For the millionth time on a series I love, all the comments are complaining about cliches. (Honey x Honey Drops if you must know)

I just don't understand whats the problem with them? I mean it's SHOUJO. Shoujo tends to be about ROMANCE. How can you really mess around with Romance?! I mean guy meets girl. They fall in love....Ta DAH!

To be honest I typically don't notice or care. Sure it is nice to be original but with a million different books not everyone can be completely original.

Not to mention there is a REASON they are cliches. BECAUSE THEY WORK.

Why do you hate/love/are indifferent to Cliches?

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It's pointless to create new work if it's the same crap over and over again. Yeah, it's difficult to be original, but at least try.

Most of the shoujo cliches I hate are the insulting ones. I'm a girl, but I'm not swooning and melting every time I see a hot guy, and I don't need a boyfriend. It seems like every shoujo manga features an idiotic girl and an overly aggressive or arrogant guy. I'm not interested in reading something so completely offensive and preposterous that after the first chapter I'm fuming with rage. I have had quite enough of watching a dunce be a doormat for some borderline-rapist bishie, thank you.

There are some shoujo cliches I find funny, however, like the old "childhood friend" bit. Those poor guys never win love triangles.

Nothing really, in fact, I love and hate them. But that usually all depends on how the author incorperates a cliche into their manga.

No offense to you and the manga you seem to like, but upon reading the first chapter of Honey x Honey Drops I found myself gagging.

Why? Not because it's a cliche, but rather the weak characterization.

I love cliches because they, as you've said, make the manga work. I honestly doubt there isn't a single manga out there with a bit of cliches in it, because most have them. But what I also hate is the over use of certain cliches.

For example, girl falls in love with popular boy. And for what reason? His supposed sizzling hot looks of course. I agree with camchan above. Shoujo cliches like that are insulting ones. Stupid heroines don't really help the story either.

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*__* I'll have what she's having... please~♥

Honestly, I'm fine with the cliche.

Camchan and Khmershinobi have already stated the weak heroine.
If she is going to be weak from the start, she should at least have some sort character development. But, usually, the male lead spoils the girl and she pretty much stays naive and ignorant.

Cliches are only dumb if the main heroine is dumb.
Originality really wouldn't matter if the character is dumb.

In the end, it's not about the direction of the story, but the way the story is told and how the narration is done. From my point of view, this is very important. They way the girl narrates in the first few pages already hints the direction of the story.

Last edited by Joziess at 9:10 pm, Jan 4 2010

There's something called Originality.
Seeing the same characters, same plot, same everything gets boring and unexciting. Like that manga...Honey x Honey Drops. I really really hated that manga. I saw nothing special about it. Poor girl who's "average" but is the cutest girl in the manga paired with the bad boy rich boy. Overdone, unoriginal, and just not...interesting.
At least try to be different. Like someone said up there.

Also there are some cliches that just make me want to gag. Like falling in love with your rapist, a stupid heroine, sadistic guy, love triangles with the guy's best friend, bitchy characters, etc.
It's fine most of the time, but come on, at least have a plot that doesn't end up like this, "Normal girl meets bad boy, he rapes her. She falls in love. He dumps her. She cries. She becomes emo. Guy feels sorry and comes back. He "changes." She hugs and kisses him and gives herself to him. Live happily ever after."

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Cliches by definition are stuff you've seen before, so they usually make the story less interesting. You feel like, "Oh, why am I wasting my time reading this when I've read this a million times before."

But not all cliches are bad. Sometimes they create a comfortable framework/starting point for a story that has its own originality (e.g., a story that starts with a guy and girl meeting by coincidence, a character developing a talent/skill, or a character taking care of a child). And stories that make fun of cliches, veering it into the territory of camp or parody, can be refreshing (e.g., Boku wa Kiss de Uso wo Tsuku, Don't Touch Me!, Ouran High School Host Club).

In the end, it all depends what the author does with the cliches, rather than the mere fact that they exist. After all, if there is a cliche I don't like (e.g., the pathetic heroine), I don't dislike it because it's a cliche; I dislike it even the first time I see it.

But of course it's true that stories that have no speck of originality and are purely cliche are horrible. I always have more respect for a story that at least tried to be original, but didn't pull it off, than a story that takes no risks.

Last edited by Odette at 1:00 am, Jan 5 2010

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Reading: Kingdom, Sangokushi, Historie

I guess I have to agree with the weak character. But I never really saw that as a cliche. I just saw it as bad characterization. Especially if there is no character developement. And that goes for any character male/female on a tv show, movie, book, whatever.

In all honesty Hana Ni Nare makes me vomit blood. I don't know why I continue to read it. She is so dumb.



Ouran High is ridiculously funny. I LOVE the cliches in there. Tamaki.
Boku wa Kisu just made me angry. I didn't see the parody in there. It was just... bad. I really didn't see the point of the manga. But it WAS pretty...

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It's not the theme most consider cliche, but the plot devices [Rich guy / poor girl, bullying, fevers, fainting, first kiss, hot springs and a general lack of sense] that people get sick of.

It's kinda like always eating the same flavor of ice cream over and over and over and over and over... Kinda gets boring after a while.


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For me, I don't mind the cliches shown in shoujo manga. In fact, I'm not bothered by it. I guess it depends on the reader.

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I read so much mangas, I'm too lazy to watch anime!

Manga I'm loving ATM: Heart no Kuni no Alice

True, with so much written is kinda hard to write anything original anymore.
the fact of the matter is there are barely any new concept being created so most just develop existing concepts, which in time turn into cliches. what makes a great manga these days for me has little to do with the story but more to do with it's characters. to put it simply cliches work as long as it's different and the characters are interesting enough to make it work, if the characters are dull, predictable and practically stupid beyond any comparison then the cliches doesn't do the the manga any good.

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The problem with cliches is that they make the story uninteresting. Once you're familiar with the cliche, then you can pretty much predict how the storyline is going to develop: This & that will happen because that's how it always works. Well then, what's the point of reading a series that won't surprise you in any way?

I mean, if I already know exactly how things are going to turn out, and what types of plotlines are likely to occur based on the cliches the mangaka seems to be favoring in the first volume, then reading past that is pointless because the series has already spoiled its own plot for me because of the cliches.

You might say that watching the characters grow is reason enough to read a series, even if it has cliches, and I would ordinarily agree with you, but ONLY if the characters are well-developed to begin with. I tend to find that the more cliches are series has, the less developed the characters are. (If the mangaka can't be bothered to think up a unique plot, the s/he surely can't be bothered to give her characters some psychological realism.) And I find cliched characters far worse than a cliched plot since they barely resemble human beings (they behave according to the dictates of the cliche, not according to what someone with that personality and in those circumstances would be likely to do), which makes it almost impossible for me to care about what happens to them.

Nothing, I enjoy cliche's its just not as interesting as original shoujo manga like Lovely Complex or Koukou Debut.

You can spot cliche shoujo by observing the plot
1. Girl has bad impression of guy
2. Girl falls in love with guy
3. Finally they get together
4. Usually round this part they have random challenging women and random problems like another guy tries to rape her or something.
5. Dark Problem with guy's past arises, (he needs to stop being a pussy and solve his problems). This problem almost always involves a dead relative, like a brother, or something that separates him from his family
6. Problem solved. Some fantastical, charming ending. (marriage in most cases)

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Those two also have dozens of cliches, but have characterization that's solid enough that the cliches don't overpower the story. It goes back to what drives the story. Are cliches a tool to tell the story, or are they the story?

Minami Kanan seems to treat characterization as optional, so her characters read a lot flatter, so the manga ends up reducing to getting from cliche a to cliche b; basically they're sleeping together 'cause she's poor and he's rich. [m]Ouran[/m] rests on the same poor/rich cliche, but Hatori Bisco uses it as the springboard for her story about a group of kids with lots of issues. Ouran's got some actual themes, as do most of the stories that use cliches well.

That's a beautiful set of cliches. I think Japanese people are really weak now because they always catch colds from not drying their hair after showering. Seriously, does that ever really happen? Just grab a towel.

Personally, I find cliches extremely irritating. They're so easy to spot and predict. Everytime I read a romance with a love triangle, there's a hot new guy / popular dude in school who is probably not the best choice for a healthy relationship, and then there's the doting, loyal childhood friend who is actually a good, healthy match. Childhood friend never wins. I don't bother reading anymore since I haven't seen one win yet. My favorite ending would probably be the (hopefully) badass heroine just saying, "One of you is abusive and the other is like a brother. I want neither, kthxbye." If anyone knows of a series where this happens, please tell me. That'd be epic.

I know it's hard to avoid cliches, but why not at least try avoiding them? Some of the best manga I've read have realistic characters, sweet romance, and true dialogue. Plot isn't even that important when there's great characters holding the story up.

Childhood friend wins in Absolute Boyfriend
Childhood friend is most likely gonna win Wild Ones

Apparantly in the end of Uwasa no Midori-kun!! the good guy wins. Which is why I stopped reading it. But it really through me for a loop.

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