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This is just a poll to see how many people are actually benefiting with Obamacare.

Poll
This question is mostly for people living in the US. How many people are actually benefiting with Obamacare? Please tell how you are benefiting and not benefiting.
Benefitting alot
Benefitting somewhat
No difference
Worse off than without Obamacare. Old coverage provided more for the same price.
Don't live in the US
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Post #765525
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3:36 am, Nov 21 2018
Posts: 399


This is just a poll to see how many people are actually benefiting with Obamacare. There is a lot of controversy on who is actually benefiting with it.

Post #765527
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5:41 am, Nov 21 2018
Posts: 981


How is it controversial? Canada already shows how beneficial this system is.

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Post #765531
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10:39 am, Nov 21 2018
Posts: 399


The problem with the US system the people who had health insurance before Obamacare are being penalized. They have nowhere near as good coverage now as they had before Obamacare plus it costs more than their old coverage. You are being restricted to what hospitals you can go to even if it is in the same state. Say for example one hospital in your state specializes in treating certain conditions but is not in the network your insurance is on then you can not go to it but you have to choose the hospital in the state in the network on your insurance that doesn't specialize or have any experience in treating that condition. People who had insurance before Obamacare are in a way better off not having any health insurance at all. Please note this problem only applies to non-senior citizens.

Last edited by RS456 at 12:59 pm, Nov 21

Post #765622
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3:48 pm, Nov 28 2018
Posts: 774


First of all, to make it less "Controversial" just call it it's actual name: Affordable Care Act.
Second of all "Socialized health care lite" won't be perfect until you buy the full version like Canada. (I'm Canadian - I voted appropriately in this poll, I don't live in the states.)

I have many American friends who rely heavily on ACA and benefit from it.

-----

Whenever people talk about privatized healthcare I like to share the story of my friends mom.
My friends mom had Leukemia (Cancer of the blood) 4 separate times, years apart. She has been treated completely free, very little paperwork, and has a house and no debt and is currently cancer free.

If it was the states, she might have been covered by her work insurance, but after taking time off work for chemo she might need to switch jobs. Her new works insurance decides leukemia is a pre existing condition. She dies the second time.

Insurance companies are companies who don't give a fuck about you and will look for any reason to deny you. Relying on them is silly.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

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Post #765627
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4:55 am, Nov 29 2018
Posts: 54


As someone in their twenties who is still on their parent's insurance plan (and currently in college), I have not found use from the Affordable Care Act. Heck I don't even go to the doctors for a yearly check up because I'm lucky enough not to have gotten into a major accident!

HOWEVER, I know that it is a great and amazing for those who do not have health insurance, and I completely support that. I am all for the idea of universal healthcare because health is one thing that so many people overlook, and I hope to never take it for granted.

If the worst would ever happen and my family loses it's primary breadwinner, then I definitely know that my family will need some kind of social assistance even if we are doing well as a middle class now. So I want to help support a system that can work as a safety net and provide for everyone.

Post #765632 - Reply to (#765622) by Kitteh_13
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7:46 am, Nov 29 2018
Posts: 981


Quote from Kitteh_13
She has been treated completely free, very little paperwork, and has a house and no debt and is currently cancer free.

Aside from the fact that you're being taxed an average of $10,500 annually, that you have to wait in lines that could take hours and may not even be what you need, that the system is a wreck that's hopelessly in debt, and that the only reason it doesn't collapse is because America doesn't have it and we're right next door? From all the Canadians I hear, it's no hyperbole to say that "Canadian health care" worse than a third-world country.

Quote from MangaWrym
HOWEVER, I know that it is a great and amazing for those who do not have health insurance, and I completely support that. I am all for the idea of universal healthcare because health is one thing that so many people overlook, and I hope to never take it for granted.

The U.S. already had "universal health care" prior to Obamacare. It's called an emergency room. Anyone can run up to it with an ailment, and the doctors are required to treat the patient. Numerous people have been exploiting that system for years because you are not required to pay.

Last edited by Transdude1996 at 7:52 am, Nov 29

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Post #765633 - Reply to (#765531) by RS456
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12:30 pm, Nov 29 2018
Posts: 20


Quote
The problem with the US system the people who had health insurance before Obamacare are being penalized. They have nowhere near as good coverage now as they had before Obamacare plus it costs more than their old coverage. You are being restricted to what hospitals you can go to even if it is in the same state. Say for example one hospital in your state specializes in treating certain conditions but is not in the network your insurance is on then you can not go to it but you have to choose the hospital in the state in the network on your insurance that doesn't specialize or have any experience in treating that condition. People who had insurance before Obamacare are in a way better off not having any health insurance at all. Please note this problem only applies to non-senior citizens.

Obamacare offer primarily two insurance policy which is Kaiser and Blue Cross. Namely, Blue Cross is a nation wide health insurance company and you can use it to go to any hospital. Even if you have Kaiser, you can still go to other hospital. It's just that you have to pay the outside fee. And if you reach your max out of pocket, you they cover the rest for you. Meaning that it is impossible for you to be restricted to the hospital that you go to regardless of your health insurance.

And Obamacare give you money to pay for heath insurance, not take it. If you're finding yourself having to pay more for health insurance, then that just means you've made enough money to afford it. So stop being cheap and get good health insurance when you can afford it.

The problem I have with Obamacare is that it penalize you in tax if you don't have healthcare. In other words, it force you to get healthcare regardless of whether you want it or not. That's violating my right of choice. What if I don't want healthcare? I will now have to pay for something that I don't want.

But I can get the logic as to why Obamacare does this. If the young people who don't need healthcare pays for it, then the old people who needs it won't have to pay a lot to get healthcare cause the insurance company is already getting free money from the young people. I'm totally fine with that cause after all, I'm going to grow old too and I'm also going to be needing healthcare. I'm willing to sacrifice right now so that I won't have to in the future.

But the biggest problem is that the chances of Obamacare still being here when I get old is very slim. Just one executive order from the president, one congress vote. Just one little thing and Obamacare goes poof. If Obamacare goes away before I get old, it would mean that I made all the sacrifice for nothing.

Post #765634 - Reply to (#765632) by Transdude1996
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12:34 pm, Nov 29 2018
Posts: 20


Quote from Transdude1996
The U.S. already had "universal health care" prior to Obamacare. It's called an emergency room. Anyone can run up to it with an ailment, and the doctors are required to treat the patient. Numerous people have been exploiting that system for years because you are not required to pay.


If we are not required to pay then where does those money come from? From the government. Who get's their money from taxes. Which comes out of our pay check. Which means WE ARE paying for it.


Post #765639 - Reply to (#765634) by scorcher
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4:02 pm, Nov 29 2018
Posts: 981


Quote from scorcher
If we are not required to pay then where does those money come from?

Why do you think hospitals charge exceedingly high prices?

Quite honestly, health care, just like every other industry, is a mess because have moralists pushing for policies that will bankrupt everyone, you have greedy players who want to see how they can make the quickest buck off of it, and you have the trash of society that expect someone else to take care of them. So far, one of the few requirements that I've heard of that will allow "universal health care" to actually succeed is for a country to be homogeneous, which is impossible in the U.S. because two-thirds of the country is white, and the rest are minorities (And, this is leaving out how Canada is in a much worse situation with offloading immigrants by the dozen from China, Africa, and India).

Last edited by Transdude1996 at 4:16 pm, Nov 29

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Post #765640 - Reply to (#765632) by Transdude1996
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4:03 pm, Nov 29 2018
Posts: 523


Quote from Transdude1996
Aside from the fact that you're being taxed an average of $10,500 annually, that you have to wait in lines that could take hours and may not even be what you need, that the system is a wreck that's hopelessly in debt, and that the only reason it doesn't collapse is because America doesn't have it and we're right next door? From all the Canadians I hear, it's no hyperbole to say that "Canadian health care" worse than a third-world country.


To pick apart this post:

1. 'The average' is not very useful since the average amount paid in taxes for anything is skewed by a smaller number of high-income earners. Average per income bracket or median would be more illuminating. At any rate the idea is that everyone deserves equal access to health care - there's an acknowledgement that some people are paying for services they don't use, that some people are disproportionate users of the health care system, etc.. Just because I don't have kids and have never employed the services of the police doesn't mean that I'm going to mount an argument that I shouldn't pay taxes to fund schools or a police force (though I will happily complain about paying my taxes every year). This is the way that social services work. If you don't believe that health care should be a social service, jolly for you, but Canada is working within the boundaries that it should be.

2. Wait lines for hours and not what we need - a wait time at a clinic might be hours in a busy city centre, I don't know. Personally I've never experienced that and doubt that it's the average experience. For procedures - I'm an epileptic and athlete of sorts and have received EEGs, a CAT scan, x-rays and neurology appointments without prolonged wait times. Definitely the wait times for some procedures like MRIs and non-essential surgeries have historically been too long and multiple provinces have now introduced private MRI clinics. The provider in my province is required to give a public scan for every private scan it gives.

3. The only reason it doesn't collapse - this seems like nonsense. Do you have a peer-reviewed study to indicate this is the case?

4. Third-world country health care - Not an issue I'm educated about. I imagine that the upper classes in a developing nation like China have good access to quality medical care. I also imagine that the lower classes have terrible access to quality medical care.

Ultimately while we may have gripes with aspects of our health care system, I've never talked to a Canadian who believes that the US system is superior and we should scrap ours and go with that. Maybe rather than criticizing the Canadian system (which to my knowledge, there are no plans from US politicians to introduce) it would be more beneficial to investigate the problems within the current US system and encourage your politicians to address them.

Post #765643 - Reply to (#765640) by hkanz
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4:53 pm, Nov 29 2018
Posts: 981


Quote from hkanz
'The average' is not very useful since the average amount paid in taxes for anything is skewed by a smaller number of high-income earners.

Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting that the "high income earners" pay for over 50% of the taxes.
Quote from hkanz
Just because I don't have kids and have never employed the services of the police doesn't mean that I'm going to mount an argument that I shouldn't pay taxes to fund schools or a police force

I am because every single year, there is some new bill on the ballot pushing for a tax increase to help fund the police/schools, which is especially worrying when you don't even know where all the money is going. You keep hearing about how the police and schools are understaffed and underfunded, yet, whenever they do increase the taxes, it never fixes the issue, which leads me to believe that the money isn't going towards the services they say it's going towards. On top of that every single educator I have talked to swears to God that all the money that the schools are suppose to receive goes in every direction except towards they programs that where made for (Not to mention that they keep firing educators just to "save on money" ).
Quote from hkanz
2. Wait lines for hours and not what we need - a wait time at a clinic might be hours in a busy city centre, I don't know. Personally I've never experienced that and doubt that it's the average experience. For procedures - I'm an epileptic and athlete of sorts and have received EEGs, a CAT scan, x-rays and neurology appointments without prolonged wait times. Definitely the wait times for some procedures like MRIs and non-essential surgeries have historically been too long and multiple provinces have now introduced private MRI clinics. The provider in my province is required to give a public scan for every private scan it gives.

I guess that means you're in the 2% bracket, lucky you. The average wait time seems to be 21 weeks.
Quote from hkanz
3. The only reason it doesn't collapse - this seems like nonsense. Do you have a peer-reviewed study to indicate this is the case?

Do you wish to read the words of Dr. Martin Samuels, the founder of the neurology department at Harvard’s Brigham and Women’s Hospital, the work done by the Fraser Institute, or even the fact that your own health ministry redirected $100 million to ship patients across the border for treatment.
Quote from hkanz
4. Third-world country health care - Not an issue I'm educated about. I imagine that the upper classes in a developing nation like China have good access to quality medical care. I also imagine that the lower classes have terrible access to quality medical care.

Your own newspapers sate that your health care system is worse than that of China's (Which, now reading further into the article, even the most "unfree" countries, according to the Chinese, have greater freedom with their medical care than Canada).
Quote from hkanz
Maybe rather than criticizing the Canadian system (which to my knowledge, there are no plans from US politicians to introduce)

You're right on that front. Obama himself said that Canadian health care wouldn't work in the U.S.

Last edited by Transdude1996 at 5:03 pm, Nov 29

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Post #765793
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1:47 am, Dec 8 2018
Posts: 774


LOL you wait if you aren't in an emergency situation. If it's an emergency it's bumped up.
You seem to have blinders to the facts.

People in the US are dying from Diabetes, using fish antibiotics cause they can't even afford to go to the walk in for a sinus infection.

The US is the only developed nation that doesnt use socialized health care.

You seem to have a lot of "studies" and "papers" but you haven't experienced it for yourself. It sounds like you've been bootstrap brainwashed. Shows like "Breaking Bad" wouldn't even exist in Canada cause he would get cancer and be supported. End of story.

30% of my pay goes to taxes yes, but it's a small price so that everyone can have a basic standard of living. Which don't get me wrong, we could be doing better for mental health and dental but at least we aren't at square one like the states. The US spends all its taxes on Military and neglects its people.

I don't know how to convince you to give a shit about other people; enjoy your "Space Force"


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Post #765797 - Reply to (#765793) by Kitteh_13
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4:26 am, Dec 8 2018
Posts: 981


Quote from Kitteh_13
LOL you wait if you aren't in an emergency situation. If it's an emergency it's bumped up.

Your own newspapers and diplomats just disputed that in the article that I posted in my previous reply.

Quote from Kitteh_13
People in the US are dying from Diabetes

A disease where 90% to 95% of the cases are the result of unhealthy eating habits and/or a lack of physical activity? You're telling me to be worried about an illness that almost all of it's victims bring upon themselves because of the choices they made?

Quote from Kitteh_13

Did you even look at the list, and what it is that I stated previously:
Quote from Transdude1996
So far, one of the few requirements that I've heard of that will allow "universal health care" to actually succeed is for a country to be homogeneous, which is impossible in the U.S. because two-thirds of the country is white, and the rest are minorities (And, this is leaving out how Canada is in a much worse situation with offloading immigrants by the dozen from China, Africa, and India).

Every single European country on that list, when they insituted "universal health care", was overwhelmingly white or Slavic. Also, looking at the current demographics, Australia is over 91% white, Hong Kong is over 92% Chinese, Japan is over 98% Japanese, South Korea is over 95% Korean, Saudi Arabia is over 90% Arabian, Argentina is over 97% white. DO YOU SEE A PATTERN HERE? Also, I find it a bit hilarious that your own source states:
Quote from Fact/Myth
To be very clear, the above doesn’t mean that every one of these 50 systems delivers the quality of care the U.S. does, and that doesn’t mean everyone of these systems is “working perfectly,” it simply means every other very highly developed country on earth except the United States of America has some form of universal coverage (on-paper at least).

That seems to be a strange comment to make because that implies that countries with "universal health care" deliver a level of quality that is even worse than that of the U.S., that "universal health care" doesn't actually work, and that countries have an "official policy" but they don't follow it at all.

Quote from Kitteh_13
You seem to have a lot of "studies" and "papers" but you haven't experienced it for yourself. It sounds like you've been bootstrap brainwashed. Shows like "Breaking Bad" wouldn't even exist in Canada cause he would get cancer and be supported. End of story.

You are literally, seriously, unironically, using a television series, that is 100% fictitious, that is created for the purpose of entertainment, to justify your argument that your opponent hasn't experienced life?

Quote from Kitteh_13
30% of my pay goes to taxes yes, but it's a small price so that everyone can have a basic standard of living.

Hate to break it to you,5 BILLION PEOPLE experience the same level of poverty (Or worse) than that of Mexico (And, of those 5 billion, 3 billion make less than $2 a day). You mean to tell me that by giving the government 30% your paycheck, for reasons that you don't even give a DAMN about, you're somehow making a difference? Instead of possibly using that money to buy products directly from these impoverished countries (Or even helping the communities in your own country) to help boost their status in the economy?

Quote from Kitteh_13
I don't know how to convince you to give a shit about other people; enjoy your "Space Force".

Thank you, I will because to go back to the moon after...(How long?)...46 years, and seeing such a stagnation in evolutionary growth ever since, will mean that the transport industries will be receiving more work and creating new inventions, the IT field will be receiving more work and creating new inventions, the office supply companies will be receiving more work and creating new inventions (The ballpoint pen), the scientific community will be receiving more work and finding new discoveries, the lobotomy field will be will be receiving more work and finding new discoveries (We have to find a way to breath up there somehow while waiting for canned O2 to arrive), the health care community will be receiving more work and creating new inventions and finding new discoveries...

In fact, I cannot think of a single field of work that wouldn't benefit from pushing civilization to return to the stars. So, why are you so selfish and self-righteous to make fun of it?

Last edited by Transdude1996 at 5:39 am, Dec 8

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Post #765824
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6:02 pm, Dec 8 2018
Posts: 774


So you're racist too. Big shocker.
Let me tell you, Canada is not "White" by any means.

Also people are can be born with diabetes you heartless buffoon.

But stay mad. If the Grinch can grow a heart I'm sure you can too!

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Post #765829 - Reply to (#765824) by Kitteh_13
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8:56 pm, Dec 8 2018
Posts: 981


Quote from Kitteh_13
So you're racist too. Big shocker.
Let me tell you, Canada is not "White" by any means.

80 percent (You're an even whiter country then we are).
Spoiler (mouse over to view)
Although, I wonder how long that will remain true considering how much of an apologetic and immigration fanatic your Prime Minister is.

Also, mind informing me how it is racist to state that, even in theory, a country requires an overwhelming racial majority to be in control (Regardless of if you're Asian, white, or Arabian) for "universal health care" to work?

Quote from Kitteh_13
Also people are can be born with diabetes you heartless buffoon.

And? In the 1950's a third of those diagnosed with Type 1 died within 25 years, and, 20-30 years later, that number dropped to 7 percent. And, it dropped even further to 5 percent by 1993. So, you're asking me to spin my gears worrying about the 5%, of the 5%-10%, of the 9.3% (To put it into perspective, the 0.0465%, at most)?

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