Listen, I agree partly with Diokhan .They are worried about the loss of sales and such but what I think is it's the wrong way to go about it.

They should go digital.Like other people said it costs virtually nothing to produce and if they perhaps hired scanalators to tranlate and paid them a modest fee(remember that these scanalator do it for free) and put it all on one huge database and then charged a minor fee or a monthly subscription then I'm sure that the people who actually care about the mangas and the mangakas would buy that.As for people using the save as ...its the same thing as people Xeroxing the paperback copy and selling it eh?

I think that we should come up with a publisher and reader friendly solution and then make a petition and then get tons i mean thousands of readers to sign and then send it off.

I mean theres nothing we can do about just sitting around and complaining on something that they probably won't even see. If we try to do something and it fails then we'll just be back where we are now and who knows maybe some good will come out of it.


P.S. Don't you think that if they're cracking down this hard that they'll go after every route? Meaning scanalators ,forum communities and evn IRC?

can't remember where i've heard of it, so this info maybe wrong, and i'm not all that good with the legal workings of most things, but supposedly, like torrents, the actions the Law can take against materials downloaded via IRC is limited.

again, i might be wrong. but it is however a certainty that IRC is a haven. i remember a server prior to me joining the community that used to host a lot of fansubbing/scanlation groups that had to stop doing so due to legal reasons, forcing these groups to move to the Irchighway/rizon servers.

I AM SO FUCKING PISSED!!!!!!!!!!
ARGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
fml!!!!
I only read free online manga, it's the only thing I can afford obviously because it's free. God this sucks! My computer can't download files and so I won't be able to read anything! Plus at bookstores I go to they only have Naruto, Onepiece and Bleach, all the big name shounen, but none of what I read.

Last edited by lambchopsil at 11:19 pm, Jul 23 2010

Actually, Square Enix has already begun to release their manga digitally. They're opening a digital manga store this fall. I'm not sure how they will charge members though... You'll need a SE account to access the store. I can see the digital manga industry being a little complicated in terms of where to locate manga, how many websites you must sign up on, subscriptions for different websites, etc. I'm sure the companies will know what to do about it, though.

Since there will be no printing costs for digital manga, I'm sure the cost to purchase manga will decrease significantly, and I'm sure that will be more than enough incentive for readers to spend on manga. The problem is that to pay online, you'll need to have a bank account. Many manga readers are pre-teens or younger that don't have access to their own bank account or credit card or whatever. I'm not sure how manga publishers intend to reach out to their younger audience.

Agreed.. I think Irc will become a safe haven if this all goes to hell..
The only problem I see is that since each scanlator seems to have a different Irc the manga community is a bit divided.. Hopefully a universal channel will be created.. Not replacing the individual channels but connecting them together...

Onemanga is gone.. It was my first mangahosting site to find *cries* And mangafox seems to be going in the same direction.. ;( Atleast mangaupdates is safe.. This is the first manga site I ever found..

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Man... They took MT, they took OM, next is going to be MF, and then AnimeA.net! Next thing you know they are going to take down all the anime sites!!!
I can't believe how the publishers can't see where this is not going to go...

There IS a universal channel, though it has fallen out of grace these last few years with the popularity of online readers; #LURK. they've used to update their database regularly, a day or two late, though that changed as they're more than a week behind now, and they've been struggling horribly for awhile now with donations needed to keep their server up. such is the case currently as their site is down.

hopefully, they'll get back up on their feet with this incident. those planning to DL via irc, i hope you can spare the cash to donate to them, even a dollar will do. Lurk has always been a major contributor to the community, prior to the online reader boom, and hopefully, with your donations, after. I LOVE those guys at Lurk. they introduced me and many others to scanlation, and many scanlators used to worked close with them. them dying is as big loss as MU would if it closed down.

i am not requesting nor demanding, i am begging, on my knees to those who plan to use irc; save lurk. there's so little i can do alone. they were our savior, and may be our savior now with this crisis in hand. they may be slow with the releases now, but with enough support, they can go back to their former glory.

Interesting. Sadly they don't realize most of the manga readers are not really manga readers. Only reason they read it becase it is freely available and good time pass. If that isn't there they just find something else to do. Can they even keep up with fan scanlations? Fan scanlators even translated manga from the 80s and early 90s which even today is not avalable translated by english publishers. Alot of readers are pissed off why there still is no anime on certain mangas when they are very good. They should just leave them be and concentrate on making more anime and get incentives from anime producers because investment of manga outside Japan is a near dead investment especially with those rates. Look at the status of DC and Marvel comics they are just there but still surving only because of their years of publishing which gave them some footing to live off of. They both have been bought out by larger companies and their primary income comes from movies and cartoons made from their characters.

i just have to leave a comment here,

Diokhan
yous stuck out the most so far. do you realize how much the authors are fucked over? some get privileges, like more money, mainly so the talent doesn't go else ware, but other than that, they get generally 1% of the total profit. in most cases, they get enough money to go on living. most manga authors would actually pull more money if they released online with ad support alone. the reason they don't is because of the way japanese think in general, don't rock the boat. the reason american sales are down are is the shitty business practices of releasing 1 volume every half year or so. and not only that, but shitty economy means no one is willing to spend as much on non necessities as before. those companies went belly up for many reasons, the main one was licensing everything they could even if it wasn't good, who the hell will buy something if they know its not good? they payed shit loads more than some anime would ever bring in. and adv, i believe at one point had 50% of there material in manga that they just licensed but never translated. and the manga companies, at least in america, owe scanlaters a shit load more than they probably realize. ill get to that alot more later.

now your next rant is talking about how curiosity makes you want to buy shit. and ill hit this 1 by one.

Apple products - i have nothing to say about the people who suck apple off. they are all, lack of a better word, mindless zombies.
Windows OS - most people dont buy this shit day 1, those are mindless zombies that do. most people wait till service pack 1, or until they get a new computer. and vista, i know no one outside of a day 1 friend, who got that steaming pile of shit, everyone else got it becaue tehy bought computers and it was all that was offered
game consoles - regardless if you like the system or not, you are almost guaranteed that for 5 years it will be used, games will come out on it, and you want it, and the sooner the better
movies - even before a movie comes out, most have a 2 minute trailer and a general plot synopsis that covers almost everything besides twists or endings. you more or less know that you would like it.
books - unless the author has a track record, like harry potter, or the one prior to it was a well received (twilight, fucking hate it, but the people who like it love it), books gain popularity through trading and word of mouth.
CDs - again no one lines up for an un heard of band, if they have a good track record or through word of mouth, or RADIO (scanlations analogue anyone?) no one will get them day 1

now specifics

Star Wars ep.1 - it was ep 1, and the trailers were cool, we had no idea gorge lucas lost his ability to make a good movie at this point. now people who waited in line for ep2 and ep3, mindless zombies. and mindless in every sense of the word.
360 RRoD - if i could emulate a 360 i would because allot of games i like are 360 only, or are better on the 360. i have had 7, i hate the system but i love its games.

now manga

without knowing its plot, no one would get a manga, i know for a fact that every manga i read, that if i didn't read it for free first i would have never picked them up at all when i realy realy liked them. its kind of like this, the more retarded a story sounds the better it is. but i wouldn't pick up on a 10$ gamble.

irc isn't easy, but once you get how to do it, it is. its a steep learning curve for newbies where if you mess up you get kicked or baned for an un specified amount of time.

6.6% in japan is to be expected, with low birthrates, and lets be honest, a shitty economy, with the ones who vocal say loss of sales being jump, only publishing over all crap in weekly jump. id rather wait till what i like comes out collected than get jump for the 1 or 2 things i keep up with. and the low birthrates, now if you know anything about japan, after a certain point you will get the shit kicked out of you an harassed to the point of wanting to die, for liking manga. allot of the people who may like manga dont want to take the risk of complete social isolation for it.

the america side may suffer the most but japan has little to worry about, at least until the economy picks back up, if shit doesn't rebound than they may have problems.

now that thats don i'm not talking directly to you for the rest of this

now like i was saying before, manga company owe scanlaters a fuckload more than they realize. most manga you would never pick up because of art, because of a retarded sounding plot, or because it 10+$ for less than an hour of entertainment. an 800 page book can last 20 hours, and cost between 15-30$ manga has 200 pages with less than 1 hour of entertainment, and costs allot more than the book. at the very least 10% of there sales come from people who read it online and wanted a real coppy. and more people get exposed to the manga, at least in america by scanlations. in fact if it wasnt for them, there would me no american market, AT ALL the only reason they stay above red is because of them.

now the american side of the industry can for the most part die. year of censorship, years of catering to a younger audiance (naruto, in japanese there is a word that can mean anywhere from dangit, to FUCK, what do you think the american side tends to use? friend dies, or gets hurt badly, you think he is saying oh poo?) the years of takeing out nipples, the years of toneing down the violence, and shear lack of balls some publishers have (look it up, ther some times buy the rights but never put it out due to content).

i can say this because all the american audience is is a fraction of the profit japan manga company dont need or care to much about. form my understanding its a lump sum licensing fee not a we pay them some from every transaction, than again i could be wrong there. but i would rather pay the mangaka directly if i realy like there things.

and a online reader made by a manga publisher, here let me tell you what it will be.

1) i cant believe i was right with this one, but to fucking small of pages, even the 4 YEAR OLD scanlation of fma was higher quality, the images may not be bigger, but detail is more visible
2) they will charge butt fuck prices for the manga. the first volume of fma that i can get a price on in japan was volume 6 costing 390yen, that roughly 4$ now with it online, they could charge 1$ and probably pull bigger profits than the selling a printed manga. but they will charge at least 5$ if not 2-3$ a chapter. but im expecting them to charge you 10$
3) now i dont know how many of you know anything about scanning things, but generally printed medium should be scanned at 300dpi, but 600 is preferred. because that way there is no loss in quality. square looks as if it scanned it at 72dpi and did it though a shitty scanner

this shit is unacceptable. here is how you do it right

1) give non paying customers the quality that is up there right now, with ads, that way you make profit even from leaches.
2) charge paying customers a bit like 25-50 cents a chapter if free is available (otherwise 10-15cents) and have them download a plugin, and download the chapters directly however they cant be viewed outside of the web imbued player. this way there is no server load outside of the initial download. they can also look at it online in the same quality too.
3) if it is a monthly fee, you better update it with at least 4 chapters a month, depending on what the manga was published in. i can forgive 1 chapter a month for a monthly manga, but now for a weekly one. it would be preferred to have a fuck ton upfront but these are businesses, and i can respect that.
3-a) with this model, you charge them another 1$ or so for a high quality version per volume, if they so chose, or let them but single pages for 1 cent each for set piece moments. if they want to go that way.
3-b) you cant fuck over the customer with text. if something is to small to read, allow them to zoom in to read it regardless if its free or not. the drawings dont need to be higher quality but damnit the text does.

i had to take an hour or so long break while writing this because of little brother was scared of the storms here, so i probably forgot something. ill be sticking around here to read followups.

alidan, you are my friend.

I posted a couple of replies in another topic and tried to generate a fair price for manga, my results were

Price per chapter of a digital format : £0.50GBP/$0.80USD
Price per volume : £4.50GBP/$7USD
Subscription fee w/ 10 downloads a month : £7.50/$12

This took into account the cost of a series like One Piece which is one of the big 3. however the added price was still to support some smaller series'.

And as for removing everything from online readers, go them, Unfortunately I also say remove the IRC groups etc and wipe-out translating to teach people how to buy things and stop leeching.
I think people in the younger generation of manga readers have to lose something they love to know what it's like to lose and respect a series' and publisher

I was just going to post an extract, but the whole song sums it up...lyrics in the spoiler
you can probably ignore the bit about compassion


I say give the pirates a loss. But publishers NEED to come up with an online plan of translating within 1 week of release for weekly chapters and one month for monthly series'.
My other post, is more about how the industry needs to price this and structure it


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support what you love, or it may just leave you

We are locking all such related threads because they are degenerating into flame wars

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A just ruler amongst tyrants