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New Doujinshi Rules In Effect
The policy changes we previously announced for doujinshi will now take effect in the form previously stated. We are narrowing the scope instead of allowing anything. New policy is as follows:
We will only be accepting doujinshi that are published and/or sold in stores (whether offline or online). A basic guideline would be that a release/series will only be approved if it can be found on http://www.doujinshi.org/. This means we'd be rejecting basically everything from artists on http://www.pixiv.net/.
Please note that the MU definition of doujinshi is a derived work of an actual series. Original works are considered oneshots. There is no such thing as an "original doujinshi" on MU. This distinction has existed here for many years, so this last point is not a change in policy. As a natural extension to the previous paragraph, oneshots are also only allowed if they are published and/or sold in stores (whether offline or online).
PS: This means we will eventually remove many doujinshi releases/series that don't fit our standards anymore, otherwise users may continue to see them as acceptable (when they're not).
PSS: A continuing policy is to only accept series entries for doujinshi and oneshots that are scanlated
PSSS: The previously mentioned policy changes about novels are still under discussion, so nothing is changing for now.
We will only be accepting doujinshi that are published and/or sold in stores (whether offline or online). A basic guideline would be that a release/series will only be approved if it can be found on http://www.doujinshi.org/. This means we'd be rejecting basically everything from artists on http://www.pixiv.net/.
Please note that the MU definition of doujinshi is a derived work of an actual series. Original works are considered oneshots. There is no such thing as an "original doujinshi" on MU. This distinction has existed here for many years, so this last point is not a change in policy. As a natural extension to the previous paragraph, oneshots are also only allowed if they are published and/or sold in stores (whether offline or online).
PS: This means we will eventually remove many doujinshi releases/series that don't fit our standards anymore, otherwise users may continue to see them as acceptable (when they're not).
PSS: A continuing policy is to only accept series entries for doujinshi and oneshots that are scanlated
PSSS: The previously mentioned policy changes about novels are still under discussion, so nothing is changing for now.
Comments (limited to first 100 replies)
» deadphoenix on June 20th, 2015, 1:15am
It is a good thing that MU slims down with the dj, however I hope this won't affect my favorites.
Can we get a message if a series is removed from our reading lists?
Can we get a message if a series is removed from our reading lists?
» QueenVIP on June 20th, 2015, 1:24am
The series/releases that has and will be removed, will they be announced?
It may be a hassle, but it would be cool to list the daily series that has been denied for the week if there are any.
It may be a hassle, but it would be cool to list the daily series that has been denied for the week if there are any.
» illya_ on June 20th, 2015, 2:10am
2nd this. (unless extra work is involved) giving out a txt-dump with the names of the removed Doujinshi would help a lot of people.
» QueenVIP on June 22nd, 2015, 7:56pm
Quote from illya_
2nd this. (unless extra work is involved) giving out a txt-dump with the names of the removed Doujinshi would help a lot of people.
Not only will it help allot of people, it would also give members a chance to defend a certain unpublished doujinshi that may be, in fact, published. I am certain there will be plenty of doujins in the future being removed because the moderators couldn't find proof of publishing when it could be proven when given new hardcore factual information.
But will a text-dump be possible? About how many series or releases get denied every week? I'm very curious because the moderators also deny some series (webtoons/manhwa/manhua) that are published but aren't scanlated.
Do they also deny added manga series from Japan that aren't being scanlated yet? Because I know for a certain that MangaHelpers.com does a weekly "New Manga Shout Out" that haven't been scanlated yet and I am sure mangaupdates add their titles and summaries that are listed there as well. So why are those series accepted but not manhwa/manhua webtoons? Is there a controversy that I don't know of?
The moderators even allow OEL manga that aren't even qualified to be shown any scanlated releases. Why?
» auriga on June 22nd, 2015, 9:00pm
I'd just like to say that there's a distinction between *release* moderators and administrators. Us release moderators are not authorized by the system to do the stuff you just described; pretty much all we can do is add/remove/edit stuff that appears on the Releases page.
It would also be helpful if you can list the titles you are talking about.
It would also be helpful if you can list the titles you are talking about.
» kihi on June 20th, 2015, 1:34am
I'm quite ok with this, it really disappointing when you thought it's dj but turn out to be a 4-koma gag parody.
» Azula on July 4th, 2015, 3:37am
I'm not liking this rule change, but whatever, I guess creating my own updates sites is gonna need to happen after I finish learning how to code.
» hahhah42 on June 20th, 2015, 2:59am
So are you going to delete the associated forums for those series that are removed as well?
For example, if you were to come to the conclusion that Akazukin to Yasashii Ookami was never properly published or sold, would this thread be deleted?
For example, if you were to come to the conclusion that Akazukin to Yasashii Ookami was never properly published or sold, would this thread be deleted?
» cclark777 on June 20th, 2015, 6:13am
Isn't that listed as manga not doujinshi.
Also out of pure curiosity (since I don't read doujinshi) would ones sold at comic convictions be included as sold in stores?
Also out of pure curiosity (since I don't read doujinshi) would ones sold at comic convictions be included as sold in stores?
» lambchopsil on June 20th, 2015, 10:14am
Comic conventions count as "stores"
» cclark777 on June 20th, 2015, 10:27am
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.
» hahhah42 on June 20th, 2015, 12:59pm
Quote from cclark777
Isn't that listed as manga not doujinshi.
You apparently didn't read the first post in the thread:
Quote
Please note that the MU definition of doujinshi is a derived work of an actual series. Original works are considered oneshots. There is no such thing as an "original doujinshi" on MU. ... As a natural extension to the previous paragraph, oneshots are also only allowed if they are published and/or sold in stores (whether offline or online).
Note that I have no idea if that particular series was ever sold or not, I merely chose it as a possible example.
» Indekkusu on June 20th, 2015, 3:26pm
» Trejon on June 20th, 2015, 8:50am
Well, i hope that you can only use a filter and allow novels to remain here... its the only place where one can search novels to read and then read the manga of said novel when they make one if it dosnt have one...
» MinatoAce on June 20th, 2015, 10:13am
Hmm...that see quite right...
So, the Free Fan-made ones aren't allowed anymore...just the paid ones...
Well...I'm cool with it, as long as original free ones(one-shot, series) aren't being rejected...don't know 'bout others, but, only DJs are no big deal for me ~! ^^
So, the Free Fan-made ones aren't allowed anymore...just the paid ones...
Well...I'm cool with it, as long as original free ones(one-shot, series) aren't being rejected...don't know 'bout others, but, only DJs are no big deal for me ~! ^^
» cclark777 on June 20th, 2015, 1:11pm
No I read it, but it appears that I misunderstood it as only applying to doujinshi oneshots and not manga oneshots, rather than both.
» meridianna on June 20th, 2015, 6:54pm
how about anthology?
i mean parody manga about other series which is published by official publisher, translated or not.
because technically, it's not canon yet official.
i mean parody manga about other series which is published by official publisher, translated or not.
because technically, it's not canon yet official.
» lambchopsil on June 20th, 2015, 9:17pm
Officially published stuff has always been allowed
» bekyuubi on June 20th, 2015, 9:17pm
Ok, maybe you need to expand to novelupdates.com to accommodate the recent influx of novels? I think it's better that way.
» Zedman on June 22nd, 2015, 12:29am
Isn't there a site like that around? I believe it was called aho-updates.
» Erska on June 24th, 2015, 11:50pm
That page is basically automatic updates from popular translator RSS feeds (as far as I've heard/seen)
mangaupdates is so much better, and actually contains useful info about the novels. (Series are connected through useful tags, recommendations, genres. They also tend to have a Picture, a synopsis,reviews and forums, and everything is nicely presented... and to add to that you can create lists, and color releases by genre.)
mangaupdates is so much better, and actually contains useful info about the novels. (Series are connected through useful tags, recommendations, genres. They also tend to have a Picture, a synopsis,reviews and forums, and everything is nicely presented... and to add to that you can create lists, and color releases by genre.)
» Laclongquan on June 27th, 2015, 8:35am
Quote from Zedman
Isn't there a site like that around? I believe it was called aho-updates.
To be clear, it's just like a rss bot who post updates of submitted pages on a website.
It's not like MU database where you can track full info of this or that series and info of the writers.
It's very convenient, but it's not MU.
» FormX on June 20th, 2015, 9:21pm
Quote from lambchopsil
This means we'd be rejecting basically everything from artists on http://www.pixiv.net/.
Uh some artists(including professionals) post promotional images or previews on pixiv and then sell it at Comiket and online.
You should probably rephrase that as something like "doujinshi only posted on pixiv".
» cclark777 on June 21st, 2015, 7:15am
I don't want to be rude but you said that they were just promotional images or previews, which would mean that it is not a finished product. This may be a weird analogy but can you say that a game demo is an actual game? You also say that it will be sold at a convention or online. Lambchopsil said earlier that things sold at a convention would be allowed.
» rumbleking1995 on June 22nd, 2015, 10:39pm
But isn't doujinshi by definition Fan made work that in some way modifies the original content of a series or is a story made by a artist circle not of official release like Yandere Kanojo (strated out as free web novel then was picked up ). Also why not put these works into a new category by themselfs i mean just removeing them defeats one of the main purposes of this site which is to give out information on releases that are current or old. The reason i bring this up is that this site allows many to connect to groups that are working on the project that they are following at the moment this site also serves to give updates on the satus of works,artist,compaines, and licensees . Also what about the groups who scan these works this would mean the basic disbanment of these groups with there support dwindling leaving them understaffed.
» auriga on June 23rd, 2015, 12:28am
I suggest you read, reread, and understand the announcement. Only self-published works that were never available for purchase/were only posted online will be removed. Most doujinshi will be untouched.
» rumbleking1995 on June 23rd, 2015, 7:49am
well i did read it before i made my statement and my statement is still the same maybe if you understood the statement posted by the administration then you would see my statement is valid
» auriga on June 23rd, 2015, 7:39pm
Okay, then; let me tackle your statement piece by piece.
A doujinshi is anything that is self-published. This means that stuff like Koi + Kan, which was published independently, is technically a doujinshi.
However, Manga-Updates operates under its own definition of doujinshi, which only covers self-published works that are derived from existing series. This means that Kikurage's Koi + Kan is not considered a doujinshi under this definition, but their Guilty Crown dj - Watashi o Tsukatte!! is.
Not all doujinshi will be removed.
What will be removed are titles that were neither sold in conventions or online. An example I can think of is Love Live! dj - Christmas Nya, which IIRC was posted on Pixiv.
Why should MU be responsible for what unaffiliated groups do? As harsh as it sounds, at the end of the day MU is a free non-essential service that answers to nobody.
Same as above, and slippery slope.
You'll also be surprised to discover that a lot of the affected groups don't really use MU to gather information. To begin with, MU *technically* does not allow untranslated series to be posted, so it's not a good place to look for completely untranslated doujinshi to work on.
Quote
But isn't doujinshi by definition Fan made work that in some way modifies the original content of a series or is a story made by a artist circle not of official release
A doujinshi is anything that is self-published. This means that stuff like Koi + Kan, which was published independently, is technically a doujinshi.
However, Manga-Updates operates under its own definition of doujinshi, which only covers self-published works that are derived from existing series. This means that Kikurage's Koi + Kan is not considered a doujinshi under this definition, but their Guilty Crown dj - Watashi o Tsukatte!! is.
Quote
Also why not put these works into a new category by themselfs i mean just removeing them defeats one of the main purposes of this site which is to give out information on releases that are current or old.
Not all doujinshi will be removed.
What will be removed are titles that were neither sold in conventions or online. An example I can think of is Love Live! dj - Christmas Nya, which IIRC was posted on Pixiv.
Quote
The reason i bring this up is that this site allows many to connect to groups that are working on the project that they are following at the moment this site also serves to give updates on the satus of works,artist,compaines, and licensees .
Why should MU be responsible for what unaffiliated groups do? As harsh as it sounds, at the end of the day MU is a free non-essential service that answers to nobody.
Quote
Also what about the groups who scan these works this would mean the basic disbanment of these groups with there support dwindling leaving them understaffed.
Same as above, and slippery slope.
You'll also be surprised to discover that a lot of the affected groups don't really use MU to gather information. To begin with, MU *technically* does not allow untranslated series to be posted, so it's not a good place to look for completely untranslated doujinshi to work on.
» rumbleking1995 on June 23rd, 2015, 8:20pm
First let me say this excuse my fallacy usage i tend to do that when i see a short time window on topics involving policy changes. So to continue as i find my point holds little value to you on this issue at the moment mr.auriga might i suggest that a different course of action be taken. like for sake of argument a publicpoll for this change and the second change
» auriga on June 24th, 2015, 7:29pm
A discussion was already held last week. Hardly anyone opposed the proposed policy for doujinshi.
» hahhah42 on June 25th, 2015, 12:55am
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'd really like to know why the admins have decided it's in MU's best interest to remove scanlation information from the database.
I just don't see how that improves the site.
I just don't see how that improves the site.
» auriga on June 25th, 2015, 4:27am
You know what? At first I was 100% behind the admins, but given how they want to restore MU's identity as a database for East Asian comics I realized that this move is actually, well... contradictory, to say the least. I understand their stance on novels, but on the other hand I think they should actually relax their policies on self-published comics.
So I'm with you with wanting that question answered.
So I'm with you with wanting that question answered.
» That3rdGuy on June 25th, 2015, 6:42pm
These "novels," in my experience, are basically just the dialogue and SFX of a manga w/out the pictures. Can they really be called novels? Either way, I wouldn't consider these novels to fall into the manga category. To me, manga is just Japanese comics. I've never heard of a comic with little to no pictures. I say take 'em down. They're an eyesore 
As far as webtoons go, I say keep them. I don't know if it's still under discussion, since it wasn't mentioned in this latest thread (though it was mentioned in the first thread notifying members of possible changes). They are basically manhwa made for easy reading on a mobile device, so the panels are just in a different order than traditional manhwa. On the other hand, some titles are made by those who don't live in Eastern Asia (or not is Asia altogether). It's a bit tricky, but I say keep them for now.
As far as webtoons go, I say keep them. I don't know if it's still under discussion, since it wasn't mentioned in this latest thread (though it was mentioned in the first thread notifying members of possible changes). They are basically manhwa made for easy reading on a mobile device, so the panels are just in a different order than traditional manhwa. On the other hand, some titles are made by those who don't live in Eastern Asia (or not is Asia altogether). It's a bit tricky, but I say keep them for now.
» T1 on June 28th, 2015, 11:10am
That's why they aren't called novels but lightnovels or webnovels...even in Japan. 
Most of those translations aren't really translations but machinelation. The text have been through Google translate or some other translation editor program and a dude have been making a continous flow through the stuff that made sense. That's not really a translation where the nuances and complex sentences are gone.
The best thing is when you visit the groups sites you can mostly read: "I just want to tell you that I don't know a word of Japanese but I'm still doing this...also donate moar money"
Also I agree that they have to be taken down. This is mangaupdates not novelupdates.
Most of those translations aren't really translations but machinelation. The text have been through Google translate or some other translation editor program and a dude have been making a continous flow through the stuff that made sense. That's not really a translation where the nuances and complex sentences are gone.
The best thing is when you visit the groups sites you can mostly read: "I just want to tell you that I don't know a word of Japanese but I'm still doing this...also donate moar money"
Also I agree that they have to be taken down. This is mangaupdates not novelupdates.
» krytyk on July 4th, 2015, 4:01am
About novels, limit the rules to webnovels. webnovel chapters are just way too short, from 1000 to 2500 words at average. Resulting in the flood of updates. Leave light novels (the published works), those never have less than 15000 words, and the average is at around 30000-35000.
That would effectively cut down the amount of novel release spam.
Yes, I'm biased because I only do light novels.
Though, it's a way to partially retain the Japanese light novels and cut down on the non-published works (I mean, they're more like original fiction than anything).
PS: Yes, I'm comfy announcing my light novel release updates here.
That would effectively cut down the amount of novel release spam.
Yes, I'm biased because I only do light novels.
Though, it's a way to partially retain the Japanese light novels and cut down on the non-published works (I mean, they're more like original fiction than anything).
PS: Yes, I'm comfy announcing my light novel release updates here.
» Thailin on July 26th, 2015, 1:19pm
I'm really not understanding why doujinshi is a problem because technically it still a form of manga, even if it is a derivative and not an original work. However I really only want to see doujinshi on Manga Updates if it is at least partially scanlated. It's not helpful when you actively download and read things like Hetalia doujinshi, where there is literally hundreds of titles that are scanlated to have anything at all here which is not.
I used to not care either way about the Novels but if robot-translating them is becoming increasingly common, then I think all the novels should all go. The only exceptions should be for novels that have a manga based on them plus are being translated by a group/individual that is actually translating them -- no untranslated stuff or robot-translated stuff.
I used to not care either way about the Novels but if robot-translating them is becoming increasingly common, then I think all the novels should all go. The only exceptions should be for novels that have a manga based on them plus are being translated by a group/individual that is actually translating them -- no untranslated stuff or robot-translated stuff.
» misc on August 23rd, 2015, 7:44am
Uhm, what about scanlation of only a part of an anthology doujinshi, which consists of a lot of smaller doujinshis from different authors? Are these releases still allowed to be reported? If yes, which format should they be in?
For eg, Group XYZ releases scanlation of title ABC inside anthology MNO. Should the release title be only 'ABC' or should it be 'MNO chapter ABC' ?
For eg, Group XYZ releases scanlation of title ABC inside anthology MNO. Should the release title be only 'ABC' or should it be 'MNO chapter ABC' ?
» lambchopsil on August 23rd, 2015, 7:51am
The latter
» misc on August 23rd, 2015, 8:44am
What if 'ABC' is too long to fit in the permitted length for the field of chapter name, and won't be displayed properly?
» lambchopsil on August 23rd, 2015, 11:59pm
You can always add it as a regular doujinshi release and add that name as an associated name for the series entry
» misc on September 3rd, 2015, 3:39am
That's basically the whole point of my initial question.. 
In the end it seems that both ways of reporting dj releases work in various circumstances according to both of your replies regardless of what you said in the first one
In the end it seems that both ways of reporting dj releases work in various circumstances according to both of your replies regardless of what you said in the first one
» lambchopsil on September 3rd, 2015, 7:56am
That's the beauty of the associated name field. As long as it links together into the same series entry, I'm good with that
