i've been lurking for two years and made an account yesterday onle

but that's another issue - a lot of people don't register or log in all the time and can't actually stop from accidentally clicking a lolishot manga. so at least a single letter or 2 letters for different genres would be helpful - like /y/ for yaoi or /u/ for yuri - like 4chan does.

yes

I hate to say it, but someone's ALWAYS got a beef with something. With all of the anti-gay junk out there, it would not surprise me in the least if the "conservatives" go after yaoi/yuri next. Gay pr0n? Perish the thought!
As for the shota/loli debate, I like shota. I LOATHE child pornography, but shota isn't kiddie porn. It's drawings. Period. They wanna arrest me for my shota collection, then I'd like them to show me the actual children that were exploited. Instead of wasting time, energy, and money chasing shota/loli MANGA, they should be out there helping REAL children being exploited/abused. This is nothing more than bureaucrats trying to look like they're doing something.

because they are not real children? heh.

protect the children is valid - but shouldn't it be valid only when the children are real? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_the_children_%28politics %29

then again, you don't need lolishot for children to get abused in the real world - when it's not sex, it's other physical abuse like beatings or psychological abuse like constant scolding or berating the children. Adults have responsibilities. When you censor something, you take away that responsibility so they can blame external things.

and if you want to talk about desensitizing from things that could harm children - take a look around - it's a crazy sexed up world where children emulate scantily clad popstars, where teens have eating disorders to stay thin, where teens are pressured to have sex in order to protect their relationships, where real predators roam after women and children and where 3 year olds wear spagetti straps and bikinis on beaches because parents let them.

If you ban one thing, you have to ban everything eventually - but it's unfortunate that cartoon pr0n is being banned when the real life thing is so prevalent.

let me just clarify one thing: the hypothetical scenario I gave you was PG but can range from looking to flirting to touching and even sex.

Don't under estimate the power of the mind, in a way having genres like these are a form of brain washing.

My point exactly. Safer to cover yourself than rely on the public's 'common' sense. For the most part, people don't need a warning. They'd know it all already. But it's just a safer way of doing things that might keep one's head above water if things do come down to the crunch. If a warning label is there, the responsibility is on the reader, not the site.

Well personally I like having the loli/shota genres there so I can filter them out of my searches. I like what others have been suggesting about removing the DDL links though.

ohoho are you trolling?

... or are you really being serious? i'd be very worried if you were - fiction and reality are two different things. to imply that these genres cause real life damage is not correct imo.

People mention those topics and hentai because they are seen as vulnerable points that could also be used as justification to attack MU. Banning just loli/shota or even all adult content will do nothing to stop the attacks. All it would do is encourage other nutjobs to go after MU for other things that offends them. I'm personally disgusted by Yaoi but I'd defend MU's right to post info on it come hell or highwater. However, that won't stop some other moron from looking for an excuse to kill it. One story about a pair of sixteen year old boys reenacting Brokeback Mountain and you can easily have alarmists crying pedophilia and yaoi in the same sentence.

Any site hosting adult information with a large following of young people will invariably come under fire; especially if arguments could be made that the site serves pirates as many license companies sees scanlators as. MU's only real defense is to remain the best center of scanlation information; something it cannot do if it starts banning genres when some moron wants to raise a stink.

You make very valid points and the scenarious you point out are already frowned upon by any parent in their right minds or any self respecting individual, but at the end of the day each parent is responisble for the welfare of their own kids. But should we really be encouraging those sorts of behaviors by saying it's ok for shota and loli to exist?

People love reading manga, it is fun and enjoyable, do you really want to associate kidy porn with something as mainstream as that? Why should we add to the stress of parents by allowing more people with that kind of mindset to exist? It takes a nation to raise a child, do you really want a nation that is ok with children having sex??

Z





Regardless of whether they are real children or not doesn't change the fact that the concept is there: children having sex.

Z

That makes you naive

"The second choice seems like the best way to go"

So you understand, if you remove a link to the site because ONE series that group did was labeled lolicon/shotacon its WILL affect ALL series that the group did.

That is not "the best way to go" as you are basically saying to groups "dont work on these type of series or we no longer provide links to you", I would not exactly call it blackmail but its certainly a type of pressure and as the rule that this site had to links have been download links to licensed material.

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What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?

unfortunately in the world we live in, it is easy to confuse reality with fiction, heck how do you think half the things we have now were invented. Flying for example how many people have "dreamt" of it and even attempted it (some have even died) a few centuries back and now it has become reality.

Think about it long enough and it becomes real for some. wouldn't that be disturbing to know that this could be the situation with shota/loli for some people?

Z

No just no just no.
It is an information site and there is no reason to change anything.
If you want my full view go to both those threads and you will no why.
Because Child porn is anything under 18 and I refuse to have 80% of my manga list eventually removed.
If it isn't one thing it's another.
So, no.

________________

i'm not saying kiddie pr0n is ok - but where will they stop? first it's lolishot - then it's onto anything with sex - then anything remotely ecchi or mild. like i've said - it's a slippery slope and not a good one. All the world over, people who don't read manga already associate it with loli and tentacles. the more scrutiny it gets, everything will eventually go under the chopping block so to speak. I'd love to point out a neil gaiman article that everyone should read on this - http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedo m-of-icky-speech.html

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In this case you obviously have read lolicon, and I haven't. I don't know whether you're writing from personal experience here, and whether you have personally been incited to rape children or give inappropriate hugs by reading it. (I assume you haven't. I assume that Chris Handley, with his huge manga collection, wasn't either. I've read books that claimed that exposure to porn causes rape, but have seen no statistical evidence that porn causes rape -- and indeed have seen claims that the declining number of US rapes may be due to the wider availability of porn. Honestly, I think it's a red herring in First Amendment matters, and I'll leave it for other people to argue about.) Still, you seem to want lolicon banned, and people prosecuted for owning it, and I don't. You ask, What makes it worth defending? and the only answer I can give is this: Freedom to write, freedom to read, freedom to own material that you believe is worth defending means you're going to have to stand up for stuff you don't believe is worth defending, even stuff you find actively distasteful, because laws are big blunt instruments that do not differentiate between what you like and what you don't, because prosecutors are humans and bear grudges and fight for re-election, because one person's obscenity is another person's art.

Because if you don't stand up for the stuff you don't like, when they come for the stuff you do like, you've already lost.

The CBLDF will defend your First Amendment right as an adult to make lines on paper, to draw, to write, to sell, to publish, and now, to own comics. And that's what makes the kind of work you don't like, or don't read, or work that you do not feel has artistic worth or redeeming features worth defending. It's because the same laws cover the stuff you like and the stuff you find icky, wherever your icky line happens to be: the law is a big blunt instrument that makes no fine distinctions, and because you only realise how wonderful absolute freedom of speech is the day you lose it.

(And let it be understood that I think that child pornography, and the exploitation of actual children for porn or for sex is utterly wrong and bad, because actual children are being directly harmed. And also that I think that prosecuting as "child pornographers" a 16 and 17 year old who were legally able to have sex, because they took a sexual photograph of themselves and emailed it to themselves is utterly, insanely wrong, and a nice example of the law as blunt instrument.)






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