proposed rules change will not affect so-called "original doujins"?
2) Announcement does not make it clear if proposed rules change will apply to all novels or only web novels. Do you intend to limit all novels or only a subtype of them?
3) Do you intend to remove any of the previously present information/entries from the database, or only reject the newly added ones?
But anyhow, I don't understand why you would want to remove/limit useful information when it is relevant to interests of significant part of your userbase. You would just lose part of your followers and gain nothing in return.
If it's an issues of not having enough people to sort and monitor new entries and change requests, then you should recruit additional staff from long-time Updaters, rather than narrow scope of the site.
All in all, I agree with this comment:
This is a problem which is easily solved with user filters and categorisation, I implore you to do that instead.
» Yousuke on June 16th, 2015, 9:26am
I would very much prefer if the novels stayed. I realize they increase the workload for our mods in the long run, especially with some translators dumping 4 to 5 chapters a day. However it's still manageable IMO. If at all necessary you could get more trustworthy mods. With the premise of otherwise removing novels there should be enough volunteers.
Doujinshi on the other hand.. It would be great it they stayed ofcourse. Frankly though, I don't see a need to track updates for them. They're basically standalone shorts. And thus are even more tedious to save and check in this database. If possible doujinshi should have a somewhat separate existence on this site. For example without creating new series entries and solely managed by updaters themselves.
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