i used to be part of a japanese to some euro country group. it was my job to get raws. i couldnt speak the language or translate, but my friends could and i needed the job
as a former member of staff, i say that watermarks are something that you demanding pussies just have to deal with. go finger yourselves and learn japanese if you dont want them

Well, I dont mind them at all. If they can put at ease someone, just do it. Though, as said before, they can also be considered suicidal in terms of legal problems (the "sue me pls" said in the previous post).

Besides, I completely agree with all of Snoopycool's statements, as usual: when will I get a signed photo? XD No really, one of the wisest on the webs.

As a side note, a bit OT: i'd prefer more specific and accurate credit pages (like real names near the nick, maybe some info about the people), cause I read them, always. I "care" for whoever gives me a product, moreso if its a quality work

And let me say that Hidoi~'s logo is teh awesomeness become logo


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When they are distracting me,
they are annoying.
I want to read the stuff.
Couldn't care less what kind
of emblem the scanlation guild has.

i've never actually seen one...
i'd think they'd fine unless they obscure a large amount

As long as the mark isn't big and doesn't obscure the entire page, I'm fine with it. I think scanlators deserve credit for their hard work. Besides, I purchase the works I enjoy reading online, so big watermarks just make me less likely to enjoy the series and therefore, not spend money on it.

Whether you want them to or not, someone out there WILL save your work, and it'll live on in some other server or on someone's harddrive. It exists as an immortal, digital copy of the original, and someone out there will probably archive it. Frankly, even with crappy scans, almost no one is willing to buy manga in a language they can't understand. People who do will regardless of scan quality, but that's maybe 1 in 1000 of people who read scanlations, sorry to say.

The way I see it, editing becomes useless if you're going to vandalize every page with a watermark. You may as well just edit the text in with paint if you don't want to do a quality editing job and make readers buy it.

For me personally, I try to treat every manga I translate as if I were doing a professional job. You can never know for sure if a series will ever be licensed in another language, and even if it is, art edits and awful rewrites and the like are always a possibility, so I like to help with the creation of an unedited English version people have access to. I always include notes in the credits telling people to buy manga they enjoy, because I think that's an important duty as a scanlator to try to help the authors we like (I personally own at least one copy of every manga I've ever scanlated), but I understand that almost no one will buy it. Importing can be expensive, and it's not worth it for everyone to buy manga they can't read.

To answer the poll: watermarks suck. I see no reason for them. You may have put hard work into it, but most people won't care. You don't scanlate for yourself, aside from gaining experience and knowledge. Personally, I'd do it anonymously, but frankly it's a lot easier to make myself do a better job when my reputation is at stake.

Wait... you watermarked scans that you got for FREE off the internet? Why?

I've never understood why anyone has a job as a 'raw finder' when any translator can download Share and type stuff in and wait a few hours and have raws. Hell, you don't even need to be a translator, since there's an English version. Come on... wtf.

I've actually already voiced my opinion in this thread, but just to be relevant, I'll summarize. Watermarks are a waste of time and serve no useful purpose. The original point of this post was to keep other groups from stealing the scans that the English group actually made themselves (unlike a lot of groups, SOME of us actually purchase the manga and scan them, gasp of gasps). The point I was trying to make is that good groups ask permission for your scans, and don't use them if you say no. And bad groups don't ask permission and would be more than happy to use scans watermarked with your name regardless.

If your issue is with sites that claim to have done your work, get over it. The people who see your watermarks will just think "oh, tazmo has another site named "totallyfreemanga.com", how nice" and then go to the next page and forget it 10 seconds later. Waste of time and an annoyance to the fans that actually support you.

Am I really going to post about something like this in a forum? Am I really going to bump a thread that's been dead for more than two weeks? Shame on me.
But I feel like I have to, after reading noirstaff's huge post.

As an scanlator as well, I believe watermarking is not only pretentious, but stupid.

Do you understand that what you're doing is fanwork? That you are releasing stuff for people to read, for free, and not giving the author any revenue but the chance of its work being advertised?

Watermarks don't advertise the author. They advertise you. And while it's true that you spend effort and time working on it, you're supposedly doing it because you're a fan. Because you want people to know the author's work, not because you want them to know your group's logo. Supposedly.

My releases don't have watermarks. They don't have credit pages. Because I'm not "wasting my time" working on a series so I get known. No. I'm doing it so the series gets known, and so the non-japanese speaking fans are able to read it.

Also, you do understand that what we do is borderline (if not straight, sometimes) illegal internationally, right? Not that I'm in favour of copyright laws (because I'm not. As far as I'm concerned, intellectual property should be mankind's property), but taking pride and a name out of breaking the law isn't exactly a smart thing to do. It makes you look childish. Like a kid measuring his e-penis.

And the people complaining about tazmo? If you pay for piracy, it's your own fault. If they're dumb enough to do it, it's their problem, not the scanlator's problem. And while it's true that there's someone taking advantage, what's worse, monetary advantage out of the scanlator's work, ask yourself this: when you started scanlating, were you expecting to get paid? No? Then stop sounding like you're jealous because someone was unscrupulous enough to get the idea before you did.

I'm not ashamed to say that I've unwatermarked some manga (... the group got on a fit because of that and because some other group had started working on their series, and disbanded later, by the way), and that I'd do it again. Scanlators don't own the material, and they shouldn't act as if they did.

... and don't get me started on passworded files.

If they're not in the way, I don't care.

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Click the Pokemon.

My thoughts exactly. I haven't seen any that are so large it interferes with the art.

Oh lol. That is actually how I felt when the issue came up once for me when I worked on Amatsuki. Miki told me to put in the watermark on a couple of pages, but I didn't want to for reasons everyone has already mentioned. She did it for me though.

Though I could kind of understand it for Hana-Mi with Amatsuki because there has been some drama with that series. ^^;; But nothing a credits page doesn't solve.

what tehy said.

________________
i like comics as well
don't kill me

Very true.

While watermarks don't bother me personally, I find it kinda disrespectful towards the original author. Scanlations are supposed to promote the manga to non-Japanese readers but nobody ever asks the mangaka whether they want this promotion or not. What if this person disagrees with the 'good purpose' of a scanlation? Once it's out, you can't stop it anymore.

Plastering the pages with watermarks shows very emphatically how strongly a group feels about a 'evil third party' ripping off their 'hard work' without permission (and it is hard work, I don't doubt) but the fact that they're actually doing the very same to the mangaka has probably slipped some minds.

Maybe it's the mangaka who should plaster all pages with watermarks since the little 'copyright protection' in the corner of the book obviously doesn't help against stealing the original author's 'hard work'.

So no, I'm not really bothered by watermarks but I believe that a scanlator should stay in the background while highlighting the original authors. That's the least we can do.


'Borderline' is a fairytale. At least in the US and most European countries, you clearly break nearly every point of the copyright laws.

Reproducing (scanning), altering (cleaning/editing), distributing (includes free sharing), exporting, importing, transcribing and translating as well as adapting the work (fanarts, fanfics) are all included in the copyright. Not that I support the strictness of this law but that's a simple fact.

________________
Sorry, I'm Late.
But I Got Lost On The Road Of Life.

Before I started scanlating myself, I used to read a lot of stuff that didn't have credits or watermarks and it drove me crazy not knowing where the manga came from or if the group released any other work from the mangaka -- that's why I choose to use a URL watermark now for my own scanlations. Other reasons didn't even cross my mind.

Yeah, those are the small 'source watermarks' in a tiny corner of the page. I think the concern is mostly about the bigger ones that affect the artwork because they're placed partly over one or more panel(s).

I agree that I also like to know who did the scans and I don't find the little url lines bothersome although I'd say that a mere credit page (and I do read credit pages, btw >.>) would be sufficient enough.

There's really no need to have it on every page especially when you consider that those url's will change or get abandoned after a few years while the scan will float around for a very long time. I have 15+ years old ebook scans on my hdd and I highly doubt that the source would be still reachable through a url stamp (if there was one, seeing that early scanners gave a damn about naming themselves).

Now my children take over my 'scan folders' already, so whoever said further above that scanlations are for a temporary read can go and dream on. It's not just the readers now but also new generations who'll pick up the stuff you do right now. Once you publish it, there's no going back. What you do has longtime consequences, that's also a valid reason why a lot of people here despite speedscans so much. But that goes offtopic.

Last edited by eni at 2:17 am, May 5 2009

________________
Sorry, I'm Late.
But I Got Lost On The Road Of Life.