banner_jpg
Username/Email: Password:
Forums

New Poll - Ecchi Definition

Pages (3) [ 1 2 3 ] Next
You must be registered to post!
From User
Message Body
Member

12:37 pm, Mar 15 2020
Posts: 279


This is something for which I would've had a very different answer before studying the Japanese language.

But since I now know that "ecchi" just means "H" (it's literally their pronunciation of H), the idea that westerners make a delineation between "H-manga" and "ecchi manga" is just silly to me. H comes in degrees and basically just means perverted. The limits of what I would consider being okay in Weekly Shonen Jump ends around To Love Ru (the manga version; for those that only saw the TV anime, hahahahahah). But an outright porn doujinshi bought at comiket would still qualify as ecchi by Japanese standards (just... way moreso).

So my answer is There is no limit

Also, the Japanese wikipedia article on エッチ is a good read. They actually have a section dedicated to "usage of 「エッチ」in countries other than Japan" that from my perspective is their way of subtlely making fun of America for being stupid and misunderstanding their words 🙂

Last edited by HikaruYami at 12:43 pm, Mar 15

user avatar
Seinen is RIGHT
 Member

1:43 pm, Mar 15 2020
Posts: 2090


I do have On More Thing before the war on reality begins.
The English wiki article gives us this bit (it and the shorter Japanese entry line up well in their content but wiki isn´t that popular in Japan/Asia): Western usage
In Japan, oiroke manga (お色気漫画) is used to describe manga with very light or playful erotic content such as is found in shonen manga. In western nations though, ecchi has become the preferred term. The more explicit seijin manga (成人向け漫画, seijinmukemanga) are more likely to be referred to as hentai in the west. This does correlate to a similar distinction in Japanese. For instance, if a young woman were to call a young man e(t/c)chi, that might be construed as flirting, whereas hentai sounds more like condemnation.

So just like with the rest of the world. Softcore or hardcore porn to make it very basic.
"成人向け漫画" aka Adult Comic equals hentai. That´s why hentai mags often have "Comic" as part of the title. See, you never stop learning with me! 😉
This is, as my previous post explained, a differentiation in the way you publish. Adult Comics/Hentai are R-18, so a young looking person would need to show identification or would need to pass an age-gate on the web. The actual content on the page of an Oiroke/Ecchi manga can still equal or even surpass some hentai work so Japan and the rest of the anime/manga publishing worlds are mirrors of each other, with some variations in the wording. Definitions are fluid but all use them correctly. A bit like soccer and football. MU does things a bit differently due to the addition of the 2 "content warning" tags but not too much and due to the fact that genres get introduces in the mix.

PS: Wiki IP bans people if you mess with articles. I tripple dog dare you to put these into lockdown. Do it you animals. Dew it.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 3:10 am, Mar 16

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb
User Posted Image
Post #774832 - Reply to (#774829) by residentgrigo
user avatar
Member

4:36 pm, Mar 15 2020
Posts: 941


Quote from residentgrigo
PS: Wiki IP bans people if you mess with articles. I tripple dog dare you to put these into lockdown. Do it you animals. Dew it.

Why?

Wikipedia has been exposed several times for being biased, a fact even the co-founder acknowledges, with this bias only being subverted the more changes a page undergoes (Which becomes a impossibility the moment a page goes into lockdown). Even then, the site admits, itself, that it's not a reliable source. If you're going to use a publicly editable database as a source, why not use something less biased like Infogalactic, or, even better, why not just use a primary source altogether?

Also, where's the humor in it? A Way Out (And it's related pages) only received it's vandalism because people saw it as a hilarious follow-up to Fares' "Fuck the Oscars" live shitpost.

________________
User Posted Image
Post #774847 - Reply to (#774829) by residentgrigo
Member

10:51 am, Mar 16 2020
Posts: 309


Quote from residentgrigo
The most unproductive contribution yet came from zarlan´s 2nd post. Suprise? No. A bad look? Yes.

And here I thought you were a mostly sensible guy, yet you're writing this needlessly aggressive, ad hominem-ish (not actual ad hominem, but in the style of), and troll-y, crap?
...
I'm deeply disappointed.
Quote
Even the prudish MPAA would disagree with the assessment that softcore porn = porn. That´s how that definition came about.

Sofcore PORNOGRAPHY isn't pornography?
You're just simply wrong.
Look it up anywhere.
Any dictionary that has the term (some don't, for some bizarre reason. It's a common word, so it should be included. Must be prudishness, I suppose?), defines it as a type/class of porn. As does any encyclopedia (in the case of Wikipedia, both Softcore pornography and Pornography#Classification) or the like
...or any other source, you may think of.

As for "MPAA"...
I can only assume that you are referring to the Motion Picture Association of America, and/or their ratings system. (rather Americanocentric...)
What the hell they are supposed to have to do with any of this...
They don't mention or speak of porn, at all.
Just G, PG, PG-13, R, and NC-17.
Neither of these, being defined specifically or in part by the issue of porn (nudity, sex, and such things, do effect the ratings, but...), nor do they speak to, much less define, what is or isn't porn.

They may have some vague indirect affect, on public perceptions about what defines something as porn, but...
Quote
Such an institution doesn´t exist for the book and thus comic market.

So what?
We're not talking about institutions.
They are irrelevant, to this topic.
Quote
That´s why the manga kiddy porn market managed to become such a Kraken.

Manga kiddy porn doesn't effect or involve actual children, and there is no actual evidence, for any increase in real life assault, due to it.
That is why it is, and should be, allowed, regardless of how distasteful and disgusting it is.
If you allow banning stuff, just because you don't like it, without any valid and objective justification, such as genuine harm...
Then you have eliminated the whole concept of Free Speech/Expression.

Now the disturbingly large market for, more or less sexualized, loli stuff (though it should be noted that anime seems to be almost completely marketed, specifically, at a particular kind of otaku, rather than the Japanese, or even nerds/otaku, overall), the market for stuff like enjou kousai, places where you get to hang out with teenage girls ...the softcore/porn-ish magazines with genuine children...
Those are some serious problems.
Quote
but works as Gundam or Eva have Echi elements and those aren´t even comedies

Ecchi elements are very common. In anime, they are the norm, nowadays. (manga is still more diverse)
Quote
The web and digital distribution made the whole film (or game) rating debate a tad obsolete.

Just a reminder: This poll and discussion, has absolutely nothing to do with ratings.
Quote
[a whole bunch of stuff about the debates and conflicts, in regards to censorship and ratings and all that]

Just to remind you: None of that is actually relevant or related to this topic.
Quote
Our poll designer cares so much about/.../

As I said, and as you should know from my previous confrontations with him, I agree that he is a troll ...and have expressed surprise and disappointment at the fact that he is still allowed on the forum, after all the shit he's pulled ...but in the case of this, specific, poll and this, specific, discussion... (before you made that comment, that is. His latest post, here, however...)
Quote
PS: Some, actually a lot, of the modern Ecchi manga draw the airbrushed nipples, anuses and the partial vulvas/penises back in for the print and the paid digital versions.

Seriously? Isn't that illegal? (in Japan, that is)
I thought that was only done with scans ...and stuff sold outside of Japan, I suppose.
Well I guess you could sell it from just outside Japan. The Japanese buyers would end up owning something illegal, but...
Quote
PS: Wiki IP bans people if you mess with articles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don't_abbrevi ate_%22Wikipedia%22_as_%22Wiki%22!

Post #774850 - Reply to (#774847) by zarlan
user avatar
Member

4:38 pm, Mar 16 2020
Posts: 941


Quote from zarlan
Seriously? Isn't that illegal? (in Japan, that is)

Japan's censorship laws are all over the place to where what is considered "illegal" literally changing with every ruling, because Japan's court system leaves the decision up to the judge of the current trial and they don't "run it up the ladder" like Western countries. It all started back in the 50's (With the U.S. basically telling Japan to figure it out for themselves) with some French NTR novel being considered the limit, then nudity later become alright as long as the genitals weren't show (Which some studios slipping by with having the characters/actors being unshaven), then it was alright to show everything as long as it was "tasteful", and, now, there's a new proposal going through to allow material to be uncensored altogether.

Long story short, all media that is "distasteful to the general public" is considered illegal in Japan, but the government doesn't really care unless they have a bone to pick with someone.

________________
User Posted Image
user avatar
Seinen is RIGHT
 Member

12:47 am, Mar 17 2020
Posts: 2090


The madness rages on. I wonder how long it takes to find all the garbage links and how many of them are actually read by the posters? Imagine having this much free time... I rarely open these, so don´t bother. Or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Don't abbreviate "Wikipedia" as "Wiki" is somehow the weirdest one as it is a self-titled "humorous essay" (even total shit can make it on wiki´s hidden features, with a waifu mascot to top it off, lol) and Wikipedia is and always was a type of wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Shocking right? Have fun with the
User Posted Image
in this hell topic but there is a place where your questions about tags and genres can be answered! Namely here: Categories (Tags) Bug Thread. Well, kinda. My good deed of the day.
Summon me there if questions arise and releasing stuff with uncensored genitalia has lead to police raids and criminal charges.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-07-25/core-magazine-head-editor-2-more-arrested-for-obscene-manga-photos

And all the other stuff I already covered (Aki Sora and like a dozen others a decade ago). Oh wait, it´s my article again which features primary sources to drop the magaton so that the cheap seats can hear me too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misshitsu
The manga that broke the camel´s back on MU if you got curious Misshitsu (it´s a rape porno).

But who will one listen to in this Marketplace of Ideas? A Japanese press agency, primary sources that quote convictions and the criminal code or an outspoken Neo-Nazi on a comic forum 😕 . Decision, decisions. I should be paid for the services I proved here... I am dunzo for the week, see you next poll everynyan. What a shit-show. At least it drives traffic so the admins can be happy.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 1:08 am, Mar 17

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb
User Posted Image
Post #774854 - Reply to (#774853) by residentgrigo
user avatar
Member

1:17 am, Mar 17 2020
Posts: 941


Quick questions: Why are you losing your complete mind over this poll?

________________
User Posted Image
user avatar


4:27 am, Mar 17 2020
Posts: 9824


The next people to respond to this argument gets banned from the forums for a few days. I'm trying to not lock down the entire news post

________________
A just ruler amongst tyrants
user avatar
Member

7:02 pm, Mar 17 2020
Posts: 41


To me nudity (like a woman's bare chest) doesn't have to be sexual. In Ranma 1/2, they used it to just show off the fact that a boy has turned into a girl. However, I haven't seen genitalia in anything that didn't involve graphic sex.

So, I went with "Nothing bare should be shown that's below the waist." I've always felt that ecchi is enticing, but doesn't go into blatant sex scenes. So, if I see anything nudity down below, I am reading hentai or a particularly smutty yaoi.



Post #774880 - Reply to (#774855) by lambchopsil
Member

11:48 am, Mar 18 2020
Posts: 309


Quote from lambchopsil
The next people to respond to this argument gets banned from the forums for a few days. I'm trying to not lock down the entire news post

Ehm... Just to clarify: Does that mean that none of us three are allowed to make any comments, in this thread? Because the argument was about... well about the topic of this thread, so...

Post #774881 - Reply to (#774867) by ceruleantear
Member

12:25 pm, Mar 18 2020
Posts: 309


As this particular argument is about what is sexual, rather than what counts as porn, as such, I think I'm probably safe in responding to this, so...:
Quote from ceruleantear
To me nudity (like a woman's bare chest) doesn't have to be sexual.

I think anyone who says that, is deluding themselves.
Boobs (so not breasts, generally, but the female human chest, specifically), even covered, are inherently sexual
...as much as anything is inherently sexual, that is.
In that it is hardwired into humans, as something we respond to, in sexual terms.

The only reason that boobs exist, that they ever came about, is to be sexual.
...and no, they are not needed for breastfeeding. A woman who literally as flat-chested as a boy (unlike the notably protruding mounds, in clear need of bras, that is (to my confusion) usually what is referred to as a "washboard", or "chopping block", or the like, and said to be "completely flat" ), is perfectly good to breastfeed a baby. Granted, there will need to be some temporary swelling, during and in preparation for the breastfeeding, but...

Humans are quite the exception, in having prominent breasts on females (there's also goats and cows, but aside from that...)

Some like to counter "in most primitive societies, the women don't cover their breasts", but I fail to see how that is supposed to be a sign that it isn't seen as sexual. (besides, I doubt that anyone would argue that nudists prove that nothing about the human body is sexual)

In fact, I'd argue that, visually speaking, boobs are far more sexual, than the vagina. What is done with/to the vagina is generally far more sexual, but purely visually... (and the vagina is not exactly known for its beauty ...and neither is the penis, for that matter)
Quote
In Ranma 1/2, they used it to just show off the fact that a boy has turned into a girl.

You think that the showing of naked boobs, in a series made for horny young teen boys, wasn't put in there purely for the purposes of sexual fan-service?
You think that the target audience of horny young teen boys, don't see the boob as sexual? Don't get sexually excited by them?
(I'd say it's sexual regardless of age, but that particular demographic in particular...)

user avatar
MongolianChopSquad
Member

12:55 pm, Mar 18 2020
Posts: 160


it goes too far when it happens way too often

________________
User Posted Image
Post #774883 - Reply to (#774881) by zarlan
user avatar
Member

2:40 pm, Mar 18 2020
Posts: 941


Quote from zarlan
Quote
In Ranma 1/2, they used it to just show off the fact that a boy has turned into a girl.

You think that the showing of naked boobs, in a series made for horny young teen boys, wasn't put in there purely for the purposes of sexual fan-service?
You think that the target audience of horny young teen boys, don't see the boob as sexual? Don't get sexually excited by them?
(I'd say it's sexual regardless of age, but that particular demographic in particular...)

You do realize that Ranma 1/2 was written by a woman, right? Also, what is wrong with making a series targeted towards "horny young teen boys"?

On top of that, what's stopping you from thinking that the person making the series just wanted to make softcore erotic and/or show off sexually attractive characters altogether, demographics be damned?

________________
User Posted Image
user avatar
Member

3:52 am, Mar 19 2020
Posts: 68


None of these options really define the difference between ecchi and hentai for me. A story can be fully erotic without being full blown pornographic. Porn/Hentai is when the story focuses mainly or solely on sex...if the sex is just part of the story and not a main focus...then it's just an ecchi.

Post #774905 - Reply to (#774883) by Transdude1996
Member

8:34 pm, Mar 19 2020
Posts: 309


Quote from Transdude1996
You do realize that Ranma 1/2 was written by a woman, right?

What makes you think that the creator being female, has anything to do with it not being sexual and/or not catering to male sexual titillation?
I'm certainly not saying that Takahashi Rumiko is as bad as, say, Akamatsu Ken, but...
Note that both Ranma and Urusei Yatsura are tagged as ecchi here (and anywhere else you'd like to check, I don't doubt ...and I'd argue that there are some more of her manga, that should have an ecchi tag, as well. Maison Ikkoku, for example [I'd like to point to some more, but I haven't actually read a lot of her work, to be honest. I believe those three works are the only ones I have any familiarity with, actually] ...and aniDB agrees, it would seem)

There are tons of examples of shounen/seinen works with plenty of ecchi for guys, and even male targeted porn, made by women. (not to mention female ecchi/porn, of course)
Because they like it, their editors/publishers push for it, or just to make money... (I'd say there's some of all three) either way, it's common enough.

Pages (3) [ 1 2 3 ] Next
You must be registered to post!