wolfinthesheep's points are fair, even if self-serving.

But what needs to be taken into account is that the situation isn't static. We already see Mangafox's relative popularity decreasing (hence them taking all those desperate and underhanded measures). We see Batoto's popularity rising significantly. More importantly, we see migration of users from MF to Batoto.

This means that the very limited scanlator propaganda in favor of Batoto has been working. Even if leechers are ignorant, they can be educated about the situation. Achieving that through planting troll releases on MF and pro-Batoto messages in releases apparently works. Scanlators should keep it up and even redouble their efforts.

Also, Batoto is in fact superior to MF even from the reader perspective. What it loses in is the scope of the reader community. But once that community reaches the critical mass where it can rival Mangafox, the process will become self-sustaining as leechers will begin migrating to Batoto due to the word of mouth effect alone. Well, we'll see how it goes.

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Pretty sure the key point here is that there aren't actually anyway to prevent other people from stealing your work without giving you credit. The internet is just like that, if you can't handle that aspect then the best situation is to stop doing it so other people can't copy it. I know that might sound bad but its the truth, you will always find people copying works and not giving credit, and there aren't anyway to stop it. Unless you can sue them then I'm pretty sure they will keep doing it.

@wolfinthesheep, what a load of ...

How can be an opinion objective at all, ¿because it is yours?

How can you even compare Batoto and Mangafox? You harm scanlation when using Mangafox, you insult people that love manga enough to work for free, you betray your kind. This weird words of mine, are just a translation of my thoughts to a language which allows me to post them here without incurring in several forum regulations. Note that I didn't try to counter your arguments, so don't bother.

Just wait for FoolSilde to become what it is meant to become, then we shall dance in NOEZ grave.

All who whine about no respect for scanlators. Then all who pirate videogames/movies/music here should stop and pay for it all. Thats the same thing (respect for the creators). Because I'm pretty sure lots of people who cry here also pirate videogames/movies/music but never see that as a bad thing.

Last edited by Nisseman at 2:40 pm, Oct 17 2011

Oh so it will go like this: "Hey someone is DDoS'ing our site, it's an illegal site who earns money and distribute other people's work but hey they still DDoS'ing it. Do something about it please!"

Right?

Just tell me when you see anything wrong with this



Indeed, that's the reason I stopped my group. I wasn't earning money on their stuff but after finding out that people are doing it I stopped. I would like to invite everyone else to do the same. We should respect the producers for their stuff, and buy it.

/me totally agrees

Sad part is that you still aren't getting that we got someone earning money on it. Scanlators aren't earning money on it, mangafox is. This is the essence of the problem, fuck the respect for scanlators. (btw did you know that scanlators actually do a lot more than just rip the movies/music/videogames?)

So what should we do when this dude who owns mangafox opens lots of other crap? Specially something called OtakuShop selling counterfeit anime stuff?
The best thing about all this is that he got the money from the mangafox readers while doing nothing at all. In the meantime he went and found out how to run a "store" and now he can produce those counterfeit stuff to sell...YaY!

/me whines some more and then a little more

Last edited by lambchopsil at 12:49 am, Oct 18 2011

[quote=T1]

Want some whit that whine? :3

You can say no all you like but it's much easier for me. I would probably feel what the scanlation team would feel if I were in their shoes but at the end of the day I just want to read the manga that I like and I don't care where I get it as long as it's free.

For the record, yes I know it's selfish.

From the sound of things you are advertising this batoto website. However, who is to say that this website won't become like the others?

It's being advertised because it's collectively run by its scanlator contributors, or something along those lines. So, the idea would be that it fulfills the same purpose as a site like mangafox, but without enabling its less savory practices. The same thing can't really happen, even if it generates extraneous revenue.

Also, the "no" was essentially just stating that alternatives (like batoto) already provide all of those services. The point, though not eloquently stated, was that your argument was fundamentally fallacious and that your support of the site is by choice rather than by ease or necessity, except in the latter quoted case.

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NightSwan also said that she wanted to peg me, once, but I'm not sure whether to take that as a compliment or a threat...

You are right, you are selfish. That's why I'm telling the scanlation groups to be selfish too and just close

Btw you should be careful with the manga online readers, they collect information about you. So when they do that in means that they store you IP too meaning if someone came after them and they made a deal with the police then the police can harvest all the IPs and hunt you down. Funny what you learn after playing a little around with Twitter, Facebook and mining the social web

PS: Don't believe me? They came after people in Singapore by torrents and IPs, and sent people to jail if they didn't pay the bill D:

[quote=Nisseman]

Ooooohh I love cheese, living in Europe makes me able to taste lots of different types too, without having to pay a kingdom like in the US. <3

/me starts drooling instead

Still I dunno why they say that cheese and wine goes well with each other, never thought it did.

God, with my boyish, petite, fitness-nut and a crutch high head height, I'll be the most popular person there!





First of all, if not obvious with the lack of an avatar, signature and the abysmal number of posts I have done despite the 1 and a half year of being a registered user. I don't really keep up with the new trend that is going on with online manga at the moment. So I have never been to batoto website up until this moment.

Secondly, you are half right, It is my choice to go to those website that you so detest, because so far, I do not see anything wrong with it and I am familiar with it which makes my times to read manga more at ease. My primary choice of website to read manga was onemanga but since that terminated to be an online reader and basically became a defunct forum I went to my secondary choice which is mangareader.

Now, I am not saying that I won't switch to batoto which you people so enthusiastically promotes. I am just replying to a response to me that sounded like an insult directed at me. It may also have a little bit to do with the fact that it's 1:00 am GMT and I am in my bed bored out of my mind.


Last edited by lambchopsil at 12:50 am, Oct 18 2011

Let's all just solve this by hiring a hitman.

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Well to start a DDoS attack is still a criminal act.

Then when you mean "distribute other people's work" you are, of course, referring to the author and artist work.

So if they actually do something about, they will enforce the exact same policy across the board, meaning group sites that happen to be hosted on their servers will also be taken down and if one company starts doing that, who to say the rest will not follow suit.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too ... if its Illegal for MangaFox to host such material, its was also illegal for the groups to distribute it in the first place.



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What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?

except scanlations have existed since the early 2000's (or earlier) and companies haven't done much since they half regarded it as free advertising. it wasn't uncommon for a wildly popular scanlated manga to be licensed in the states a few months later. of course they've known about scanlations. right from day one.

however, scanlations have never directly profited from their scanlations. mangafox and co do. huge difference here. while the largest action taken against any scanlation group is a cease and desist letter, we now see large legal action threatened against aggregation sites because of the profit they're making from illegal scans.

should a bunch of people attack mangafox and the authorities are involved, sure, mangafox might get into some big trouble (although legal action has already been threatened against mangafox and they don't care at all), but the scanlators? maybe some nice C&D letters, at best.

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;D

Ripping games has not worked like that since forever.
And cracker groups make keygens, bypasses and complete revamps
of launchers for the games by reverse engineering the product.
Takes more time to do all that shit than to redraw or paste from the
translation script. Cracker groups also do stuff like pretend to be
game reviewers and fill in papers and do other procedures to get their hands
on the games earlier than they are released to the public.
No scanlation group goes to those lengths and never will.

All that aside, I don't really care if someone gets money from something
I am doing for free. Especially if I give something for free that was supposed
to be given for money. Divine retribution. Starting to do something and getting it
done is satisfactory for me. That alone will do. What people are going to use it for,
is beyond me and does not matter. If my goal was to do something that people can
read, if they read it, my job is done. While someone might benefit from it, it does
not hinder me by any means. Good for him or her to come up with usable means
that I did not come up with. They also have to do some work to make my creation
accessible in a manner that generates revenue for them. There's no reason to
make it a burden for myself. That's only a way to hurt oneself for no gain.

Personally, I don't really care about any of this. I always DL manga because sites
compress it and it bothers me like hell when I have to buffer images and
when they are sized like shit. Regardless, you should always look in the mirror
to say whether your point is valid or whether you are just ranting and flailing in
an emotional fervor. However, be it this case or any similar case, it is despicable
to have ill will for someone's success when it does not penalise you in any way.
It does not take any money away from you if you never aimed to make any money.
This makes it an argument based on a sentiment that you are being morally wronged.
In other words, not a reasonable argument to begin with, as it is based on
something that is not perceivable. If scanlations had Creative Commons
or Copyleft to them, things would be different, but as they don't, no.

Now, the question is,
is someone wronging you or are you just stuck in a selfharming paradigm.
If you did not take your chances to make a profit of something, you can't blame someone
for doing that, since you got what you wanted, which was to create something for no profit.
This means it is all inside your head. If you had never known, you wouldn't care and would
never realise anything. That why politicians don't tell anything directly, because hoi polloi
cannot handle knowledge.
It does not make you any better than the other person who conjures
up cash from thin air when he or she does not harm your wallet or progress in anything.

Last edited by Mamsmilk at 7:32 pm, Oct 17 2011

haven't laughed this much lately lmao

@Mamsmilk: actually, i don't really care if they upload our releases but they should at least have some respect to scanlator's policy. We have a simple policy for our releases: 24 hours before uploading them on their sites, and they just trashed it to a dumping ground. They don't just break one group's policy, they do it to every groups, they are worse than trash.

Last edited by Tran Linh at 7:57 pm, Oct 17 2011

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