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The Lolicon Shotacon Debate

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Post #535014 - Reply to (#535012) by za3bola
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11:14 am, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 20

You do realise that this would affect your precious Yaoi as well as there must be many characters who are minors dipicted in those stories. Sure they may not look as child like as some images in series, but they are still children due to there age so by your logic those must also be banned.

Post #535015 - Reply to (#534996) by za3bola

11:41 am, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 4

Using your previous example where you stated:

"Here is the thing, having violent thoughts about adults who are capable of making their own decisions, are one thing, having violent thoughts about poor defenseless children is another."

Now according to you, how defenceless is an adult of say average build (European) against someone who weighs 100 kg and has competed at international level in Judo. Who all of a sudden has flipped and become violent, as you previously said what you read you bring in to reality.

I would say the defenceless child risks being traumatised for life, yet that adult risks not having much of a life left.

So if I thought your logic was right I would be more up for baning violence in manga, after all it would seem to be more dangerous!

I do do however agree with you when you say,

"Look we could go on and on about this till we are blue in the face and still get no where. At the end of the day you are entitled to your opinion."

I just don't agree with your solution that is to impose your ideals on to that minority with a ban.

Post #535016 - Reply to (#535012) by za3bola

11:41 am, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 29

let me try and break it down to everyone here:

yuri/hentai/ecchi is targeted towards men who like having sex with women
Yaoi is targeted towards women who like to have sex with men
Bara is targeted towards men who like having sex with men

These groups are all natural, some people like their mangas hardcore while others enjoy it soft. And this is the beauty of doujinshi, sky is the limit with how graphic you want it or how unrealistic it is.

I am addicted to yaoi but I can guarantee you that I am not going to kill anyone the next day. I might flirt with a gay guy, heck I might even score one day and we night end up going back to my place. SO WHAT?

Now let's talk about shota/loli were little kiddies have sex. Who are the target audience? Adults that like having sex with children?-According to the western world that is the essential meaning of a pedophile. Can I flirt with little girls or boys? Can I take them home and have sex with them? If I do then I am committing a crime.

Most countries of the world ban it and I am not talking about the USA I am talking about "free" countries like Australia and NZ who have legalized prostitution, in Australia they have a gay parade every year, in NZ the prime minister gets egged pretty much every year by unhappy protesters.

I mean guys help me out here, why do people read shota/loli and shouldn't we be concerned?
Let's just put this freedom of expression issue to one side for a minute, where does the love for shota/loli come from? I don't get it??


Post #535017 - Reply to (#535014) by Konbanwa002007

11:46 am, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 29

I would actually be very happy if minors are removed from my yaoi. If you read my previous post you would know that I actually like my boys big and agro.


Post #535018 - Reply to (#535016) by za3bola
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12:07 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 20

Probably for the same reason that you read Yaoi, because they enjoy reading it.

Take the series REC for example, the character Onda Aka could be considered a loli type (she has a childlike body/appearance) but she is 20 years old. She would be considered an adult but many readers have called her a loli. Do you have a problem with this type of character?

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12:33 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 169

although i'm not a big fan of these genre, but we can't avoid or prohibit readers to read them right? it's just like porno videos, you can't avoid or porhibit people in reading them.
so i agree to some, that it's better just to remove the links to those sites that has access in reading or dl of those affected series. Just the links. since MU is not a downloading site, it is just a database site, like a wikipedia site.

oh, now that i mention it, would they also ban or tell wikipedia to remove their info about series that has these genre? hahahaha.. that makes Adsense et al stupid... if that will happen, why not tell other big sites: e.g., brittanica ency, etc, to remove those info that has these genre.

Ras tel ma scir magister Veniant Spiritus Aeriales Fulgurientes!! Cum Fulguratione Flet Tempestas Austrina, Jovis Tempestas Fulguriens!!!
Post #535020
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1:27 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 347

Well its fine because you can filter it, but maybee you should auto filter for those who doesn't have accounts(same with any other manga that might be offensive like hentai and yaoi) then there is no problem because only those who dont care or want that manga will see it

"Sanity is for the weak"
Post #535021

3:57 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 15

It would probably be a good idea to remove the links posted by anonymous scanlators. And probably the actual links to the groups that scanlate it. But, I don't see a problem with leaving the group's name there.

I personally, don't read it and have it filtered out on this site. What everyone else does isn't my business.

Post #535022 - Reply to (#535003) by za3bola

4:12 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 10

"Keep information om MU free of dangerously inappropriate material. Let people read what they choose to read but within reason."

THAT statement sums up what Stalin, McCarthy, the NAZI war propaganda campaign, the Tiannamen Square news censorship and Iraq WMDs with Bush was all about.

This site is about information distribution. NOT about limiting that information is it not? If you find this shota and loli unacceptable, when will the next line be drawn? Kids with guns (Battle Royale), Adults hitting children (Pretty much all of shounen), etc...

I don't care about the shota/loli genre staying or going, but as a previous message stated, it is there to allow us to filter away from it WHEN we need to. This is a site that INFORMS about genre so that people like you can avoid it. This is not a forum of your own personal expression so please do not indicate that.

THIS site is about allowing us to choose what WE, the viewer want to get information from. Not about what one person thinks we should. IF you cannot see that, then further confrontation with your view is pointless.

EG. I personally do not like Yaoi because the stories do NOT interest me. However, I am glad that genre choice is available because it allows me to select NEW titles to investigate that do.

So for that, I have always been glad of Baka Updates for the last decade.

Post #535023 - Reply to (#534883) by Scyfon

4:22 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 9

I don't have any interest in shota/loli, but I don't believe people that do have to suffer, I use the release filter and it works just great!. Banning drawn images is utter stupidity, and like people say reading or watching a violent film/book/manga doesn't make them criminals!.

Post #535024 - Reply to (#535016) by za3bola
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4:35 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 9026

Your post is kinda ignorant. :/

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Post #535025
user avatar

5:43 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 19

I find it quite laughable that google makes such a fuss about things like this. Nearly every illegal site out there has adsense ads on it, and many of the ads themselves are for illegal sites. Look around at some adsense ads on various sites (especially anime/manga related ones) and you will see countless ads for illegal download sites (many of which probably include loli/shota content). How they can sit around & complain about illegal and/or offensive content, while actively supporting similar content is beyond me.

Post #535026

6:25 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 3

Just as said before...Just go for a default filtering even for non-members. I really don't see why removing a manga genre would solve anything coming from a manga info site. This site should be complete and considering removing the genre is an insult to the many artist that brings us works that we enjoy.

Post #535027 - Reply to (#535016) by za3bola
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7:45 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 17

Okay, let me just make something very clear once and for all. Not all people who read shotacon have pedophilia tendencies. (Just like not all people who read yaoi have homosexual tendencies or even like real life gay porn.) I am going to go out on a limb here, but I'm willing to admit that I have read some stories categorized as shotacon, and I have loved them. (Note: I said some, NOT all.) As I listed before some of these were written by notable yaoi managakas such as Minami Haruka, Yamoto Nase, Naono Bohra, Yoshinaga Fumi, CJ Michalski, and Lily Hoshino. I am a 38 year old female, married for 18 years, have three sons that are ages 16 and 14, and am a regular volunteer with the local rape/abuse organization. I am not some sick pervert getting my jollies from looking at drawings of young males having relations with other young, or sometime older, males. I am a manga reader who is enjoying a story about two people feeling a connection. At times these stories involve young looking characters, but for me that is not an issue since the theme is..."A person loves whom a person loves, regardless of what is on the outside because it is the other person's soul that they are attracted to." (Sound familiar yaoi lovers?smile)

So I get it, you only like buff, manly characters. Fine, that is your preference, but don't say that just because some of us like our ukes cute, slender and hairless we will develop or have inclinations to want to have sex with children. Reading about something and wanting to do that thing yourself are two very different things. Please do not insult me further with your over-simplistic, incredibly naive view on what kind of people would possibly be interested in stories categorized in this genre. I find your inability to see beyond your own preferences, and personal connections to what you read, pathetic and immature. These are drawings, not real life. Please remember thatsmile

Post #535028 - Reply to (#535026) by jaxd_0

8:10 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 2

One thing you never mentioned: if the links or even if the series information is removed do you think/intend to try and get back into adsense or how much do you think it'll help with getting any other advertising support?

Also I think it's kinda disgusting that you can be removed from schemes like adsense without any particular explanation. Is a personalised email explaining exactly why too much to ask?

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