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The Lolicon Shotacon Debate

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Post #534879
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Member

12:48 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 3


I dont see what people have against any type of drawn sex, its not real and no people (or animals in some cases lol) are being hurt. Further more most of the time the characters dont even closely resemble humans. Personally i think normal written stories with these kind of content are worse.

Its not real so why censor it? We dont live in China or something like that, why do we have to censor something that doesnt hurt anyone and isnt real.

Post #534880 - Reply to (#534877) by unya
Member

12:52 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 22


Isn't it possible to put those loli-/shotacon manga under "members only" (i.e. with an accound here)? While adding filters so you can edit in your own profile that you want to filter out things (e.g. loli mangas) you don't like to see/find when you search for something here at the site after you have logged in in mangaupdates, something that anidb already does with their contents/infos about 18+ adult anime series. So without an account and not being logged in nobody can see the improper contents that they don't like to see.

Member

1:06 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 3


Actually, if you wait a little bit the situation may clear itself up. The recent supreme court case in the US probably signals that loli/shota can't be banned within the confines of the US unless it explicitly shows real humans in it (read the case on animal abuse in media). So yeah, google/adsense may be fined if they don't stop doing this soon.

But until then, I totally support a removal of such stuff. Not a big fan anyways, and its really not that big of a loss (how big is it, as a percentage of releases anyways? like less than 5%?)

Post #534882
Member

1:21 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 29


I am a huge believer of freedom of expression and I am quite happy to just move away from a manga that contains material I am not happy with and let those who appreciate it be, but should we really accept the existence of material with sexually explicit content on kids? When people are exposed to any sort of media for a prolonged period of time, it becomes accepted and part of the norm, so is it really worth risking having people walking around with sexual thoughts about children? Don't we all have a duty as part of the community to protect and preserve the innocence and purity of children? Why should anyone enjoy seeing children used in such a manner?
Not to mention that there are sexual predators who prey on young children and who are very likely using these mangas to fuel their obsession and may well even trigger it.
Z

Post #534883 - Reply to (#534829) by Toto
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Mome Basher
Member

1:24 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 3380


I second this.

OR

We can keep going as we are.
People can complain all they want, the release filter was made for a reason. It's not our fault they don't use it :\
If you really wanna remove the links, sure. As long as the scanslators are still credited for. Most of 'em don't provide the link here anyways :\

but yeah... leave it as it is, till there's no other options.

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2:04 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 1145


I think you should eliminate download links in general. You provide enough information already for a person to be able to download releases as is. Not to mention, a lot of scanlation groups prefer people downloading it from their site anyway. Which is understand since they put the time and effort into releasing it. I figure if you really want to read it, you'll be willing to put the effort into finding it. But, eh, that's just me.

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Post #534885 - Reply to (#534882) by za3bola
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2:13 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 4


Starting with the assumption that you are right. Next we should apply the same criteria to any manga which might contain violence. As you said

"When people are exposed to any sort of media for a prolonged period of time, it becomes accepted and part of the norm,"

we would defiantly not want anyone walking around with violent thoughts, would we? More importantly why would anyone enjoy violence in a manga?

We could go on censoring all kinds of genres because of those kinds of reasons. However if one is able to discern the different between a fictional world and reality then it should be ok.

I think it is fair to think that you're never going to stop people from doing things that aren't appropriate and censorship combined with repression doesn't help.

That said the previous comments with reference to an 18+ system similar to Anidb's could work well. Ok we all know that it is not going to stop people under the age of 18 who really wish to view the content as people lying about their age on the Internet is the norm.

However I strongly believe that as a site that provides information only censorship is a down fall of the sites raison d'ĂȘtre.

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Ultimate Seme
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2:20 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 25


I'm not a lolicon/shotacon fan, but I think we better to leave it as it is. This is an information site, not for dl or anything. If the dl links (whether to the site or to the filehost/torrent) for shotacon/lolicon are taken off, but keep the others, then it's not fair for the others, also there's a chance that other genre will be "a controversial topic" in the future. If you want to take those links off, take them all completely, and remove the option to add the link in the add release info.
Sides, this is a work of fiction. People should see it as it is, there's no guarantee or proofs that by reading a shotacon/lolicon manga, people will get affected and turned to a bunch of pedophiles. Also, there are lots of title that have loli/shota faced adult character.
For those of you who don't care, please think if it's your favorite genre, whether it's shoujo/josei/seinen/yaoi/yuri/etc else.

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Member

2:21 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 343


I'm not a loli/shotacon fan myself, but I do like the fact that I can filter it out from searches and releases. If the genres & titles were removed from the database, what's to say they wouldn't be added back except under different genres? Then I wouldn't be able to filter them out anymore =\

Also, I'm sure there are some titles mislabeled as shota/lolicon that aren't.

Though if this is what is causing the funding issue, then I'm not sure what's best to do.

Post #534888
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Romashk
Member

2:45 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 27


I think censoring is more apropriate. Loli-Hentai manga is a problem and the less popular it gets, the better, Regular manga sould stay, but be limitted to 18+ or smthn.
This is an information site. And cutting out a chunk of information isn't right. imho

Member

2:47 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 2


I just wanted to point out that since this debate began, it seems to me that the scanlators have been aware of the controversy and are reducing the number or completely stopping scanning shota/lolicon titles. I certainly hope that we are not pressed into losing an entire genre of storytelling, even if I do not often care for its depictions, but perhaps because of the attention right now a lot of the problem will solve itself. I know that in the US we have enough trouble not having our oversea's purchases examined and if the media is making this a concern, I think that the buying of the genres will decrease dramatically. The point I am making is that the scanners themselves are reducing or excluding these titles so as not to either become prosecuted or to draw unwanted attention to their sites. Perhaps this will remove the pressure of deciding to no longer support shota/lolicon. If the scanners themselves do not feel able to continue in translating the works all of the drawings might eventually be removed from their websites anyway. I do feel that the information should be kept on the website, maybe without the jpgs if it makes everyone so uncomfortable. Still, this is art and storytelling even if it makes people uncomfortable and there is no reason to deny the information being there if it lacks the offending photos. But that is just my opinion. Please keep up the good work and hang in there.

Post #534890 - Reply to (#534884) by jinx_you
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Bwaaah!
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2:47 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 838


The only thing about this train of thought is that it lowers the convenience of MU which would likely impact the number of visitors to MU as a one stop shop for info. It probably isn't a deal breaker since most people come here because it is the best updated info site more than to find instantly accessible links but then again, I wouldn't know how such a decision would affect traffic at MU. For all I know it could lead to a mass exodus to DDL and hosting sites which likely already has put a drain on the potential population here.

Post #534891 - Reply to (#534883) by Scyfon
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 Member

2:51 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 62


like many I others I dont think you should remove too much information but removing the covers would be maybe a sign of goodwill. I dont have a problem with censorship, my problem is that it is hard to stop it after a curtain point. hentai-shota/loli, rape on children... isnt something that should be easily excepted but a simple kiss in BL or shojo isnt really extraordinary, is it?

To make it shot, it would be simply a shame to loose whole genre, popular series, information because the censorship is too strict.

Member

2:52 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 1


Just a suggestion, Why not make the links members only? or Lolicon/Shotacon members only? or both? Or a check box in your profile to toggle Lolicon/Shotacon on and off. Lots of sites have a mature content option.

Post #534893
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Member

2:56 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 8


i must admit that as i am getting older, i have been drawing back from reading manga. especially yaoi. and i never liked shota/loli. it grosses me the hell out and i was never able to wrap my head around those that called it cute or whatever. its why i pretty much left aarin. that said, i honestly cannot bring myself to tell other people they are wrong for liking fictional things like that, when i like to read stories about people getting killed and beating the crap out of each other.

now, my thought on this is that all links be removed but the information be left up there and we still have the option to filter those titles out on the release page. i cant say how much shota/loli is here as i use the filter option, so i don't know how much work that would be :/

but most importantly i still would like to be able to search for a title and be able to see if it is shota/loli so i can avoid it.

at this point only new comers would be unaware of where to find things and if they (the shota/loli crowd) really feel left out they can make their own database to find releases with links. not to mention the blogs, lj coms, and forums that are already dedicated to it i'm assuming, since there are such things for other genres.

keeping the information, yet removing the links seems like the best compromise to me. people can still be informed, they just have to not be so lazy and copy,paste,search for the actual website.

my question is, for sites that release various genres would they also be in line to have their website links removed?

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