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Did anyone else think wtf when they saw mein kampf on the release list

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12:20 pm, Jun 6 2011
Posts: 422


Why is anyone getting anally frustrated over this? It just follows his past and how he came to power, there's nothing in it so far that pushes his agenda. Stop being a bunch of prejudiced autistic babies. roll eyes

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Is there any manga where the male lead has an illness known as stomach ulcers.Yaoi are fine top.
Post #474618 - Reply to (#474597) by phatj
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1:05 pm, Jun 6 2011
Posts: 678


Quote from phatj
I agree with many of you that the book of a man who spurred hatred and destruction is disturbing; however, it is also true that there is much we can learn of the process and overall method that he used to do so—i.e., how to prevent it from happening again.

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Unfortunatly, not many people have read Mein Kampf or remember the circumstances of Hitler gaining power, otherwise they may recognise the similarities between now and then.


Well put, The Guy. This pretty much sums up my thoughts. The use of Nationalism (and really, any tool that polarizes one group of people against others) is a dangerous and entirely effective technique, and we would do well to recognize, question, and halt it. The largest disservice to Hitler's victims and the soldiers who sacrificed themselves in the war would be to allow any semblance of his methods to continue in the present day. Think about it as a CSI show where they interview the criminal in order to try to determine how to catch others smile .

Of course, it is also important for the reader to determine whether the manga is an attempt to whitewash history, or if it is instructional to it's target audience.

This is a bit of an aside, but it perplexes me nonetheless at times—why is it that we can tolerate "entertainment" such as Dexter, the various perversions of hentai, and other fictional accounts of brutality and human suffering, yet we are unable to set aside our biases to analyze a piece of human (albeit an ugly one) history?


Slightly off-topic:

20th Century Boys is a more palpable manga that touches quite a bit on mass manipulation (although it managed to drag on for a bit longer than I'd liked); a highly recommended masterpiece.

Your point seems valid to an extent, but you also have to understand that there is a reason for concern over this. I highly doubt there's much to learn from it that you wouldn't learn from studying on your own or in a class or something. Granted censorship is a disservice to everyone, but not everything is worth seeing. There is such a thing as bad taste and crappy work, and this would be one of them. Honestly there is nothing to gain from this at all, and it is rather insulting. We already have the book, why would we need a manga about it. It's like saying we're not smart enough to read on our own or willing to learn our history. And to add insult to injury we need to have a radical racist in our face drawn out for us to understand how evil he was. It's really not necessary, just really in bad taste.

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1:21 pm, Jun 6 2011
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Truthfully I do not care one way or the other if that story is made into a manga. I have not read it, I will not read it, and I have no desire to ever read it in my life. It's as simple as that. I have no control over what people read or write. Everyone is allowed to make their own choices and do as they please, that is part of what living in America is all about. Was he twisted? Obviously. Are there similarites to the present times? Without a doubt. However, there is no reason for people to become this worked up. If you don't like the idea, don't read the book or pay any attention to it. People use manga and graphic novels/comics to simplify complicated subjects such as this. It breaks down the text and allows everyone to understand. To end my little speech here, I would like all of you to stop with the insults and name calling. I personally know people who are mentally disabled, my own brother has autism. If you think a person is stupid, call them that. Don't insult people who actually suffer from these diseases. It hurts them and those who know them. They don't act that way on purpose, they were born that way. However, stupid is as stupid does; and stupid people are stupid and that is a fact that needs to be heard and learned so that it stops becoming a reality.

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Post #474624 - Reply to (#474618) by jrdragon2003
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1:36 pm, Jun 6 2011
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...super long quote...


Did you read it? Or are you saying it is crappy just because it's about hitler and this particular book?

It is not insulting to have educational content in a manga. Nobody says it's insulting to have it in a cartoon, because it implies we can't open a book on our own. How is that different?
Different people enjoy different way of learning.
Honestly, a whole lot of our history class in high school here treats WWII, and Hitler, and this and that camps etc etc. And it bores the hell out of students. I'm sure most of them would rather learn it out of a comic.
There are a bunch of manga out there which treats subject at least as bad as this one, and nobody says those are crappy. They're fiction, well this one is education so why not.

It's okay to make a movie out of the book but not a manga? Why not?

Some of you are making a big deal out of this for no reason. You can just ignore it if you don't like it, it's a book it's not gonna you or you children.

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Pofigists
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1:44 pm, Jun 6 2011
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And? Carl Marx "Capitalism" also is being sold world wide and was made into manga but nobody raises even an eyebrow for it, though communists have murdered at least thrice as much people as nazis.
Japanese have also made some really weird mangas about bible and hentai manga on 9/11 and Osama bin Laden, the only thing that should come as surprise is that it took so long for Japanese to make a manga about main kampf.

If you think it is weird, then I would like to welcome you in this wonderful world of Japanese cartoons and comix I believe that you will find a lot of "WTF" things here.

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Post #474626 - Reply to (#474625) by RexIX
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Quote from RexIX
And? Carl Marx "Capitalism" also is being sold world wide and was made into manga but nobody raises even an eyebrow for it, though communists have murdered at least thrice as much people as nazis.

Yeah, but Marx and communism in theory don't say that mass murders are necessary, Marx wasn't the one who murdered people, just others who used his ideology to get power. While Hitler was quite direct in his plans of eliminating Jews and other nations, and it was directly his doing.

Post #474637 - Reply to (#474602) by EternalNightmare
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Lone Wanderer
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2:57 pm, Jun 6 2011
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I wonder how many who weren't going to read it are now going to becuse you are making a big deal about it, if it wasn't controversial no one would read it except for the occasional nazi and historian.


This guy knows what he's talking about.
Even I'm tempted to read the manga now, and I am by no means a Nazi or a fan of non-fictional historical stories laugh

Post #474645 - Reply to (#474626) by Hanae
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3:22 pm, Jun 6 2011
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Quote from RexIX
And? Carl Marx "Capitalism" also is being sold world wide and was made into manga but nobody raises even an eyebrow for it, though communists have murdered at least thrice as much people as nazis.

Yeah, but Marx and communism in theory don't say that mass murders are necessary, Marx wasn't the one who murdered people, just others who used his ideology to get power. While Hitler was quite direct in his plans of eliminating Jews and other nations, and it was directly his doing.


"world revolution", "elimination of the classes" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" do you really believe all those things are peaceful? Could you name even one example where and how revolution and confiscation of ALL the private property would happen peacefully, even more considering how the revolutions went on in the 19th century Europe.
So just wondering how much more direct Hitler was in his plans for the mass genocide then Carl Marx in his world revolution and elimination of the classes? Did he wrote it in his book that when he will get to power he plans to kill all the Jews? If I remember correctly most of the people sent to the concentration camps didn't even know or (as in Schindler's list) didn't believe the people are being murdered on industrial scale. And that was at the very heights of the genocide. So the Hitler's directness seems to have slipped past me (and most of the allies that arrived in Nazi Germany) unnoticed. The existence of the mass graves was discovered only at the end of the war and not at the beginning of it. So much for your directness.

So in one book in nice Latin letters it stands written that certain groups of people must be eliminated for the greater good, but it is a good book because the one who wrote it didn't actually issue any murder orders he simply hinted that it would be a good thing to do. Yeah, he seems like trustworthy guy.
While in the other book we have these EVIL RANTS that the rich Jews.... Eh you know what I have had enough of all your hypocrisy, arguing with you I feel as if I have to justify a mass murderer and what he has written, simply because in your eyes one ideology was not explicit enough to state that it needs to murder people while the other one does not even mentioned genocide. If only you don't count boring millions to death as a clear sign of genocide.

Writing this BS was probably a waste of time anyway.

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3:31 pm, Jun 6 2011
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I did a double take when I saw the title. It was more of a surprise for me, but I think it's interesting. Nit so much his twistedness, but what lead up to it. I dont think the author of the manga is supporting him in any way, but like many have said just getting a broader audience into his story. We're all familair with WWII and the atrocities but how many of us know the guy behind it? What was he thinking and why did he think that? To blast the author and publisher of the manga is plain ignorance, and one of teh reasons why history so constantly repeats itself. We try to write off the past, without critically looking at it and understanding it.

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3:31 pm, Jun 6 2011
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yeah i was like holy shit, when i saw this.

... well ... if some people want to make money with the book of an crazy guy, who was awfully stupid, ... i won't stop them. But i will never think, that things like this are a good idea.

Anyway ... greetings from a german "nerd" xD


also ... blame me if you want, but i have my own opinion, that won't change in a minute or two.

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Post #474696 - Reply to (#474624) by kraki
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9:29 pm, Jun 6 2011
Posts: 678


Quote from kraki
Quote from jrdragon2003
...super long quote...


Did you read it? Or are you saying it is crappy just because it's about hitler and this particular book?

It is not insulting to have educational content in a manga. Nobody says it's insulting to have it in a cartoon, because it implies we can't open a book on our own. How is that different?
Different people enjoy different way of learning.
Honestly, a whole lot of our history class in high school here treats WWII, and Hitler, and this and that camps etc etc. And it bores the hell out of students. I'm sure most of them would rather learn it out of a comic.
There are a bunch of manga out there which treats subject at least as bad as this one, and nobody says those are crappy. They're fiction, well this one is education so why not.

It's okay to make a movie out of the book but not a manga? Why not?

Some of you are making a big deal out of this for no reason. You can just ignore it if you don't like it, it's a book it's not gonna you or you children.

Lol @ super long quote.
Honestly I didn't read it cause it's nothing I'd learn from or find any value of wasting my time over. But you're not understanding why it's being made a big deal over for. As for learning from a comic instead of a class, well I think if someone found it boring to read a book or learn it from school, college, etc. isn't going to want it in a comic either. Anyway I'm only stating it's in bad taste, this book has a strong potential to offend a lot of people. And that part is what makes this work "crappy". Granted there have been movies about him before and his fascist party, but to me it's like watching a movie like Rosewood or Roots, I leave feeling pissed off, hurt, and a little resentful. I understand everyone's notion of learning from this, but i can only see it just making more negative emotions grow out of it.

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Post #474768 - Reply to (#474645) by RexIX
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It's him!!
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3:46 am, Jun 7 2011
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Quote from RexIX
Quote from Hanae
Quote from RexIX
And? Carl Marx "Capitalism" also is being sold world wide and was made into manga but nobody raises even an eyebrow for it, though communists have murdered at least thrice as much people as nazis.

Yeah, but Marx and communism in theory don't say that mass murders are necessary, Marx wasn't the one who murdered people, just others who used his ideology to get power. While Hitler was quite direct in his plans of eliminating Jews and other nations, and it was directly his doing.


"world revolution", "elimination of the classes" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" do you really believe all those things are peaceful? Could you name even one example where and how revolution and confiscation of ALL the private property would happen peacefully, even more considering how the revolutions went on in the 19th century Europe.
So just wondering how much more direct Hitler was in his plans for the mass genocide then Carl Marx in his world revolution and elimination of the classes? Did he wrote it in his book that when he will get to power he plans to kill all the Jews?
[...]
So in one book in nice Latin letters it stands written that certain groups of people must be eliminated for the greater good, but it is a good book because the one who wrote it didn't actually issue any murder orders he simply hinted that it would be a good thing to do. Yeah, he seems like trustworthy guy.
While in the other book we have these EVIL RANTS that the rich Jews.... Eh you know what I have had enough of all your hypocrisy, arguing with you I feel as if I have to justify a mass murderer and what he has written, simply because in your eyes one ideology was not explicit enough to state that it needs to murder people while the other one does not even mentioned genocide. If only you don't count boring millions to death as a clear sign of genocide.


You obviously have no idea, at all, what Karl Marx was about.
What Marx meant with the elimination of the social classes was the elimination of social classes as a concept. As in, there are no more social classes to be considered in a society, everyone will belong to the same social class, the people. And I don't believe Marx to ever write about violently confiscating private property. Ideally, everyone would willingly resign their rights to private property in exchange for the right to free property for all. In this model, not the individual good is central, but the collective good. This is also Marx' greates weakness, since it requires perfected humans who don't think selfishly. This model can be employed in a small scale, but the larger the scale, the harder it is to implement.
Never has Marx condoned the use of violence in his works, as far as I know.
But that is entirely beside the point, since Das Kapital is much more a critique on capitalism than it is his own political theory. Some of his critiques have been disproven and discredited, several of his concerns are still valid. For example, Marx predicted that under a capitalist model, the economy will keep growing, untill at some point the economy will inevitably collapse into a financial crisis. In this crisis, the poor will become even poorer, while the rich become richer or simply have enough money to hold out through the crisis. Afterwards, the economy starts growing again only to collapse once more, repeating the cycle inevitably.

Damn, having written this, I think I may have an excellent subject for my final paper for social and political philosophy. Thanks, I was in a real bind for a subject there.

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Post #474773
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4:22 am, Jun 7 2011
Posts: 761


The Guy, thanks for explaining what I meant in a better way than I ever could smile Good luck with your final paper.

Post #474825 - Reply to (#474768) by The Guy
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10:48 am, Jun 7 2011
Posts: 678


Quote from The Guy
Quote from RexIX
Quote from Hanae
Quote from RexIX
And? Carl Marx "Capitalism" also is being sold world wide and was made into manga but nobody raises even an eyebrow for it, though communists have murdered at least thrice as much people as nazis.

Yeah, but Marx and communism in theory don't say that mass murders are necessary, Marx wasn't the one who murdered people, just others who used his ideology to get power. While Hitler was quite direct in his plans of eliminating Jews and other nations, and it was directly his doing.


"world revolution", "elimination of the classes" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" do you really believe all those things are peaceful? Could you name even one example where and how revolution and confiscation of ALL the private property would happen peacefully, even more considering how the revolutions went on in the 19th century Europe.
So just wondering how much more direct Hitler was in his plans for the mass genocide then Carl Marx in his world revolution and elimination of the classes? Did he wrote it in his book that when he will get to power he plans to kill all the Jews?
[...]
So in one book in nice Latin letters it stands written that certain groups of people must be eliminated for the greater good, but it is a good book because the one who wrote it didn't actually issue any murder orders he simply hinted that it would be a good thing to do. Yeah, he seems like trustworthy guy.
While in the other book we have these EVIL RANTS that the rich Jews.... Eh you know what I have had enough of all your hypocrisy, arguing with you I feel as if I have to justify a mass murderer and what he has written, simply because in your eyes one ideology was not explicit enough to state that it needs to murder people while the other one does not even mentioned genocide. If only you don't count boring millions to death as a clear sign of genocide.


You obviously have no idea, at all, what Karl Marx was about.
What Marx meant with the elimination of the social classes was the elimination of social classes as a concept. As in, there are no more social classes to be considered in a society, everyone will belong to the same social class, the people. And I don't believe Marx to ever write about violently confiscating private property. Ideally, everyone would willingly resign their rights to private property in exchange for the right to free property for all. In this model, not the individual good is central, but the collective good. This is also Marx' greates weakness, since it requires perfected humans who don't think selfishly. This model can be employed in a small scale, but the larger the scale, the harder it is to implement.
Never has Marx condoned the use of violence in his works, as far as I know.
But that is entirely beside the point, since Das Kapital is much more a critique on capitalism than it is his own political theory. Some of his critiques have been disproven and discredited, several of his concerns are still valid. For example, Marx predicted that under a capitalist model, the economy will keep growing, untill at some point the economy will inevitably collapse into a financial crisis. In this crisis, the poor will become even poorer, while the rich become richer or simply have enough money to hold out through the crisis. Afterwards, the economy starts growing again only to collapse once more, repeating the cycle inevitably.

Damn, having written this, I think I may have an excellent subject for my final paper for social and political philosophy. Thanks, I was in a real bind for a subject there.

The irony of this point you made is how it just recently happened too. Quite scary in a sense, but eye opening as well.

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Post #475559
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4:24 pm, Jun 10 2011
Posts: 302


I'd refrain from commenting until i've reviewed the manga
well it depends on the way the manga disect it's subject is it only an adaptation of the book and the judgment is left to the reader, or is it a retelling of the way it's applied after the seizure of power or is it just a piece of propaganda written by an emo nazi-fan ...

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