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The Lolicon Shotacon Debate

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Post #534954

8:53 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 1

Removing anything from the site that provides no more than neutral information, not even about the content itself, but about manga publications themselves and their unofficial scanlations, feels wrong.
It's like we go to Wikipedia and say "hey, remove any article containing word 'sex' ó it helps spreading porn".
Do it now and next you'll have to remove catgirls manga for claim from greenpeace for animal abuse.

And it's not like you can't lift the ban in adsence. Personally, i've done it once, though it cost me lots of nerves and money for international calls.

Post #534955
user avatar

8:55 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 287

In all honesty, I have no interest in these two genres; however, this violates freedom of speech. You should do nothing and see what happens; the problem is what MIGHT happen in the future we can't predict.

"to the world you may be one person,
but to one person you may be the world."

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" (from Hamlet, Wm. Shakespeare; Act II, scene ii)

(Even though the quote above is from Hamlet, I first saw it in a Final Fantasy Versus XIII trailer on YouTube ^o^)
Post #534956

9:35 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 1

It is no longer just Loli/shota problem. When I saw that large sites as mangafox are removing all series with mature content I was shocked first, but then I thought that it is not so bad until I can find them using information I get here. If this site lose even inch of informations or dies, it will be painfull blow for all of us manga fans. So I am even willing to give donations, if it helps the site go on.

Post #534957

10:21 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 208

Why are some people adding the yaoi and yuri categories into this debate?! Even though I also believe in freedom of expression, I also do believe that shota/lolicon is a grey area when it comes to legality and these new child protection schemes that are being brought about right now. I wouldn't mind if shota/lolicon is banned, but banning (or considering banning) yaoi and yuri is going too far. That's just homphobia. Yaoi and yuri involves sex between consenting adults- liking or hating it is your opinion, but talking about banning it when MU is talking only about banning shota/lolicon? That's going a bit too far. Then you might as well ban every category in manga!

Post #534958 - Reply to (#534943) by Achiyugo
user avatar
Legend and Hero

10:40 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 80

Most definitely, we should hold our ground. Within reason of course. While heavily explicit stuff of this nature isn't good and I agree we should remove third party links to such material, we shouldn't be forced to remove all mention of it from existence. It's not only against our rights, but those of the respective authors/artists.

Post #534959
user avatar

11:14 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 147

I don't and will never understand what's wrong with loli-shota manga even if they r explicit.It's just drawing nothing of that is real even if some are crazy enough to think those manga r exciting what's wrong with that ? It don't hurt anyone.Google don't protect anyone by stopping site from posting lilicon content they just show how powerful they are i think that's the only goal in all that.

Post #534960
user avatar

11:23 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 147

I forgot to answer the question but i say leave it as it is or at best just take out link i don't agree at all with website that let google control them only because google bring them money for their site.If my boss where i'm working was trying to control me and make me go against my will i would probably quit that job and find another, isn't the same here in a way website is kind of a job and google is the boss who bring money.

a cat library
Post #534961 - Reply to (#534957) by Nirhtuc

11:29 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 6

Well I don't know why other people are mentioning it, but it could be that there was at least one case in which a person was charged with possessing child pornography because he had a lot of yaoi manga. The argument was basically that even though the characters were stated to be above the age of consent, because of the art style, they looked underage (probably just because they were bishounen or something). I don't know what the result was, but still, the fact that it even was brought up is ridiculous.

a cat library
Post #534962 - Reply to (#534959) by darkraiders

11:32 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 6

Well, Google appears to be doing it because they don't want to have their name associated with child porn. Whether or not loli/shota is actually child porn is irrelevant (though I don't believe it is) because all that matters is what the public would think.
Of course, even still, it does infringe on their terms of use (because it's "mature content"), so it probably shouldn't have been as much of a surprise as it apparently was.

Post #534963
user avatar

11:41 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 1

I absolutely agree with you. The site PROVIDES INFORMATION and you should continue to do so. Society was not too interested in this site when you all first begun, but now that you have a ton of followers itís all of a sudden a big deal. Most people who criticise really do not even really know about Manga or call them comics. So why adhere to some societal norms that has little or no interest in this little bit of the world. Manga is popular all over the world and since Japan seems to be a "civilized" country with written roots that go far beyond what western culture can even dream. As you opined, it's a drawing! And I completely agree! I am sure they have way less problems with child molesters than western civilization, especially the good old United States. I believe you all should continue PROVIDING INFORMATION as you all at MU have always done. To hell with all the newcomers who feel they even have the importance of speaking disrespectfully about the culture of Manga!
And thank you for sharing the information that you all gather. I have been a fan of the site since late 2006, but just recently became a member.

Post #534964
user avatar
bishounen lover

11:45 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 442

Lolicon and shotacon series range from extremely mild with no sexual content down to hentai. I think we should narrow any action to series which actually contain bannable/illegal content and series without such content should be left alone.

Post #534965
user avatar

11:46 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 35

Keep it like it is of course. Once you give in to one thing, they'll just keep asking you to remove things. Now it's loli / shota, the next thing it'll be every manga containing violence or sex and then we're only left with some slice of life and romance mangas.

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Post #534966 - Reply to (#534950) by za3bola

12:02 am, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 18

So are you proposing to ban entire genres on the chance that someone is going to LOOK AT a child in the wrong way?

Post #534967
user avatar

12:15 am, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 3

I think keeping the info up but removing links to said content is the best option. I don't see anything wrong with providing information. Whether someone is actively seeking out the loli/shota manga or want to check the info to make sure they avoid it, the info should be there. If providing links to pages with this content is going to be a legal problem, then don't link to it. I don't see them banning sites that give instructions on how to make at home bombs, commit suicide, pick locks, etc... Ultimately, everyone was a right to in the info whether they plan on viewing it or not.

Post #534968
user avatar

12:17 am, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 94

Looking at the 3 choices, the first doesn't sound too good for the future of MU, if the problem indeed arose from lolicon/shotacon reasons. Since the problem occurred, it can happen again, and maybe with even more severe consequences. The third choice would be breaking the tradition MU has stuck to for so long and for so well, of delivering information on comprehensive list of manga. Also, if this lead to banning of other mangas with violence and/or sexual content, the list will be even more smaller. The second choice seems like the best way to go, assuming this is the reason why Adsense banned MU in the first place.

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