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Post #509576 - Reply to (#509320) by ForteAtrox
Member

7:32 am, Nov 27 2011
Posts: 56


Quote from ForteAtrox
I guess the main problem is that majority of the fans just don't care about quality, just quantity.


Just because the majority of the fans does not care about quality does not mean there should not be no standards.

Quote
If Dragon & Fly scans were really made by MF and such, then it just depresses me (once again) to see that scanlations has become into something voluntary and for fans to making profits.


And knee jerking reactions will also achieve nothing.

*If* Dragon & Fly scans are being backed by MangaFox I ask what is the problem? I dont think anyone can claim moral high ground and dictate on how things should work, also I doubt that everyone is voluntary and not making a profit.

I also doubt we would even have this conversation in someone did not mention how much money was Noez was doing in the first place, in fact lets play a little game.

Alexa ranking of MangaStream:1,031
Alexa ranking of MangaFox: 921

Quote
Oh how much less anger and hate there would be if all scanlators could just have their own online readers...


When online readers started to show up there was a resistance against then, due to the popularity of then that resistance vanished.

I would say MangaFox and others pushed groups to accept the very existence of online readers but when there is a establishment of "how things are done" its hard to push forward, this is why many groups still have a IRC channel even when they are pretty much "Direct Downloads".

Do I like online readers?

Yes and no but pushing publishing to online reader only with no means of a backup is not a solution, without decentralization there is the risk of everything being lost, not to say when happens if my connection goes down?


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What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?
Post #509654 - Reply to (#509320) by ForteAtrox
Member

4:59 pm, Nov 27 2011
Posts: 198


Quote from ForteAtrox
I guess the main problem is that majority of the fans just don't care about quality, just quantity.
If Dragon & Fly scans were really made by MF and such, then it just depresses me (once again) to see that scanlations has become into something voluntary and for fans to making profits.
Oh how much less anger and hate there would be if all scanlators could just have their own online readers...


Honestly, making generalized assumptions doesn't help anyone.

If you've even looked at MangaFox for 10 seconds, D&F scans is basically a laughing stock on their own sponsor site because of how terrible their work is. If they're the only source, though, then of course users will take it, as they do for any other bad Scanlation (and let's not be biased here, D&F is hardly the worst group that ever existed in terms of quality).

The fans don't care about "quantity". They want a centralized, fast, easy to use resource. The same reason why YouTube, Steam, iTunes, etc. are all booming and popular. Unfortunately, the only sites that provide anything like that are ones at odds with the Scanlation groups.

Batoto is a nice start to Scanlators actually focusing on some kind of end service, but sadly it's being done for mostly self-centered reasons (wanting other Reader sites gone), rather than being user focused.

user avatar
Member

6:23 pm, Nov 27 2011
Posts: 243


@Darkron and wolfinthesheep

You guys aren't scanlators are you. LOL


As for the debate on quality, it stems from the fact that these new groups that are made up of these irritating mangafox fans. And they don't know how to do quality. Have you even seen these uzco groups popping up. Sure we should have standard, but that doesn't do any good when these fans are shown it doesn't matter. The older high quality groups are dieing and being replace by these n00bie groups.

Last edited by Chaoskitty at 6:28 pm, Nov 27 2011

Post #509659 - Reply to (#509654) by wolfinthesheep
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Pew pew
Member

6:23 pm, Nov 27 2011
Posts: 883


Quote from wolfinthesheep
Quote from ForteAtrox
I guess the main problem is that majority of the fans just don't care about quality, just quantity.
If Dragon & Fly scans were really made by MF and such, then it just depresses me (once again) to see that scanlations has become into something voluntary and for fans to making profits.
Oh how much less anger and hate there would be if all scanlators could just have their own online readers...


Honestly, making generalized assumptions doesn't help anyone.

If you've even looked at MangaFox for 10 seconds, D&F scans is basically a laughing stock on their own sponsor site because of how terrible their work is. If they're the only source, though, then of course users will take it, as they do for any other bad Scanlation (and let's not be biased here, D&F is hardly the worst group that ever existed in terms of quality).

The fans don't care about "quantity". They want a centralized, fast, easy to use resource. The same reason why YouTube, Steam, iTunes, etc. are all booming and popular. Unfortunately, the only sites that provide anything like that are ones at odds with the Scanlation groups.

Batoto is a nice start to Scanlators actually focusing on some kind of end service, but sadly it's being done for mostly self-centered reasons (wanting other Reader sites gone), rather than being user focused.



o_o.... What? I'm saying that fans will still read D&F scans stuff because they care more about having more chapters fast over good quality of work (D&F case, translations/grammar). I'm not talking about readers there.

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6:32 pm, Nov 27 2011
Posts: 243


And when did this ever turn into a debate about readers and quality, all the original poster wanted to know was if Dragonfly was part of Mangafox. (and they are)

Post #509665 - Reply to (#509576) by Drakron
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Pew pew
Member

6:39 pm, Nov 27 2011
Posts: 883


Alright here we go.

Quote from Drakron
Just because the majority of the fans does not care about quality does not mean there should not be no standards.

No duh~
If the scans are unreadable of course fans would be pissed.
When I say that I mean in a scanlators point of view of HQ. Most fans don't even understand HQ.

Quote
And knee jerking reactions will also achieve nothing.

*If* Dragon & Fly scans are being backed by MangaFox I ask what is the problem? I dont think anyone can claim moral high ground and dictate on how things should work, also I doubt that everyone is voluntary and not making a profit.

I also doubt we would even have this conversation in someone did not mention how much money was Noez was doing in the first place, in fact lets play a little game.

Alexa ranking of MangaStream:1,031
Alexa ranking of MangaFox: 921

I don't make profits off scanlations, I do it voluntarily. This is in MY opinion and what I feel about it because of how I work things with my group, I'm not indicating that all scanlators are nonprofit! I'm just comparing this to when long ago scanlations was done voluntarily and for fun by fans hiding in the IRC.

Quote
When online readers started to show up there was a resistance against then, due to the popularity of then that resistance vanished.

I would say MangaFox and others pushed groups to accept the very existence of online readers but when there is a establishment of "how things are done" its hard to push forward, this is why many groups still have a IRC channel even when they are pretty much "Direct Downloads".

Do I like online readers?

Yes and no but pushing publishing to online reader only with no means of a backup is not a solution, without decentralization there is the risk of everything being lost, not to say when happens if my connection goes down?

I don't think you're trying to argue with me here... I think you're just randomly tossing this into your post to answer all my little opinions. I don't care if you like online readers~
MF sure causes a lot of drama.

Post #509699 - Reply to (#509665) by ForteAtrox
Member

9:03 pm, Nov 27 2011
Posts: 56


Quote from Chaoskitty
As for the debate on quality, it stems from the fact that these new groups that are made up of these irritating mangafox fans. And they don't know how to do quality. Have you even seen these uzco groups popping up. Sure we should have standard, but that doesn't do any good when these fans are shown it doesn't matter. The older high quality groups are dieing and being replace by these n00bie groups.


Well before that we had MangaHelpers that allowed uploading of chapters and did risen to "one man groups" as scripts were (and are) easy available and so were raws as it also allowed the uploading and the linking of raws, I think it would be fair to say quality was a mixed bag.

I do not think its fair to blame MangaFox for the scanalator cycle were groups rise and die because it seems many of those groups are done by people in school and at one point they just stop, what comes after it always been somewhat of a mixed bag ... groups dying out and people vanishing are, unfortunately, common events.

(Also I am not involved with scanlation outside reading)

Quote from ForteAtrox
If the scans are unreadable of course fans would be pissed.


Yes but the question is how "unreadable", watermarks can make a release unreadable for some and readable to others.

Quote
When I say that I mean in a scanlators point of view of HQ. Most fans don't even understand HQ.


Well to start not many groups go back and release volume scans of their previous releases that used magazine scans, I know A-Team did it with Sekirei and Solaris-SVU does it with Umi no Misaki and /a/nonymous scanlations also does it with the releases I believe.

I dont think there is a standard of what is HQ, Scantily Clad only works with volume raws and /a/nonymous scanlations offers chapters in 2400p (that is way too big for me) even with Magazine scans as groups seem to follow their own idea of what is acceptable or not, that is fine with me even if I naturally prefer volume raws.

Quote
I don't make profits off scanlations, I do it voluntarily. This is in MY opinion and what I feel about it because of how I work things with my group, I'm not indicating that all scanlators are nonprofit! I'm just comparing this to when long ago scanlations was done voluntarily and for fun by fans hiding in the IRC.


And you are missing a bit of my point, if Dragon & Fly Scans are doing it for MangaFox and even if they are being paid for it, a release is still a release.

I know Pew Pew paid for translation scripts of Happy World! chapters because its was mentioned in their site, "over $150" and that was back in July 17, 2008.

I do not feel that right to single out a group because they are linked to a site and I happen to share your opinion, it should be nonprofit.

Quote
I don't think you're trying to argue with me here... I think you're just randomly tossing this into your post to answer all my little opinions. I don't care if you like online readers~
MF sure causes a lot of drama.


And I bring back the question of why Dragon & Fly Scans are being singled out.

Let me put this way, even if MangaFox followed on 1 week waiting period and put no watermarks but still ranked in the money due to their advertisement revenue people would still have a issue with it because they would be making money.

The problem people seem to have is not that Dragon & Fly Scans is a terrible bad group, is who is their sponsor happens to be.

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What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?
Post #509711 - Reply to (#509659) by ForteAtrox
Member

10:43 pm, Nov 27 2011
Posts: 198


Quote from ForteAtrox
o_o.... What? I'm saying that fans will still read D&F scans stuff because they care more about having more chapters fast over good quality of work (D&F case, translations/grammar). I'm not talking about readers there.

And I'm saying this is a terribly naive point of view, because D&F scans is hated by everyone because the quality is so bad, including the fans on MangaFox.

Post #509714
Member

11:20 pm, Nov 27 2011
Posts: 399


I don't think we have a right to complain. Not like they are being paid. You should just appreciate them for continuing manga other groups dropped. If you don't like their scans then just don't read them. If you have an issue with their scans say watermark too big then tell them directly. You don't need high quality scans to read manga. As long as the translation is accurate and scan is decent then it should be perfectly fine. I don't see why alot of people see Mangafox as an enemy. They did nothing wrong. Because of them there are more people who are aware and became fans of manga today.

Post #509717 - Reply to (#509714) by RS456
Member

12:04 am, Nov 28 2011
Posts: 17


Quote from RS456
I don't see why alot of people see Mangafox as an enemy. They did nothing wrong. Because of them there are more people who are aware and became fans of manga today.

Because they disregard the scanlators' hardwork? And they're actually earning money from it.
Wouldn't you hate it if you knit a sweater because knitting's your hobby and another person comes and sells it without giving credit to you at all?
Yes, I'm grateful we have more manga-aware people today because of MF but they can do that while respecting the scanlators too. Honestly, a 2 day delay isn't going to drive all the readers away.


Post #509725
Member

12:57 am, Nov 28 2011
Posts: 399


Technically they are not earning money off the manga. They are earning from the ads they are getting because of of all the visitors they are getting. They compiled several manga in one site so it is easier to access which they are providing freely for visitors to read. Which means they are not earning from manga if they were, they would be more like crunchyroll. They are also giving credit to the groups that scanlated and I don't think any group wants more than their group name displayed because if it so happens mangafox goes down then groups that displayed their info on mangafox will go along with it. Regarding the delay that should be upto the groups to decide. They should do what some groups are doing assigning a person to upload the manga and notify mangafox that only this person is allowed to upload their releases.

Last edited by RS456 at 2:28 am, Nov 28 2011

Post #509755 - Reply to (#509725) by RS456
user avatar
Member

8:25 am, Nov 28 2011
Posts: 797


Quote from RS456
Technically they are not earning money off the manga.


It amounts to the same thing.

Quote from RS456
They are also giving credit to the groups that scanlated


I don't know much about this but I wouldn't put it past MF to take out credits pages or other such techniques.

Quote from RS456
Regarding the delay that should be upto the groups to decide. They should do what some groups are doing assigning a person to upload the manga and notify mangafox that only this person is allowed to upload their releases.


MF has often completely ignored scanlator's wishes about delays and also continues to upload scanlations even when the group that scanlated them expressly wishes for them not to be uploaded on MF. The MF mods, who had some semblance of morals, have apparently been replaced by people who are only concerned for the money and they don't care about scanlator's wishes at all. The reason Dragon & Fly scans came about, I believe, was to scanlate manga that the original scanlator was kicking up a great fuss about because they didn't want it on MF (so, huge watermarks telling the reader not to use mangafox, that made the manga unreadable).

Quote from RS456
Because of them there are more people who are aware and became fans of manga today


The problem with MF is that their high-profile profiteering ways will attract, and are attracting, a great deal of attention from the people who own the copyright to the works being hosted there. MF and related sites are therefore drawing great legal scrutiny on scanlation, making it an even more legally dubious area, and perhaps contributing to the end of scanlation due to lawsuits and so on. So far we haven't seen much come of copyright holder's attempts to purge scanlation from the net but I think MF & associated sites are the main reason copyright holders are concerned about scanlation at all.

I don't know much on the matter though. If anyone knows more, feel free to correct me.


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Post #509760 - Reply to (#509714) by RS456
Member

8:53 am, Nov 28 2011
Posts: 12


Quote from RS456
I don't think we have a right to complain. Not like they are being paid. You should just appreciate them for continuing manga other groups dropped. If you don't like their scans then just don't read them. If you have an issue with their scans say watermark too big then tell them directly. You don't need high quality scans to read manga. As long as the translation is accurate and scan is decent then it should be perfectly fine. I don't see why alot of people see Mangafox as an enemy. They did nothing wrong. Because of them there are more people who are aware and became fans of manga today.


If you haven't noticed then this group tends to pick up a projects that has a group already scanlating it but it oh so happens that the projects are one of the most popular ones. Just to name a few - Fairy Tail, Vampire Knight, Dengeki Daisy. And for the ones that I named the chapters were coming out in a very solid pace, no delays. And then comes D&F scans with their crappy releases which sometimes seems like they're using some king of translation program not a real human.

So for me it isn't a big problem that they earn money, they can do it for all I care, but what makes me really angry is that they take all the popular projects, do their crappy releases and because of this the project may be dropped by the scanlation group who was doing it in a good quality.

I personally feel like they're spitting in scanlator's and readers faces.

Post #509764 - Reply to (#509711) by wolfinthesheep
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Member

9:35 am, Nov 28 2011
Posts: 243


Quote from wolfinthesheep
Quote from ForteAtrox
o_o.... What? I'm saying that fans will still read D&F scans stuff because they care more about having more chapters fast over good quality of work (D&F case, translations/grammar). I'm not talking about readers there.

And I'm saying this is a terribly naive point of view, because D&F scans is hated by everyone because the quality is so bad, including the fans on MangaFox.


Wrong. Don't make uneducated remarks when you don't have all the info. D&F stole a project from my group, uploaded it with abysmal quality. THEN when my group released the same chapter in HQ we didn't even get half the hits we normally do. (Now don't take this one sentence and pull that scanlators only care about hits out of it. That is not what I am saying, obviously) Sure fans are complaining, but doesn't mean they aren't reading it. You're the one with the naive point of view. Any scanlator will tell you that most fans will take speed over quality. Sadly, most fans do not have your mindset.


And that's the last comment I'm going to make on this idiotic conversation. Really people, do some research on what you are trying to debate. -__- There are already lots of threads about people complaining about mangafox, anywho. This is getting off topic and a mod is probably going to lock it soon.


Last edited by Chaoskitty at 9:40 am, Nov 28 2011

LT
Post #509782 - Reply to (#509764) by Chaoskitty
Member

11:08 am, Nov 28 2011
Posts: 22


[quote=Chaoskitty][quote=wolfinthesheep]
Quote from ForteAtrox
D&F stole a project from my group, uploaded it with abysmal quality.


roll eyes

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