@mogiks

Good to know. Thanks.

The problem with using kanji, though technically correct, is that this is an english site and most users can't read kanji, or even identify them. Many user's computers don't even have the character set installed, and see only actual gibberish. For the majority of users it would drastically reduce usability of the site.

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Technically, you can change how a series appears in one of your lists by removing it from the list, and using the bulk add feature to add it again under the name you prefer (as long as the name is listed as an associated title). I don't think that doing this loses any information you previously stored for the series (I know that the ratings don't get lost, I'm not sure about the volume/chapter information for series on the reading list).

Although it's a minor detail, I'd really appreciate it if, when using the search by genre to specifically search my lists (e.g. searching with the option "Only show manga on my complete list" selected), the results would show series under the same titles I use in my lists. Currently, it seems such searches always show the main title from the series page. I rather doubt that it would be easy to implement such a change...

Most browsers today should be able to read the foreign character set. If not you just need to activate/install it. My knowledge of Japanese is not that great, but it is not too hard to look it up in a dictionary/on the Internet.

And like you said before,



Last edited by mamilove at 3:52 pm, Mar 5 2011

QFT
Also, while some people can type in Japanese, most people cannot. It would seriously hinder usability of the site.

I like the way it is now- I can search romanized (though sometimes the romanizations are wrong) or translated (those can be incorrect too) or just the title in Japanese.

With another release of the manga Pheremomania Syndrome, I note that the admins still haven't fixed the name on the top of the page. Please refer to my earlier post where I pointed out that there has never been a release of any manga under the name Joshi Mousou Shoukougun, nor is this even correct, as the title is clearly spelled out in Katakana as Pheremomania Syndrome. This is the correct title. Trying to force everything into romaji is simply wrong, and if I'm doing a search, it should never, ever come up with Joshi Mousou Shoukougun. Even if you're looking on a Japanese website its never listed that way even in Kanji. Insisting that it be romaji on the top of the page really is pathetic. Please change it back to read Pheremomania Syndrome on the top of the page.

http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=1181

Also change the alternate title to Pheremomania Syndrome - Joshi Mousou Shoukougun. It is not the other way around. Joshi Mousou Shoukougun, is nothing more then a subtitle. Its like this...

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

If you ignored Dr. Strangelove and only put How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb on the top of the page.

Sorry, thought I pointed out what was wrong with it. Which part do you think makes it ok? You think changing the manga to be listed by its subtitle is preferable to using its real title? Is that because having it be a English word somehow offends you? You do realize this is an english language site right?

As a further example, if you worked in a library and tried to shelve books not by their title, but by secondary titles, they would throw you out. Thats what you are trying to do in this case. While I am firmly in favor of fixing this romaji fetish you guys have, I realize I'm in the minority on that one. However this particular manga is different. You are using the wrong name. Its as simple as that.

How many people do you need to get to approve shifting it back to its real title? If I go and get a bunch of people to come and post here, would that satisfy you? Again, not asking for every manga to be changed, just that specific one.

*sigh* I was summarizing that many members don't mind having the kanji title over the latter.

MU may be an English website, but that does not mean that said series have to use its other name.

Anyways, I'll leave the other admins to have their say, alright?

Last edited by holy`bell at 9:59 am, Apr 21 2011

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The main title's in large letters... the Katakana is mostly an aid for those that don't know the kanji.

If the author wanted the title as フェロモマニア シンドローム, then 女子妄想症候群 would not be there in the first place.

Also, Pheromomania is not the same as Girl/s Delusion; so, it's more of a subtitle than an alternate reading.

So, it's seen as...
Joshi Mousou Shoukougun
Pheromomania Syndrome

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Kanji is the main title, as opposed to the katakana, which as Toto said, is a reading aid, and perhaps a different pronunciation for when the author wants to use English words or other such things.

As it stands, the main title is big...that's why it's the main title.

to Molenir: I can definitely relate to your wanting everything to be done properly. As such, I'll do my best to explain the current system we use and the rationale behind it.

Luckily, I already wrote a summary of the rules for series names, which I worked really hard on, so I'll just link to it: here.

Now on to reasons. To my understanding, there is one main--and actually, very simple--reason for using the romaji equivalent of the kanji name: it's that it is the closest thing to the original title that an English speaker can read. In other words, the method represents a compromise between those two goals.
(The same reasoning is applied for series that have more than one title on their covers: The most prominent title on the original cover is treated as the most correct one, because we assume that since the mangaka bothered to make it the biggest on the cover, it is intended to be the most official name of the series. So for a series with a title like 女子妄想症候群 , which has a furigana on the cover that is different from the normal hiragana reading of those kanji, we use the romaji for the normal hiragana (じょしもうそう しょうこうぐん ). The kanji title is larger, so it is taken to be the most correct title, meaning that the normal hiragana reading that corresponds to it is more correct. However, since one could certainly argue that フェロモマニア シンドローム is how the title should be pronounced (as that is the function of furigana), it's understandable that some would take the romanization of the furigana (Pheromomania Syndrome) to be the correct title. I'd be willing to accept that, but just be aware that the former approach is the convention here. (Note: To be clear, although the result is that the main title sounds English, the intent is to accurately represent the official title, not merely to Anglicize it.) For a series with a kanji title and some smaller English title, again the romanization of the kanji title will be used. For a series with an English title and some smaller Japanese title, then the English title would be used.)

Another, lesser reason for the current method's use is practicality. For most series, there is no English name, so romanizing the kanji title will be the most widely used method, even if we did implement your suggestion. For the manga that do have English versions, it's one less thing for updaters to worry about if they can just romanize the Japanese name, as opposed to having to check for an English version of each series and then add that name. Additionally, using romaji names eliminates the extra task of having to change names of series that have an English version of them made in the future--if we insisted on the English title, the main title will have to be switched to the new English one, which makes extra work for admins, searching for these series and switching their main titles. It's just more practical for there to simply be one main title, which is always correct, no matter what new versions come out.
That's my understanding of the matter, at least. I hope that helps clear things up a little.

Edit: Aw, Toto beat me to it. That's what I get for taking too long to write stuff... Oh well. Anyway, I think his calling the フェロモマニア シンドローム a subtitle or caption is a very good way to describe it.

Last edited by lynira at 10:26 am, Oct 9 2011

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Thank you guys for responding. Obviously I'm disappointed with that response, but I appreciate your guys taking the time to explain your reasoning, even if I do disagree with it.

My own preference is to go by release name. As in, if the scanalators release a manga titled Pheremomania Syndrome, that should be what it is primarily labeled as. Have the romaji listed under associated names. If there is a question, or 2 scanalators release the same manga, one using the translated name, the other using the romaji version, I would have no issue with the romaji being given preference. That would deal with the issue of professionals butchering the renaming of a series, the most egregious example being Kimi wa Pet, where Tokyopop came out of nowhere with the most hideous renaming ever. (Tramps like us) An example on the other side would be Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer, aka Hoshi no Samadare. Originally it was released as the first title, but later scanalators used the second.

However a case like Pheremomania Syndrome, where it has never, not once been released under its alternate romaji title, it seems very wrong to force that as the primary title on the page. Especially when you consider that this is an English language site, and no one other then translators can even read the kanji. There are plenty of other examples of this as well. And I have to ask, if this site is for those of us who love manga, why is it that the pages are not giving precedence to the name under which the manga was released? Why make it more difficult for people trying to find the manga?

I realize I am in the minority on this. It just bothers me, particularly when a manga I worked on is labeled like this.

Thanks again for your responses.

Last edited by Molenir at 6:59 pm, Apr 21 2011

Quick note (haven't read through the thread / don't have an opinion / etc.): There is some logistical issue with changing the names of manga with releases, or so I'm lead to believe. afaik Manick doesn't want me screwing around with manga titles, though it may just be me.

I'm not talking about the name of releases. I'm talking about the name at the top of the page manga page. What the manga is most commonly known as.

http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=1181

If you follow the link, you'll see the manga Pheromomania Syndrome. Its been released under this name ever since people started working on it. However at the top of the page, someone has gone and translated the kanji on the book and placed at the top of the page, Joshi Mousou Shoukougun. This is what I was speaking of. Changing the title at the top of the page, back to what it used to read, IE Pheromomania Syndrome. Not altering the names of what scanalators release under.

...................
You don't realize what you are talking about.

You are bringing up what a series should be called by what the releases are listed as. THerefore, you are talking about releases.



As for the title of the releases, I like using what the scanlators' use... simply for ease of use by users once on the scanlators' site. However, release mods and admins can list it as whatever they want, as long as it links back to the appropriate series page... and not an incorrect translation. So, I could change ALL of the releases from Pheromomania Syndrome to Joshi Mousou Shoukougun, Girl's Delusional Syndrome, or Woman Child Delusion Syndrome. Though, if I wanted to do the last one, I would have to add it to the associated names. It would not be an incorrect translation; in fact, it's the most accurate/literal translation.
Of course, this would be an act of douche baggery... still not wrong though, but you would not ask for a title change then.


Now, it is not difficult to find a manga under a name other than the main title.

It's very easy... use the search function.

If the user puts "Pheremomania" in the search field, the page will link users to the releases... as you say users know the series under this name. Ergo, Pheremomania would be used as the desired term for the desired results.

If users look for the series under ANY name besides what it was released as... and it's on the series page somewhere, all that is needed is to click one more button under "Other Site Sections".






tl;dr...
Let me condense it. The series information is not determined by the scanlators. It is determined by the series and the series alone (...even the summary is just a derivative of the series contents). If there is a mistake, we fix it. Otherwise, => alt title

Last edited by Toto at 9:59 pm, Apr 21 2011

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