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The Lolicon Shotacon Debate

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Post #534834

5:58 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 6

Personally, i would say remove it all if they have a Hentai tag as well. Leave the non-hentai alone.

Post #534835

5:59 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 6

woops. forgot to add, But for an information only site, i would say leave them. For now.

Post #534836
user avatar

6:04 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 574

Sad it has come to this

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Post #534837
user avatar
sleepy ghost

6:24 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 1140

Seeing how big and heated this has become, doing nothing doesn't seem like the best move atm. At the same time, completely erasing all the series info relating to shotacon and lolicon is overkill. Removing the download links (i.e. the second poll option) seems to be the sensible thing to do for the foreseeable future, if only for this site to avoid legal trouble and whatnot.

Based on how people are voting, it's understandable why the majority is voting for the "do nothing" option, but it irks me as to how many people don't care about a fairly significant subject...

"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained."
- Samuel Clemens/Mark Twain
Post #534838

6:31 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 6

I'm not big into loli or anything, but I'm worried about where the line will get pushed to later if you purge information about them from the site. I read mangafox had to remove Omamori Himari and Dance in the vampire bund, both series which I'm reading. What if they push to ban those next?
I'd suggest a fifth option for your pole: Have loli and shota automatically filtered on the site, and only have them viewable if the filter is manually turned off in the user CP. That way only people who are looking to find it can, and there shouldn't be any reason to complain.

Post #534839

6:32 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 5

I don't read these genres but I am against censorship in any form. If mangaupdates removes these type of series' from the website there's no guarantee that someone won't come along and ask that the same thing be done to Hentai and Yaoi, and so on.
Mark things clearly, but don't take anything off.

Post #534840 - Reply to (#534825) by godhand666
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 Super Mod

6:34 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 6208 raphy.html

Post #534841
user avatar
The Gorilla Killa™

6:37 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 3229

Personally, I think you should just remove all links to websites hosting these genres, but keep series information. And if that doesn't work, then delete all series and information related to them as well. The reason why is that losing this great site is not worth it. I don't read lolicon or shotacon, but I understand why people are upset about it being banned and even agree with them to a certain extent. However, if you decide to do nothing at all, then there's a huge chance that this site will be no more and all of the links and info for those manga and plenty more will be gone, one way or another.

tl;dr Don't let the good suffer for the bad.

Quote from Klapzi
The cool part is that I never get tired of being deceived

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Just because someone's head was chopped off doesn't mean they're dead. That's just silly.

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Post #534842
user avatar

8:00 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 19

In my opinion, removing information and metadata like MangaUpdates would have to do, is nothing less than censorship. Therefore I vote the site continues as it is. If we let this happen it'll just be the first step, until in the end all that's left are happy happy series with a moral message. We live in a free society and manga doesn't harm anyone. People should realise the difference between fiction and real life already!

Thank you for letting us give our opinion on this.

Post #534843
user avatar

8:07 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 19

I don't much care between leaving things as-is or removing links to loli/shotacon sites, but I think removing them from the database entirely is a bad idea. For one thing, there's a lot of stuff that winds up with a lolicon tag, but which doesn't really have anything offensive/overtly sexual in it.

Post #534844

8:09 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 16

they got to step 2 pretty fast

first was fictional rape then fictional children

I wonder what next yaoi/yuri or gore?

Post #534845

8:11 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 2

First, I am not a fan of this genre. However, from what I have read this seems to be a 'knee-jerk' reaction to a bigger issue. I would agree to removing pornagraphic material concerning children, however, not all manga is pornagraphic. 'Dance in the Vampire Bund' for example.
In my opinion, I think this site clearly identifies titles that may have content that one would not wish to read and also allows the users to block those genre. I do not see the need to do more.
The only other thing you could consider is making users identify their age and thus limiting access to certain genre. Of course, this does not prevent a user from lying about their age to gain access.
There will always be people out there complaining about something.

Post #534846
user avatar

8:13 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 837

Thanks for the news update. Too many sites don't bother involving or even informing its user base of issues about its site.

For myself, the addition of the disclaimer was far enough. An option to be able to turn off disclaimers after the first viewing would be a welcome addition for registered users. Right now it feels like a nagging grandmother is hovering over my shoulder every time I see it pop up. If I wanted a filter, I would have used the user CP. Removing the acknowledgment that the content is legal within the country would also be appreciated. In many cases, it is illegal to read loli, shota, hentai or even yaoi but it should be fine to state the facts about who wrote it, published it, scanlated it, etc.

Removing download links would be a minor inconvenience but it may benefit the scanlation groups as it will likely raise traffic to their sites. Many groups complain that visits to their sites, blogs and channels have steadily declined after all. DDLs tend to change and die so people should spend the three seconds to visit the scanlator sites anyway. If removing the DDLs does not negatively impact traffic to MU too much, I say go for it.

Removing links to the scanlation groups' sites and releases or removing the genres/entries altogether is overboard. MU is an information site. Cutting such info out will leave holes all over related genres, primarily hentai and ecchi series, damaging MU's usability and credibility as a comprehensive manga catalogue. If the site gets turned into Swiss cheese, it wouldn't matter that alarmists have stopped pestering MU because the site would already be dead.

I am not a fan of the default filtering option proposed by crystalsouls. The issue I have with this approach is that it will alienate the anonymous population which for the longest I and many others were a part of. For me, being able to access all the info in the site without logging on is one of the biggest conveniences offered by MU. Keeping the disclaimers and giving people the option to shut them off should be enough. If it is implemented though, I wouldn't lose much sleep over it. At least it will negate the need for those annoying disclaimers.

Post #534847

8:13 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 21

I think removing the download links are sufficient.

Post #534848
user avatar

8:18 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 17

I know that some Shotacon and Lolicon are pretty obvious, and I'm not here to defend any of those. However, I want to point out that I've seen plenty of series where the age of the characters weren't very clear. (The characters looked young, but were supposedly over 18, or in some cases over 20.) My concern is in who will be choosing what is okay and what is not. I think that this is especially important since, in my experience, a manga character's youthful cuteness can be misleading to those who are not used to the unique drawing style that seems to define most Japanese manga artwork such as large eyes, outrageous hairstyles and the use of chibis. To these inexperienced observers most manga and anime characters probably look young, and this is where a majority of the problem lies. Like all artwork, manga drawings are essential left open to interpretation, and as such will always be vulnerable to the harsh critique of those lacking understanding. In the end, no one can prove the people depicted are of legal age or not (since they never existed in the first place), so any series that has any romantic/sexual undertones could find their way into these categories. In my opinion, not only is opening the door for censorship a bad idea, but opening the door for censorship from people who don't even read what they are trying to get rid of (Yeah, I'm talking to you advertisers!) is potentially disastrous.

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