sigh
i can see that you cant refute any facts so you decide to attack my personality
that's called an ad hominem and its what people generally resort to once they know theyre wrong. id like to revive my quote of classification, since youve gone and done the exact same shit as random
"The Holier-Than-Thou Vegan

The vegan is overly angry about the injustices inflicted upon nonhumans, the planet, and our own species. They believe that they are godlike and have the power to make others feel guilty.
Therefore: Any guilt is a result of their attitude, not one’s own moral inconsistencies and so no lifestyle change need be made.
Essentially, the meat-eater is very uncomfortable with self-reflection and judgement."

i added my 2 cents to the topic, got argued with random, then your ass jumped in and all i can say is dont bite off what you cant chew
and yes, obviously i am too stupid for knowing facts and environmental science, the ways the economy works, and for being open-minded. mhmm. whatever you say, since your guesses obviously equate to how the world works, oh godly one.
and either way, even if you think im a piece of shit, that means i represent all the millions of vegans out there? that we are all carbon copies of each other? well, once again your brilliance shines through, wise one. using that logic, every one who eats meat is as illogical and dumb as you are. and i know thats actually not true.
and i already know about ecosystems and mathmatical technicalities, which is why i know youre wrong.
a bible? a documentary video taping animals is a bible? okay then. again, i must go by your all knowing words. since its so important to you, there are many other sources
Gary Yourofskys Speech
Farm to Fridge.
Behind The Mask
The Superior Human
The Sexual Politics of Meat: a feminist vegetarian critical theory
Oppress This!
Forks Over Knives.
Steve Best - I Want A War
i just gave you the most basic and introductory video. im not telling you to read this shit, but im not illogical enough to get info from only one source.
and also, it seems you have seen the video then? if you are talking about it
either a) you didnt watch it and therefore dont know shit so shut the fuck up
or b) you saw and still try to justify it which would make you the most disgusting piece of shit ive ever had the displeasure to encounter
i hope its the former, really.

________________

Everyday I'm tumblin'

I have a question for vegetarians.
What is your reason to be one ?

I think I've heard it's because animals are living creatures too. That meat is murder?
What about vegetables? They are living as well. They eat, breath, and live too. (yes not in the same way as animals do, but they still do). Wouldn't eating vegetables be the same as promoting the killing of them? Couldn't you say eating vegetables is murder as well?


Or is it more you see yourself as an animal, and eating another animal would be an extension of cannibalism.


Not trying to say you I'm just wondering more why you are/want to be one.


EDIT (pretty much ignore the top half)
As Scyfon pointed out in the post below I did a horrible job asking what I wanted to ask.

My question was more to those who think meat is murder. Couldn't you also think that getting eating vegetables (plants) is murder too? Since both plants and animals are alive.
However, I'm not really in the mood to discuss this aspect.

I do want to ask - if your reasoning to being a veggie is because you don't want to support the cruel meat industry, do you really think that by just you not eating meat anymore is helping out?
It would be like a kid in the neighbor is getting hit (or even bullied) by everyone in the neighbor, just because you think it's mean and decide not to partake in it. Does that really make a difference?
It just makes me think of "If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem."

Wouldn't promoting and trying to make everyone go to a different meat provider (one who doesn't treat the animals cruelly), be better than just not part taking? Thus making the mess up part of the industry get fixed.

But I don't feel like auguring about this either.
I'm just getting my 2 cents out there.


-Sidenote: by making these comments I am in no way shape or form, trying to be disrespectful, or persuade you to eat meat again. Just question more what about plants, and what other things you can do to have a big impact against the animal cruelty. (If you just stopped at eating meat).

Last edited by kitty1826x at 8:34 pm, Jan 8 2014

________________
Yes yes, I know I make longwinded comments, but that's just me >.<
I should proof read my comments more, but I won't...
So keep in mind I'm filled with typos

Check out FAQ and Forum Rules if you haven't yet.
For errors linking in threads

Congratulations! You just asked the same question the OP asked. GJ failing to hijack a thread.

________________

Everyday I'm tumblin'

Yes, that was my intent to hijack this thread from the OP.


I would say my post is more a failure on wording my question. It was directed more to those who think meat is murder sort of thing.

(But looking back, I see most reasons why someone choose to be a veggie, is because they never really liked the taste, and/or how the animals are treated in the meat industry.)


I will agree I didn't word my comment correctly. I'll make an edit in a bit.

________________
Yes yes, I know I make longwinded comments, but that's just me >.<
I should proof read my comments more, but I won't...
So keep in mind I'm filled with typos

Check out FAQ and Forum Rules if you haven't yet.
For errors linking in threads

I'm not a vegetarian. I haven't got a problem with vegetarians in general. Quite a few of my friends are. I will say one thing though. I would not date a vegetarian. When I told a girl I wouldn't date her because of it she told me it shouldn't matter to me if she ate meat or not. I can understand that view but to me I want to be able to cook and share a meal with my significant other. Now I could just myself eat vegetarian meals, and I occasionally do, but I like a lot of things that aren't and I want to be able to share them.

I eat what I want, you eat what you want
I don't know how many vegetarians I've met because I don't care

but I know two vegetarians

One is my friend I've know him for a few years, he's been a vegetarian for most of his life and only in the past few months did I find out
Guess What neither of us care what the other eats

Two is a , she believes she is better than me because she does not eat meat and none of her pets do either
we both keep rats that's how I know her, she makes her rats be vegetarians like her
her rats live to 1 - 2 years
my rats live to 3 - 4 years (oldest rat was 4 year 6 months old)

mine are omnivores like me and all my other pets
I keep trying to tell her that rats are not meant to be pure vegetarians but she just yells that I'm a monster and goes into a rant of how much better she is than me


________________
Smiles Conceal Knives - Lynn Flewelling.
There is No Such Thing as BAD Words.

I read that these questions were not meant to be disrespectful and thank you for that; they are however, seemingly condescending for a vegetarian like myself. I've heard those questions so many times that at this point I just tell people I am vegetarian for personal reasons and leave it at that.

First of all, the generalization that everyone who thinks it is wrong to eat meat for moral reasons feel obligated to solve the problem of the meat industry is flawed. Thus making the kid hitting example a false analogy.

In addition, the proposed solution won't be helping to fix the industry either. While it is more ethical to go for cruelty-free meet providers, it isn't necessarily regulated and thus people can just attach whatever labels (if it isn't under FDA guidelines which themselves are kinda loose) they want to the products they sell. Also, and perhaps the most important reason that this would fail, is because the business of factory meat farming is a multibillion dollar industry. Most people will most likely continue to buy their meat due to cheap cost, ease of access, advertising, etc.

Basically, an individual who buy his or her meat products from cruelty-free meat providers would have the same "success rate" as an individual who refuses to eat meat in solving the aforementioned problem.

This will be a rant of someone who had to stop being a vegetarian after 6 or 7 years due to health problems, and had to pick what to eat and what not.

I agree that the example with a boy is a bad one.. if you really want that one, this should be more of a case, of:
in your neighborhood everyone has a kid he's abusing. One person not taking part means one less kid being abused, while in your example there was no difference (yours would be more like everyone was eating the same chicken which is not true).
One kid means a lot, doesn't it?

I have nothing against people eating meat, but I really hate hypocrisy - if you are able to see how they are living, to maybe kill them yourself, and it you accept it - you have every right to. But sometimes I feel that many people think that nuggets or sausages are plants..
The other think is milk and eggs. The life of a milk cow or an industry hen is nothing to be jealous of, maybe even more than the meat one, and ends the same way. So.. where's the difference? In EU you can check what environment has the hen been living in (obligatory stamps from 3 - cage to 0 - village), but with milk it's harder to do.

/end of rant

If I don't eat mostly proteins and fats I'll become more ill, so it's a different case that it was for me before. I had to re-think everything a couple of times and I think that I can deal with killing itself (I have fangs for some reason) but I don';t want to take part in HOW we keep animals. That's why fish. Catch, suffocate, die. The 3 and 2 eggs are out of the question too.

So..to me it'd be something like being honest with yourself?

A question to others - would you eat a dog/cat/horse and why?


Last edited by chrum at 3:38 pm, Jan 9 2014

I think the reason why people don't eat dog/cat/horse is because they are more useful alive. Dog is a loyal animal and can be trusted to safeguard cattle, house etc. Horses were used some 100 years ago for transportation. I am not very sure about cats. It might be because they help catch mice. However, I think you get my drift. Our ancestors certainly saw their usefulness and avoided eating them, unless it was a do or die situation.

If you consider other animals (cow,chicken etc), usually the females population is left alive because they provide eggs or milk and the males are sent to slaughter houses.

I won't explain my personal reasons. There are more than enough on this thread already. And I don't have anything very different to contribute.

________________

Assumptions? Dairy cattle are out in the meadows the whole summer—that's how you get good milk from them. And they need to be taken good care of otherwise too, else you wouldn't get milk. I'm no expert on any of this but I think this is pretty basic. I've no idea where you got the idea that dairy cows live in bad conditions. Or perhaps you know something I don't.

As for your take on fish. The amount of meat in a fish vs. amount of meat in a pig. That's more lives vs. fewer lives. And it takes time until they suffocate. Of course it's different if you fish smaller amounts yourself and hit the fish in the head to kill it. With pigs and cows it's a bolt gun to the head and they never even knew what hit them.

As for horse's meat, well, it's good meat. Horses aren't grown for food. When a horse is put down or dies it's meat can be used for food. The exception is if it's had certain medication. There was a commotion about horse meat being found in some package that was only supposed to contain calf meat or something along those lines in Europe awhile back. Why was it such a big thing? Because when there's something in a package that should be there it's not controlled, and that means the animals were given medication that made them unfit for food or else they could have been grown in very poor conditions.

As for what kitty said:

Here's an example of ethical vegetarianism. The Dalai Lama is vegetarian every second day. He used to be a vegetarian but because of his health declining his doctor told him to eat meat. Now he eats meat every second day, and prefers the meat of bigger animals as this consumes fewer lives. The last point is kind of exclusive to Buddhism or similar philosophy though.

Actually I remember saying that before too, let's see... Here's what I said:



________________
Far-off places with sweet sounding names.

Well, I was born in a vegetarian family, never had meat, never wanted any. Quite glad I'm born this way, as I'd be pretty sick of myself otherwise.

Rather than right or wrong... it's more a given to me. I can't think of it any other way. Being born into a religious family means that I get trained to think that all lives are equal, whether I originally thought so or not. Now, all lives AREN'T equal, and it's not the killing part that I have any qualms with, but in any case, they are lives all the same. Animals are lives, and humans are lives. Put it on a scale, I like animals more, thus I'd sooner eat human meat than animal meat. It's kinda the thing, you never knew anything else, so your train of thought is just too different from others. I asked a classmate once why he doesn't eat his pet while he ate other meat, he didn't get it. I didn't either. Our way of thinking is fundamentally different.

Other than that, it's probably just cause I think it's plain gross. I just can't interpret meat as food, to the point that even the smell disgusts me. Had my fair share of problems with that strong smell in the cafeteria... And that small closed space in an airplane during mealtime... It's weird how I came to love blood but can't stand the sight of any meat wrapped in plastic in a supermarket. Plain weird. Heck, I can't bring myself to eat those fake meat sometimes either! I mean... ugh... The more your imagination starts working, the grosser it gets. Do we really NEED things like that?

As for vegans... well... I never was one, and never got the reasons for it either. No animals died, right? If you say we're stealing food -which we are-, honey is the same too, and practically any food we eat is stealing from others. Survival of the fittest, no?

The exception to my dislike for people eating meat is probably when they either hunt for themselves, or when it's so that nothing goes to waste. Like, when your dear friend dies and you eat them? It's romantic, so what. It's really that I just think humans normally don't understand what they're dealing with. Hunters that acknowledge they are taking a life for their own selfish gain, or any other person taking a life, I have absolutely no problem with. Off topic, but a good example would be I like assassins, while I simply look down on grudge murders, especially if they just end up regretting and moping afterwards. Professional duty can change a lot. Again, survival of the fittest, I just can't take the ignorance. Hypocrisy, I tell you.

To the person saying plants count as murder too... well... for me, to be honest, it's just that I don't care. Murder or not, I don't care. Why? Cause I don't particularly like, or have any sentiments in plants. Thus, it's none of my business whether they "die" or not. I mean, if you say it like that, germs are lives too, and I recognize them as lives in fact, whether or not they are. Dunno, don't care. Thought about it once or twice, but really, why should I govern all the lives out there?

________________

Unfortunately in America most milk cows are treated horribly and are made to have babies so they produce more milk or other bad things. I have differing opinions on the rest of what you have said but I'll just stay out of this because humans are ridiculous.

Ohhhhh, pretty twisted way of thinking........
I like it

I like meat,
meat is good, so are veggies...

________________
Tournament Round 1
Round 2

I would like to become vegetarian, but vegan is just weird...... three days later and I'm a strict vegan over night.
I went vegan because I didn't like supporting and being involved in the murder of over 50 billion animals every year.

What is wrong with dairy? The calves are killed. And once the cow has stopped producing as much milk as she did in her prime days she is killed too. Dairy cow is a main ingredient in hamburger meat for fast food restaurants. Besides, drinking a cows breast milk, that is so gross.

What is wrong with eggs? All male chicks are killed because they are useless to the industry, weather the farm is free range or not. Like dairy cows, chickens will be killed once they start producing less eggs than before. Plus, who wants to eat a hen period. Ugh.

What is wrong with meat? Humane slaughter. Those words should never go together, there is nothing humane about slaughter, not when the majority of us can so easily go without meat. And seriously, all meat is, is glorified road kill.

What we need to remember is that the large farms that produce the majority of our animal produce are businesses, they are out to make money. They will save money where they can, even if it means cruel conditions, and cruel, painful deaths for the animals. Slaughter houses are killing hundreds and hundreds of animals every day, and they have to work as quickly as possible, the more they kill, the more money they make. They aren't going to be looking out for the animals welfare, because people who kill hundreds of animals every day aren't there because they care for animals. Just watch the videos on youtube, it is hideous.

I found meat, eggs and dairy easy to give up, because, although I loved how they taste, once I had an inkling of what the cost was for my pleasure, the sight and smell of those things made me feel physically ill.

For people who say that I am now eating these animals food. I have a number of things for you to consider.
The first is that my diet takes 1/20th the resources of an omnivorous diet. This is because to feed a cow you have to grow crops to feed it, which takes land and water. Then you need more land and water, plus those crops to make the cattle grow. If everyone ate my diet, we would be able to feed every single person on this planet, with leftovers, and we would have space to give back to nature.

Secondly, we are over breeding the animals that we eat, if we stopped over breeding them, then there would be plenty of food for them, and there are lots of crazy people like me out there who will take care of the rest of them since we have now made it impossible for them to survive in the wild.

And lastly the the biological waste the animals we grow contaminates waterways and the land surrounding the farms. And that isn't even mentioning the methane that is given off by cows.

For the people who have tried being vegetarian, but had to stop due to health reasons. Then I have no problem with you eating meat. I wish it weren't necessary, but it is, I think of it like medication. But maybe, if you can't give up meat, or you don't want to, don't eat eggs, or cut down on how much dairy you consume. There are people our there who will tell me that being vegan isn't enough, that I have to do more, but being vegan is my limit. There are always going to be people who tell you your not doing enough, so maybe just see what you feel comfortable with, just don't do nothing.

________________
We work in the dark, we do what we can, we give what we have, out doubt is our passion and our passion is our task, the rest is the madness of art. Henry james