You can't make a reasonable comparison between the length of a series like Harry Potter, and the length of a series like Bleach. Bleach isn't "drawn out" because of the time it takes to read it, it's drawn out because it is the same thing, over and over again, without pause. There is no pacing. Pacing is essential to make a story flow and continue to be interesting to a reader.

Bleach's arcs go like this: Fight -- fight -- fight -- defeat -- power-up -- fight -- fight --fight--win.
A well told story, like Harry Potter, involves too many plot facets to properly layout here without taking more time than I really want to spend. There's character development, side stories, etc etc... In the end, the fights take up about... 5% of each book.

It is simply impossible to keep any kind of movie, show, book, etc interesting, while only having action scenes. You burn out your audience. Even more--since Soul Society, we have not been given a reason to CARE about WHY Ichigo is fighting. Why do I care if he wins? Because he's the main character? Pffft. That's a shallow reason. For instance, take the Orihime rescue arc--he sets up the rescue (lets ignore the fact that he could have taken ten minutes to come up with a better plot,) and then barely, if ever, refers to Orihime afterward. There is no development between Orihime and Ichigo, Ichigo does not worry about Orihime, he just does what he does best--kills shit.

Kubo is a fantastic artist. He is a terrible storyteller. Maybe he got lucky with the first couple arcs. Maybe he actually took the time to plan out the story, and now he just frantically draws shit to make deadlines. Or maybe he just stopped caring about his story a while ago. Who knows. At this point, however, he needs to either A. Go draw Hentai, or B. Find a good author to pen the story for him to draw.

No, it definitely should not have ended have the soul society arc, but for me at least that was the best arc. Ichigo versus the world to save a girl who saved him with a couple of friends who let's face it really did not make much difference other than to draw off some of the enemy. As much as I like guys like Kenpachi, Byakuya, and Renji I liked them better when they were enemies and Ichigo had to go through them in bloody battles as he leveled up from a nobody to a captain class. there was a sense of impossibility with the mission during that arc, but after Ichigo went through it that same feeling just did not exist in succeeding arcs.

While what came after was still good, that arc to me was the best and I have not liked Bleach more since that arc, but this final Quincy arc has been really good so far.

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LOL op better than bleach is NOT A FACT

it's called "Opinion" and thanks for proving my point

You obviously skipped every single post since that reply you just quoted...

And your point was that Bleach is so pathetic that fans of another series can manage to whittle down its fandom through criticism? Nice way of showing your love for the series LOL



I wanna lock in A as my final answer.

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Why are you people even argue with Bleach no1 bullshit,
Just read his review of One Piece, the sad thing is that his review pointed out pretty much all the problems of Bleach. And I lol at the criticism of fart jokes, because Bleach employed the same tactic with big boobs. And the art lol, Kubo is a huge fan of drawing blank. And I was rofl at his criticism of One Piece formula, geez at least the whole arc (and I meant a quarter of One Piece starting with the arc where the straw hats get separate) didn't follow this formula. Kubo, lol, are not shy about his Bleach formula.

Even the latest Bleach arc is just .... I don't know... too inconsistent in the story. Well, Kenpachi is still a badass but >____< Bleach is the most overrated.

Thanks for bringing that up! Just read the aforementioned review.
That was a good LOL and a half

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To be clear, I love Kubo sensei. I hope after Bleach ended, he can continue on Zombie Powder.
I just don't like this troll who criticized one manga, while ignored the very same flaws of another manga. One he gave like a 1/10 (meh I'm too lazy to check), another he praised as number one. >____<

But then again, I supposed we must be nice to the last member of his dying species.

Aww now I understand . It's true just because a series is long doesn't mean it's bad. I agree with the comment below about champions not being made quick as well.

Earlier I browsed through threads of bleach topics and I really didn't see a lot of complaints I was trying to determine where the fans started to feel let down by bleach and according to what we've discussed so far it should have been somewhere after the ss arc, but well into the arrancar arc people were enjoying at least I didn't see a lot of criticism.



This brings me to believe that the way kubo sensei dealt with Aizen must be the main problem which simply highlighted all the other imperfections. After all even if a series is lacking if it ties up all the loose ends in the end then it is still a good read.




I Agree . At that time bleach was EPIC .

Ok about CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

Theres one thing that has bothered me since ss arc
If I remember correctly when ichigo and kenpachi fight and both injure themselves. Afterward kenpachi is seen at deaths door with his sword in his hand ( at this point we have already have been given knowledge about his past and we know that while fighting with ichigo his sword was screaming as if in pain) kenpachi asks his sword it's name for the very first time and it doesn't reply kenpachi says that It was too late ( sword trolled him) and blacks out.


I was always bothered by the fact he didn't try to ask its name again. What do you think is this an example of no character development if there's a similar thread like this please direct me to it thanks

Last edited by lambchopsil at 9:31 am, Aug 15 2012

Lol you're pretty bad at this dawg!

There's a reason why some 5 year old's kindergarten project isn't hanging on display in a museum. There's a reason why people would rather watch Avengers/TDKR over Wrath of the Titans/Battleship. There's a reason why Harry Potter and Twilight aren't held in the same regard.

Bleach being better than OP is an opinion in the same way that McDonald's burgers are better than In-N-Out's.

Can't believe i still got to do this-

if you read bleach and thought aizen was the END GAME you haven't been reading at all.
one piece is a quest for adventure you know the end game and your just watching the fun times on the way.

bleach is a great mystery centered around the white sepulcher of lies death deceit that is the soul society. at first the soul society was presented as an heaven of sorts an ichigo is a white knight of sorts except that his being there is the reason for the large amount of hollows and causing the powers if those around him to develop and/or accelerate (say what moral dilemma). then rukia gets captured and we are introduced to the dark side of the soul society, ichigo's monstrous strength, weakness, and potential for growth. then we are shocked at ichigo's loss and you watch as he struggles to gain back his strength (he also uses his head for once) you get to see some of his potential realized, however gone is the monster strength that would have cut renji to pieces if not for the interference however it is replaced with gt a skill which has great power but must be used sparingly(at first, remember gt is like a leech it stores up the reitsu then shoots it out as ichigo can spam it now because just a small part of his reitsu is more than equal to that of a captain) adaquate strength is received of to SS

you thought cuz you just powered up you were gonna walk in and kick ass wrong first get though gate stupid girl is stupid but it actually helped them. i can kick this big dude as by my self but captains are nice guys and gate guards guard the gate not open it. stupid irl can be useful you don't get reunited when you get reborn this heavens kinda fuck up like those people are starving.who is this stupid dude when we are trying to be serious omg icgho is still an idiot, learned who to fight but not how to control his reitsu shinigami killing people what is going in the soul society

i just went over some of the twist that changes surprises reveals that happened in bleach mind you i skipped most of the stuff and the foreshadowing and they aren't even inside the shingami quarters yet i've read one piece great story it may be but it doesn't have half the surprising twist and turns that bleach had in its begging arcs you want to get you have things like the quincy genocide which was completely uncalled for when the could have broken the spirit link. the prison where potentially dangerous people are kept the spirit king the imperialization of hucua mondo the events that happened 1000 years ago who gave the old man the right to found the academy how where positions decided before then oh yeah lets not forget hell lets not forget the potential joining of the worlds i could really go on an on about things that readers are anticipating in bleach that don't include new powers or weapons or fights.

the only thing you have in once peice is luffy meeting dragon, the world goverment revealed etc, one piece, i can think of a little more but your list is relatively short


tlr
to state the difference between bleach and one piece all i need to do is parapharse kempachi a battle is never over, even if you defeat someone the battle isn't over once you start fighting you keep fighting till one of you is destroyed in bleach it's never over there are always people that are going to come back up until they get destroyed grand fisher is a prime example (ishada is a next i hope).

one piece is about make memories on every island tying up all the loose ends you want to then moving on rinse and repeat don't forget to add new characters and shed a little light on the main plot

bleach is about being the camera man of the horror story that is ichigo's life, as he goes from trusting no one to realizing that nothing can be trusted


" If you save him you have to save all others like him"

The only 'great mystery' of Bleach, is why it has lasted even this long.

What? Just what? I didnt understand 1/5th of your post, its just nonsense, its just badly constructed, badly worded and some shallow opinion? Not sure since your post just doesnt make sense unless you truly try to waste time trying to understand it, and as several posters already said One Piece has a goal Bleach really doesnt, One Piece has a simple plot, Bleach maybe doesnt, im just not sure at this point, since it has followed a level up beat bad guy lose level up beat bad guy.

you don't, you did this, because you wanted to.

*sigh* why does it always come down to a OP vs. Bleach battle...?

well I'll start by saying, that am neither a fan of Bleach nor one of OP, and never was, still read both stories (until recently, so I don't know about the newest couple of chapters of development, sorry).


could we please just face it? OP is more popular. That doesn't mean it is a fact that it's better, it's just liked more by people than Bleach. Check the ratings, check the sales, well in fact it IS better, because that would be the common definiition without this subjective stuff...
And I won't accept any 'OP fans are Bleach haters' crappy excuses... (if you checked the '1' ratings, you'd even see that there is the same relative amount of haters for both...)

I'll skip the thing... seriously? horror?
I read quite a bit, and I always double-check before starting, so I don't have to put series on hold. I did with Bleach. Why?
I don't think the plot was especially bad, or the characters are lame (well character development, I guess this is enough after all those previous posts, but even that was okay enough). The art style was ok, as always, they get better after some time (years). Some said it was repetitive, well what isn't? Is it drawn out? Well yeah, I agree but I think OP isn't better. Bleach could have had a bit more plot complexity and text bubbles, well Kubo was lazy or had to meet some deadline, so that's not possible (or he just doesn't like bubbles), and OP, well they could be a lot closer to the treasure, well they aren't, and a certain someone gets his money from that, so I won't blame him. But honestly, I've read worse things that were drawn out, but still finished it.
No, it got tiresome.
What a good story needs are nice characters or a nice plot, that makes you wonder: 'what'll happen next?' and I really prefer both, but whatever...
I had this feeling when reading D.Gray-man, Claymore and (yes) Bleach until after SS arc and OP (at least until some point later).
well for the latter ones, it has disappeared, now it's only: 'ah something's happening... well, who cares...'
I'll still read it when it's finished, but now it would just be a waste of time. Forgettable characters appearing with a forgettable plot... no thanks, just another item moving to the completed list at some time in the future, deep buried in other forgettable series...


On a side note, was I the only one who thought that the first couple chapters - the whole thing in the human world - was awesome? Why couldn't he go back to that? I kinda wanted to see that more than this whole shounen'ish crap...

Last edited by Lorska at 1:01 pm, Aug 15 2012

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"Horror story that is Ichigo's life"

Ha the only thing horrific about Ichigo's life is how much paper is wasted printing him.

Bleach's mysteries aren't a result of complexities. They're the product of half-assed, spontaneous plot elements. If you want someone more eloquent and observant than I to explain just how small and poorly thought out the world of Bleach is, then here.

http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=29130&page=43 7&p=2167130&viewfull=1#post2167130

"Entire premise of Bleach, I declare you fundamentally, utterly, completely, irrevocably destroyed."

Bleach had a good start. A decent mix of comedy and action, with a bit of believability to boot. It's the reason it didn't get axed immediately, unlike tens of others of series. Also "shounenish crap"? That's what the beginning was. Everything after that isn't "shounenish crap." Everything after tthat was Bleach trying to be more adult and failing miserably.

The anime helped it ALLOT. It made the manga bearable when it came to waiting for something to happen. Or interesting fillers that made people catch a break from the super draggy manga plot.
Just hearing the word BANKAI from the characters or seeing some ecchi-seens was enough to win back a bunch of old Bleach fans back.


I believe it was from Bleach Episode 228. The ecchi-ness from the anime helped me stick with the manga. (with all those crappy fillers, there should have been more ecchi scenes.)

What made Bleach seem like a joke was the Locations. The fact that everything was limited to one town, and one soul society. The Vizard's home location was a walking distance for Ichigo. Urahara's shop was walking distance. The Excution arc where he walked to some secret bar. Every single one of these locations seemed to exist in Karakura Town since it was all walking distance. And I am not sure why no trains seemed to exist in this town.

Is there only one Soul Society? How about other countries? Do they have their own soul societies? Is Hueco Mundo the only home where Hollows return to? This series is too fake and flawed it makes me wonder why his editors never pointed this out to him to create a better climax for Bleach. There are so many ways Bleach can go to redeem itself, but instead we are stuck with some overdone Quincy arc. We've already dealt with Quincy drama when it came to vampires mistakenly created by Soul Reaper scientists.

My point is that when the Quincies start attacking humans in Karakura Town after they are done with Soul Society, then what would make them any different from Hollows? If this actually happens, then we should conclude that Kubo is too narrow-minded and a one-hit wonder. Lets face it, if Bleach's main character didn't have orange hair, didn't have a "huge sword" when he gained powers from Rukia, and wasn't comedy oriented (which it currently fails at) during the first 40-50 chapters, it wouldn't have been as popular.