Digital-Eon

Actually all manga is copyright of the mangaka and the respective publisher. It's like saying a philipino fan scanning spider-man and releasing it in the native language just because he can. In other words we're treading on some really fine grey area here. Just because the manga isn't licensed in your respective country does not mean its not copyrighted material.

vinceasuma
Was that a personal attack against Singapore, being my country and you saying that we're a 3rd world country living like animals or was that just a random comment?

Tmoo

Exactly. Finally someone who agrees with me.

luv_lucy

To think that one can go to the lengths to find manga online, but not search for alternatives is a bit ridiculous... No? Self denial and lack of knowledge, are hardly the problem here. They can afford $0.16,correct me if I'm wrong, a day. That's really nothing for a person who works. Hell even if you're leeching off parents or some other form of income, don't tell me you cannot afford $0.16.

Tmoo

Live and let live. We are no saints to try 'educate' others. We can give advice to people not force ideals onto them. As far as I see this thread isn't moving forward towards any kind of solution. If lemondude keeps up on his promise of setting up a free DDL site, without the crap then bravo. We've taken a huge step forward. Until that happens, I doubt anything else is of consequence or worth mentioning. As for the watermark, no can do buddy. I hate to do this shit, spoils the page. In fact I'll opt for my solution posted earlier. Talk with Tazmo, to include the credits page. Heck we can even help him advertise, if that is what he needs to keep the page. To say that he makes money off us when we're not regconised for it is understandable. Will you allow him to earn if we come out with my arrangement. Likely most won't. Because we're already too preoccupied with meeting release datelines than to worry about some joker making cash off us. I'm not for Tazmo, nor am I protesting vehemently against him. I'll say it again, Live and Let live.

has anyone asked tazmo himself, why he's doing this?

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I tried, but he never answers.

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Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?


Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0

[img]You ppl are such hypocrites.
So what if tazmo makes money on selling scanlations that can be downloaded for free if you can find it?
Do that mean every manga artist should be boycotted because someone is scanlationg his/her work and giving out the scanlations for free?

Or are you claiming that scanlators have a "harder" copyright then the original author of the work? so it's only wrong to sell scanlations but not wrong to scanlate the original work?

And you seems to forget something here what tazmo offers is not the scanlations in particular but the service his server provides. And his service is obvious good as ppl rater pay a monthly fee of some kind to get the manga fast and easy from one place rater then surfing around the net and irc servers to get there daily manga fix.

So plz stop for a while and think about what you really are against the moronic copyright laws of today that can put anyone behind bars for many many years if you got the right lawyers?
Or is it the free marked that lets you sell or buy whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone?

are you stupid?

Tazmo makes money from work of others, in other words it is like scanlators were working for him. I don't give a fuck to the copyright laws, but making a living out of the work of others just rubs me the wrong way.

Last edited by Mamsmilk at 11:27 am, Jul 12 2007

I think a lot of people is missing the fact that first of all, charging for something that can be gotten for free is wrong. Second of all, because the fact that we are (as scanlators, translators, edittors of manga.) already treading on very gray area here. With something that draws as much attention as money can easily turn that gray area of refudge into smitterines.

People have to remember, it's not like he needs all that money to run the server. He's gaining PROFIT (in case for those kiddies out there who doesn't understand, he's getting more money than he actually needs to run the server. Hence he's actually making money.) from things that could be gotten for free, with our (again, scanlators, translators, edittors.) hard work. Before anyone go flaming about saying how we are boycotting him = we should also boycott the mangaka. Hey, at least they are rightfully making their money through their own sweat and blood. Not with other's work. I want all of you to remember, scanlating groups get NOTHING (money wise) out of scanlating manga for you all out there.

There is absolutely no justification for removing credit pages. You can talk about copyrights and scanlations being illegal all you want, but nothing can justify Tazmo removing the credits to prevent others from knowing who did that hard work. THAT is one of the major issues here.

Says who? You can get a lot of software, music, movies, etc. for free, but is charging for that wrong? Of course, the obvious amendment would be "... that can be legally obtained for free ..." but then scanslations no longer fall under that category either.


You don't seriously think publishing companies are unaware of the situation, do you? Hell, a Google search for Naruto yields Narutofan as the 2nd result, behind wikipedia's entry, and 2 listings AHEAD of Viz's own Naruto site. Putting aside the understanding many companies have with the scanslation community (DH doesn't even really mind scanslation of titles they've licensed under certain conditions), if it's the money you're worried about, fear not. If companies had any intention of taking action, they would've done so long ago.


Server operating costs aren't the only costs involved in running a site like that. It takes time to collect all the releases, update the website with links, etc. Removing credits pages may or may not be an evil conspiracy to keep people in the dark; I don't really know why he does it, but there are non-insidious reasons to remove it (credits pages are distracting when reading in bulk; scanslators try putting the credits in page margins if it bothers you). Anyway, the time it takes to run the site is time that could otherwise be spent being otherwise productive.

Oh, and people who think he's raking it in, show me the proof. Yeah, he's getting $8/month/person, but also consider how many servers are needed, not only to store the content, but to maintain speeds - 100mbit only goes so far, and as membership increases, costs also increase. I'm not a member, so I don't know what kinds of speed the site provides, but nowadays 100mbit will probably serve less than 100 people.


Actually, lots of groups receive donations from fans who want to support their efforts. No, it's not as regular a source of income as fees, but morally, ethically, and legally, it's really the same.


Actually there is.
(1) save space, and thus bandwidth. 200KB may not seem like much, but try 200KB for every chapter, times ######## hosted chapters.
(2) Remove distractions. When you're reading something volumes at a time, it can be distracting to see that same credits page every ~20 pages. Sure, it's not that hard to skip over it, but perhaps he doesn't like having it in.
(3) Some groups are idiots about it. Like, sometimes you'll see a credits page, a separate splash page, maybe a recruitment page, maybe a comments page, and so on. And then some groups like to include a dozen different versions of one page, colored by a dozen different idiots who think they're artistically talented because they don't need numbers to color. Hell, I've seen a 12MB release before, where 7 of those 12 megs weren't even the manga.


Try putting the credits in the page margins. I mean, really, how much space does it take to list four or five names. If he takes the time to edit those out, I'll be impressed.

Also, as a scanslator, is it really that horrible to not get recognition for what you did, from a bunch of people who don't know who you are, and will never visit your website or forum or irc channel? Even if he did include the credits, does it matter? It's not like your scanslation effort will help you get a job or anything meaningful, so is it really that painful for your online alter ego to receive a little less stroking?

@p00k
it seems like ur supporting tazmo.

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And that's an excuse... how? How can so many other scanlation sites afford to host all those scanlation pages when we've clearly established that Tazmo can definitely afford it?



"Not liking something" is no excuse for that blatant disrespect. As someone who downloads lots of manga, I can safely say that I'd prefer the distraction.



Right, I agree that's a bit much, but does that mean that the group shouldn't even have the CREDITS page?



Then tell that to the scanlating groups. As long as there are credit pages being taken out, that's wrong. I also must say that it's a much bigger "distraction" to have credits in the page margins than on a separate page.



Apparently, to some people, yes. I've never scanlated anything myself (having been a bit unmotivated), but plenty of scanlators are upset about that. I know I'd feel just a little happier having that there. No, it won't help you get a job, but people want recognition for what they did. It's not wrong to want that, and it's definitely not too much for people to ask.

...he's not supporting Tazmo...he is Tazmo....
[Everyone, lit the torches and get ready the pitch forks. the Tazmo Hunt is now in action.]

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Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?


Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0

@p00k: your reasons for removing the credits pages are pure bullshit. really. the only valid reason he might have to take the pain and effort of removing every scan-group credit page would be to keep his members from knowing. you know how dictators work yes? they keep their people un-educated so they won't rebel. same concept here. he wants their money, thus he's going to make sure they keep paying him. you accept that yes?

and about scanlating: they do it because they want to, and considering the effort put into it, respect for them is only natural. yes, they want recognition to keep them motivated.



more bullshit. scan groups don't require payment, perhaps i'm wrong in a few cases, but the majority of scanlating does not, unlike tazmo, who requires you to pay to read scans. donations are given voluntarily by the individual, not required by protocol such as membership.

and for him to work so aggressively to take out the credits page means that narutofan is very important to him. hmm. i'd love to know what would happen should it be screwed over. and as far as i'm concerned, he probably does browse the various scanlation forums/sites out there, to keep tabs and see what we're going to do next. this page won't help much since he'll probably take it out. but, not my problem. if people are ignorant and want to waste their money, fine by me.

EDIT: i'm more than willing to bet he has a team of people under him keeping the populace under control.

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Its amazing that there are still people supporting/defending this guy. You guys put up quite an argument too but theres some thing i just don't get. I may not be knowledgeable on the matter of the costs of maintaining a server, but isn't making a website that provides manga scanslation supposed to be out of your own free will? I mean, if his website didn't exist, there are till a bunch of other websites to get them from not to mention that its free. He chose to make the website(I'm assuming he wasn't forced or anything here) and then found out that his bills exceeds his lunch money. Some scanslation group ask for donations but really, they're DONATIONS. and if you aren't quite sure what that means, it basically, given on free will. in addition to that, some groups don't even get much! I've seen groups that had a collection of $10? for more than a month. Some don't even get that high.


Heres a reason: BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT HIS PAYING CUSTOMERS TO GO TO THE SCANSLATOR'S WEBSITE! - they'll find out that its actually free -_- and furthermore, they'll find out that the work isn't done by Tazmo or anyone related. It's the same with artists - we sign our work so that people know we did it. It's not showing off really. It's just that it really sucks if someone claimed your work their own - simple as that.
And again, his website isn't the backbone of the internet community or anything, if it were to disappear, there are a bunch of other ones to go to - which don't charge. This may be because they pull the money out of their own pockets or w/e or maybe they just use free servers(?) or the money that they get from ads even. ooh and yeah, the download speeds on the free website can be fast too.

Please don't, I tilt my head for this even though i can let the program rotate the image for me. It pisses me off if it's not related to the story(and hurts my neck too )

I can't give prove but theres a theory. Lets say the costs of maintaining a server etc etc is about $500/month. Now if members pay $8/month and the number of members exceeds 100, that's already $800/month which is a $300 profit. I don't know what he means by members (if they all pay, or some signed up but don't do anything) but there are currently ~1,906,683 members (i checked). Gee, I wonder how much THAT adds up to per month. Profit? naaah...it's just spare money. OF COURSE THERE'S PROFIT! Every business feeds off profit. If you don't then what the hell are you doing when you sell the same amount that you buy? might as well don't sell at all. The business world is evil. I've lived and experienced that. Profit is obviously needed but that also depends on just how much profit per person you make. So if you wanna say there's no profit, YOU prove it.

edit: ah damn it, you beat me to it Tmoo, but I'll post this anyway

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Everyday I'm tumblin'

I don't see where this is going, so you proved a few points to poo, so wat so now he's not going to go to tazmo? not sure he does anyways.

So by arguing you have done absolutely nothing.

Side note: 13 more post till stop posting! Yaa

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Starter of Controversy.