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New Poll - Loli/Shota

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3:28 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 9929


This week's poll was suggested by Akemi Mokoto. We've actually done similar polls back in 2014 and 2016, and the majority said that they should not be banned. I reworded the question slightly to emphasize the sexual content and see if that makes a difference.

You can submit poll ideas here
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: You're stranded without hope of rescue for the foreseeable future. You're unable to hunt, know nothing about plants, but have the means to make fire. You begin starving. You stumble across the fresh corpse of a person. Do you eat the body?
Choices:
No - votes: 1902 (59%)
Yes - votes: 1324 (41%)
There were 3226 total votes.
The poll ended: December 27th 2020

Survival of the fittest? Or will ethics dictate things?

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Seinen is RIGHT
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4:20 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 2137


No but it is child pornography and is likely illegal in your country. Very very likely. So the question is redundant. Your state already made up its mind and you will never have the option to influence its legal status. That shit is also a legal minefield in Japan, obviously heavily frowned upon and the heat only keeps rising against such creators. The walls will soon close in. Let´s see what MU will do then if the site is still around. The old works already exist and aren´t going anywhere.

The last poll on this kept going for 3 weeks and was toxic AF. Round 3 😁. Even fewer people post now but the boards also grew worse.

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4:38 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 1026


As I've said innumerable times already: IT IS A DRAWING. There's nothing illegal about it, and it should not be banned. Even the U.S. told the U.N. to fuck off when they proposed banning such content. And, you cannot ban it anyway because of the 1st.

Ironically, from what I've seen, the only people who seem to be in favor and the most vocal about banning lolis and shotas all "coincidentally" happen to be legit pedos, themselves.
Spoiler (mouse over to view)
But, that's typical of most social justice groups.


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Post #787737 - Reply to (#787735) by Transdude1996
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6:35 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 5


Lol at a guy named Transdude complaining about social justice groups.

Post #787738
Member

7:09 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 3


If loli/shota gets banned, what will have to go next? Yaoi/hentai with consent issues?

It's a slippery slope, folks. And, as mentioned earlier in the comments, we're talking about fantasies (drawings) here, not real people. Hence the warnings.

Post #787740
Member

8:24 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 337


In a sensible/civilized country, you don't just ban stuff, because you don't like them.
Indeed, the whole point of Free Speech/Expression, is that you must never do so. It's all about protecting that which people dislike. That which is inoffensive, needs no protection.
Much like how people in court, are considered "innocent until proven guilty", much the same applies to actions/possessions.
You ban that which is genuinely harmful.

Real child pornography, involving real children?
That is a horrible violation of the child(ren) in question. It is essentially a continuation and repeating, of the violation that is generally involved in the making of it.
Clearly that must be illegal, and punished severely.

Fictional images, depicting representations of children, but not in any way involving any real children, which are pornographic?
That doesn't involve any actual children, nor is there are valid evidence, that is able to even suggest that is is able to even indirectly harm any real children. That is makes anyone into a paedophile, or makes paedophile more likely to violate children, or is used by them to convince children to accept their advances, or anything like that.

Conclusion:
There is zero reason, to ban it.
Dislike it? Find it disgusting and despicable? Find the existence of it, depressing and disappointing?
Absolutely!
Ban?
Hell no!

P.S. There is a lot of not strictly porn loli/shota material out there, that is still clearly meant to be there, to appeal to certain people, in a sexual way. The condemnation of loli/shota material I've mentioned above, should be just as applied to that.

Post #787741 - Reply to (#787737) by julia36
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8:29 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 337


Quote from julia36
Lol at a guy named Transdude complaining about social justice groups.

He's a troll. Just ignore him. I am constantly amazed, at why he hasn't been banned, ages ago,

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8:55 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 31


This is a hard question.

Do I mind a sexual content in manga? Not really, as long as it contributes something to the story and not being a mere fanservice. Do I personally agree with loli/shota with sexualized content? No. Children world is complex and far from pure, but sexualizing them through manga feels wrong. Do I agree of banning it? Personally, yes I prefer this option. Even if I say no, my country certainly would not allow something like this to be published.

But does banning something would solve the problem of sexualizing children? No. That's why if somehow there's any manga with loli/shota sexualized content published in my country, I hope the person in the cashier bookstore should really pay attention to the buyer so that no children or those underage read that. I say this because the regulation in my country is too lax. Even an elementary kid can buy cigarates from street vendors.

Member

9:57 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 46


Man, you people who voted "No" are sick. 😠

Post #787745 - Reply to (#787743) by Animechic420
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10:31 pm, Dec 27 2020
Posts: 337


Quote from Animechic420
Man, you people who voted "No" are sick. 😠

Tell me:
In what way, is loli/shota porn actually harmful?
What actual harm does it cause? (regardless of whether it is directly or indirectly)
Keep in mind that loli/shota works involve drawings, and not actual children.

Or are you saying that anything we consider disgusting, must be banned?
…which would mean an abolishment of Free Speech/Expression, and then a ban on:
tattoos, piercings, colouring of hair, any and all expressions of political views and opinions, discrimination, opposition to discrimination, spiders, insects, rodents, snakes, a lot of people with birth defects, various kinds of disabled people, homosexuality, bisexuality, heterosexuality, fat people, skinny people, people who like manga/anime…
I could go on.
For pages upon pages …and never be able to make the list complete.

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1:22 am, Dec 28 2020
Posts: 232


No. It's just drawings.

Nobody was harmed or exploited in making the image.

Post #787748
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3:09 am, Dec 28 2020
Posts: 531


No, unless there’s data to indicate that pedophiles who look at such drawings are more likely to abuse children.

Post #787749 - Reply to (#787748) by hkanz
Member

3:38 am, Dec 28 2020
Posts: 300


Exactly this.

And while I'm not aware of studies on the subject (it'd be very hard to study), if studies on violent video games are any indication, loli/shota manga most likely acts as a safe outlet for such people, exactly the opposite of making them act out their desires IRL

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Mr. Brightside
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3:49 am, Dec 28 2020
Posts: 116


Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. This includes a very low rate of crimes against children. While loli/shota is gross I can only assume that it's a neutral/positive from a crime prevention standpoint.

I also think it's important to protect artistic freedom of expression as much as possible, and bans like this can often result in unintentional overreach. The government operates with a sledgehammer - not a scalpel.

I'm fine with keeping loli/shota legal for these two reasons.

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Post #787751 - Reply to (#787749) by HikaruYami
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4:06 am, Dec 28 2020
Posts: 1026


Thus far, the ONLY study that has even been conducted for this "specifically" was in Denmark several years ago, with their results stating that there is no connection to be found whatsoever. Outside of that, the closest direct studies that exist state that everywhere where porn is more easily accessible, sexual assault decreases across the board.

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