I don't know about the difference between Can and other countries, but there's a huge difference here between (some) products bought in the groceries and products grown/picked by oneself. Totally agree that the difference in strawberries is drastic. I picked a few baskets this year at a growing place outside the city and they had a wonderful sweet taste - the ones in the groceries barely have any taste at all. I disagree though, given the amount of food wastage that goes on, that current growing/harvesting practices have anything to do with a need for food that would otherwise go unfulfilled. It's more because of money and the bizarre expectations of consumers for food that looks a certain way.

throwing around "real fruit" in this context is weird. Certainly grocery store produce is never as good as freshly picked stuff, but that's simply because grocery store produce is shipped off unripe, and then ripened in store, or at drop off. The whole point of a grocery store is to get the produce to the masses, since the large majority of people don't have convenient access to pick their own goods, and certainly not with the same variety.

It doesn't change the fact that it's still fruit. It's just poorer quality fruit.

If you're in a situation where you can freely get fresh goods directly from the source, you should feel fortunate, instead of calling everything else "fake".

Just because one may grow up accustomed to fresh tuna, it doesn't mean sardines suddenly stopped being fish.

Depends on a person's opinion re: frankenfoods. I'm unsure whether I would ever call a genetically modified apple 'fake', but it's certainly different than the original apple.

Edit: Acknowledging here that GM apples are not currently sold in grocery stores, though some are in the approval process.

Last edited by hkanz at 12:23 pm, Oct 20 2014

One of the thing I learn as an actual environmentalist (the ones that study it) is that there is no such thing as a 'real fruit', 'fake', 'frankenfood' or in'organic' fruit. There are fruits that sell well, fruits that don't.

Almost everything people grow has been genetically modified extensively by ways of domestication. The earliest form of rice was a little more than inedible grass and that corn cob you're munching on was roughly the size of your finger. A lot of domesticated plants would rapidly transform into something that you would not be able to survive up on if you release them into the wild.

Again, the primary reason why a lot of people aren't vegetarian is because vegetarian dishes are labor intensive. Otherwise they wouldn't taste very good compare to meat dishes. It is far easier to have a quick tasty meat dish than spending a couple hours fiddling in your kitchen for a tasty vegetable dish. Vegans tent to be preachy about their life-style and tend to look down on the carnivores peons so people tend to not like that part.

You can lists all the reasons to be a vegetarian or vegan and it wouldn't work that much. Since when is the last time mothers managed to get their kids to eat their vegetables? It's in our genes to like meat, fats and sugar. Oh, we don't want excess of them but we do want them. Flavors and spices were the reason for war back in the olden days. People would kill for decent flavors and meat is probably the easiest way to get one of the 'savory' flavor.

Since a lot of vegans refuse to eat meat not for health benefits, but because they feel sorry for the poor, poor animals. Yet these same people typically have no scruples buying products made in countries like Vietnam or Cambodia and thus supporting the economic exploitation of the workers there.

Typical upper middle class behavior from people who never had any kind of worries in their life and try to make their conscience better by becoming vegans or donating a few dollars to African children.

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Sorry, but this is exactly why people dislike vegans, your holier then thou attitude, that you are somehow a better person then someone because of what you eat. That preachy attitude is why I dislike vegans, I don't mind them as long as they don't make it an issue of what I decide to eat and what he decides to eat, that is my right and opinion. Same thing with beliefs, don't force your religions on me and we are cool, I decide what I believe and can't believe, we aren't all ignorant and don't hate for no reason, we just hate the guy at a dinner that says eww how can you eat that, you know it has been tortured right? Don't force your opinions on others and that would cease to happen, if people make a big issue that you are a vegan despite not doing so then you should probably tell them to stop or stop hanging with them, it goes both ways.

Selective breeding to make something edible is, IMO, different than genetically engineering it for whatever other reason.


Thanks for the broad generalization. How many vegans do you actually know?

Last edited by hkanz at 12:25 pm, Oct 20 2014

Ok my bad, I was thinking that being vegans actually the same as being vegetarians. And all my vegetarian friends are decent and pleasant human being.

Wait, if being vegetarian is not the same as being vegan, And vegan is the extremist of the vegetarian.

So OP was actually asking people, why do some people dislike extremist (seeing that he's a vegan, hence, armed with a better knowledge of veganism than me)?

Wow.

ahh... i tried to avoid this thread but oh well, here goes. As a lot of people have already said, there are a lot of stereotypes about being vegan or vegetarian. So if it is someone's first time meeting one, they may be leery of you. Or they may have had a bad encounter with one who was very pushy about his/her beliefs. I think most of the time, the jokes aren't actually done out of malice. It's more that they find meat to be sooo delicious, they can't believe you willingly gave it up. Like if someone told me they didn't eat chocolate or hated Italian food, I'd be like o.0 what are you doing with your life? I'm not trying to be mean or disregard their way of life, I'm just surprised that someone would not like what is so unbelievably yummy to me.


As a side note, some people seem to think that vegetarian meals require an abnormal amount of time to prepare... Not really? How long does it take you to boil pasta or grill an eggplant? It's nearly impossible to have meat in EVERY meal of the day. Every once in a while, EVERYONE has a vegetarian meal even if they, themselves, are not vegetarian. Certain dishes require more finesse and time than others but that's not limited to vegetarian dishes.

To this day, my dad still eats a simple water boiled spinach, carrots or any vegetables without meat. Takes like 5-10 minutes. He's not a vegetarian, and eat meat dishes whenever he stays at my house (which take hours to cooks). But he prefer to eat veggies in his daily life.

He's already over 60, white hairs and everything, but still he runs like a deer and play football with my son every weekend.

To all: I didn't mean to sound disrespectful of other people's lifestyles and way of eating. I'm sorry if I came off that way. But I really don't understand why someone would willingly eat meat if they know what is happening in meat farms, that is why I asked; so that I could understand your reasons.



Religion and food choice usually has no connection. And which is the most evil religion in the world?


Most vegans are also decent and pleasant human beings.
I'm not vegan, only vegetarian. Either way, veganism is usually based on anti-cruelty of animals, it isn't intended to be an extremist group against other people or beliefs.

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In my experience, people get upset with vegans who try to shove their lifestyle choice down other people's throats, especially by shaming or guilting them. However, I have many friends and colleagues who are vegans, and we are able to get along fine while respecting our differences.

Frankly, I eat meat and dairy because they are delicious. As for "meat farms," I grew up in the US Midwest, where there are plenty of beef and dairy cattle, sheep, and pigs living in good conditions and being cared for by farmers who are invested in their welfare. If you're talking hygiene or cruelty, I'm much more wary of eating what comes out of poultry farms.

Well you know, changing the source of where you get your meat is just as good as cutting it out altogether to go against these "meat farms". I know personally that the meat I eat usually comes from a butchers, who don't have animals treated cruelly. Also, there are places where you can shoot animals yourself, like rabbits and pigeons. All wild. You can't get any fresher than that. Those animals aren't treated cruelly, they're living in a natural environment. What's wrong with meat that comes from places like that?

Not all meat comes from those meat farms. Please don't think all meat eaters are ignorant. We're really not.

Because a quite a few vegans tends to be "Moral Authoritarians". Like other have said previously, it's the "holier than thou" attitude on top of their ignorance. "Vegan" crops tend to be more labour and carbon intensive than regular crops, because certain machineries can't be used in their harvest since they WILL harvest animals as part of their crop (insects, rodents, rabbits and snake being the most common).

Just like every Moral Authoritarians, many in their rank think they are above the "plebs", they think they are better because of their lifestyle and try to shame/guilt all others around them. This isn't limited to just veganism, you see this with hipsters that "are going green", "white knights", "armchair social justice warriors". Environmentalism (climate change and polar bears), 3rd wave feminists (promote victimhood), "helicopter parents" (my offspring is better cause I only give him XYZ), hell, even manga (tokyo's governor anyone?) and even videogame (gamergate) have these sort of people.

They are all hated and ridicule, usually because they put themselves on a pedestal. Otherwise, most of us don't really care/mind (quite a few people I know practice "long-term vegetarian" as per buddhist belief). Hell, I'm happy to accommodate as long as it isn't too unreasonable (don't want me to use my knife that got washed with my cleaver to cut vegetable since it somehow affect your meal? Piss off).

tl;dr cause quite a few of them are pretentious hipsters that tends to shove their lifestyle and superiority complex down other's throat.

That doesn't reinforce your comment that eating meat substitute is "lying to yourself" or it's "half assed bullshit" if the intention of a vegetarian or a vegan is not consuming meat. Does it matter if they're eating something that doesn't measure up to the original when it's only a part of the vast gastronomy, as you yourself seem to acknowledge? I wasn't aware that in giving up meat you also had to obscure the fact that you liked how meat tasted when you did eat it, which is probably a big reason as to why some people might find it hard to give it up.

Cognitive dissonance can definitely be a part of any lifestyle change, but consuming a meat analogue as part of a wider diet is hardly "desperately" clinging to the past. Of course there are good dishes without meat or its imitation, you don't even have to be a vegetarian or a vegan to know that or prepare and enjoy them. It's not as drastic the death sentence as your making this out to be, people can return to eating meat if they decide the diet is not for them or just unbearable.

Isn't that what you just did?

Last edited by ThirySixChambers at 12:35 pm, Oct 1 2014