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New Poll - Scanlation Watermarks

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Post #539336
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Member

7:48 am, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 50


The horse is high when you're sitting on it, no matter which side of the fence you're on. Watermarks are a control mechanism for a lot of groups, regardless if things get uploaded to awful online readers. It's amusing hubris to think that, once something leaves your hands, you can control distribution. Seriously, if you could control things once distributed, record companies, manga companies, hell even book publishers wouldn't have been rampaging for YEARS to try and stop it. Even MegaUpload, Fileserve and all its buddies, and upload.to going down in flames hasn't stopped distro of anything. Bittorrent and IRC still keep pirating alive and well.

SO, why do scalators try so hard to control things?

*sigh* I mean, isn't it exhausting to do that for every release, all the time? And to blow gaskets and threaten to decamp because someone (random leecher) broke ranks and posted it on mangafox or where ever? (I find this extremely childish.)

I don't get this endless effort to stamp everything. It feels like third graders putting their names on everything so their little sister doesn't get it or something. It feels like stress and effort that I could put into real issues in my real life, rather than flipping out because the Internet crowd fails to obey me. Hell, if it's about obeisance, just being a scanlator is the first step into that crack of hypocritical hell. Who are we obeying by taking other's works and reworking it, then getting indignant at others for doing the same? We don't obey the law, who are we to get angry at others for not listening? Because it's OUR law, and not some faceless company's?

Well, I really don't care either way. I don't read works by groups I find really watermarks really annoying on. There are hundreds and hundreds of titles out in the world WITHOUT the watermark, and I can live quite well without those titles. If I REALLY need to read something, screw it. I'll buy the book.

Seriously, to quote Serenity, "You can't stop the signal." If you really don't want it floating on the Internet waves, don't ever let it leave your hands. That's the best control mechanism ever.

Post #539337 - Reply to (#539336) by ZL11
Member

9:26 am, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 61


Watermarks become used quite often because of all the commotion before caused by the actions of people in the community in the past (Tazmo and others for example).

And I fully endorse following the groups rules. If someone if they just don't want it posted by others....or want that timeframe then fine. If someone really has a problem following those rules by the group......then don't read their release.....read from another group.

It's not hypocritical. And following their rules is a simple sign of respect for the group who has taken the time and effort to scanlate it.

Post #539338 - Reply to (#539325) by auriga
Member

3:59 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 170


Um ok? Then you basically want us to go back to the early-internet days when no one shared mangas because it was obviously unethical to share Japanese manga with Japanese-fluent readers and there wasn't the excuse of "we're translating it into English to broaden the audience!".

If you know Japanese, why are you downloading them/reading them online in the first place? BUY THE MANGA YOU PIRATE!

Post #539339
Member

4:15 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 83


People here seem to be very confused about something. Scanlators do not watermark manga to claim that it is their property. They are watermarking manga to show that it is a free scanlation because aggregators are taking that manga and claiming it is their property. Mangafox watermarks all manga like it owns them, but I don't see anyone hating on mangafox's watermarks. Leechers are just hating on scanlators who decide to put a mark that "hey, no, aggregators like Mangafox" did not translate this manga and do not own this manga. Sadly, this concept seems to escape many, and they demonize the scanlators that are actually bringing them the product and worshiping aggregators that don't really do anything else take other people's work and claim it as their own.

Yeah, guys, you're all giving us manga/anime fans such a stellar reputation. Keep up the good work.

Besides, many watermarks are quite nicely designed and you can tell thought went into it. I'd be happy to see large watermarks on all the free manga on the internet.

Post #539340 - Reply to (#539337) by RiK.dfs
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Member

4:34 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 4


"And following their rules is a simple sign of respect for the group who has taken the time and effort to scanlate it." Yeah, you are right is the same sign of respect that scanlators do to the mangaka, you know they take their hard work drawing and writing a story, then some random kid in the other side of the world, scan, clean and translate said work and then to show how much respect he have for the mangaka and his work, the kid put a nice watermark with his name all over the mangaka work because is not enough that he stole their work. That's the bigger sign of respect the kid can show, what a nice kid ¬.¬.

Post #539341 - Reply to (#539265) by sarablack10
Member

5:20 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 1


I agree, although I don't like watermarks, I understand why some scanlators put them (nobody likes seeing someone else claiming their work), but putting watermark on a characters face (I mean, MAIN characters face), or even across whole page (Doko Demo Doa, I'm looking at you!), and even over text boxes (why translate if you gonna hide text?) is... confusing...
As I said, I understand why use watermarks, but just pasting them on page without looking what will end "under them" is like what online readers do...

Post #539342 - Reply to (#539340) by evilhime
Member

6:19 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 61


You fail to see the point of what a watermark in scanlation IS.

It's NOT a sign of property ownership. It's more like the employee ID number on a sales receipt.
THAT is what watermarks in scanlation mean.

Post #539343 - Reply to (#539339) by naikan
Member

6:21 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 61


You must be a friggin genius (no sarcasm here). This is exactly what many people are trying to express (but being ignored by stubborn people who if you read their posts you can't understand WHY they are at this forum and reading manga online to begin with....).

Post #539344
Member

8:42 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 133


I personally don't mind watermarks, unless they start obstructing the translated text itself.

But I really don't get it people. Why the hell are you arguing over whether or not the manga should be watermarked?

Mangafox is in no position to watermark anything, that's for sure. But the scanlators? If they want to watermark something to show that the scanlation is free/that it is translated by them, go ahead.

To those few sitting on their pedestrals commenting about how scanlations should not be obstructed by watermarks, regardless or how big or small they are, seeing as it is meant to be read. NEWSFLASH PEOPLE, the scanlators are under no obligation to translate for you. Most of them do it as a hobby. They have their own lives out of the internet as well, you know?

They can just as easily wipe their hands off the whole thing and say, "Mangafox is making money out of something that I spent so much time on? Screw this." Then pack their bag, walk off, close their website and break up the team. And we would be up a shit creek without a paddle.

Please keep this in mind when you think you have the rights to criticise/dictate how some teams does their scanlations.

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Post #539345 - Reply to (#539338) by imercenary
Member

8:59 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 317


Um... Comprehension skills FAIL. You're putting words into my mouth; goes to show how much you actually understand what I'm trying to say.

Post #539346 - Reply to (#539345) by auriga
Member

9:29 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 170


No, you fail to realize what telling everyone "just learn nihonggo" would actually mean for the scanlation community.

If everyone knew nihonggo, there would be absolutely no justification for scanlated manga.

Go ahead, justify to me why ANYONE would scanlate manga if everyone knew Japanese.

Post #539347 - Reply to (#539344) by 0oKat~0
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Member

10:34 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 64


The dependence argument implies the existence of at least two factions, the ones being depended upon and the ones who depend of.

Don't keep marking the line between scanlators and readers, it really doesn't exist.

A reminder to all of you, we are all equal, we have opinions of our own and the same rights, as everybody, to impose them on everyone's work.

We're supposed to share a common interest, to protect the non-profit integrity of the work we all enjoy, aggregators ignore such integrity, so they must be dealt with.

Not everybody's going to agree with our ideal, yet they have the right to say that, like we do.

I like the "shit creek without a paddle" analogy you brought up, since it can also describe how we'll have to get our hands dirty and in coordination to row to the end of the creek.

Watermarks? You have to be reasonable in how you advertise. They don't seem to do their intended job: raising *positive* awareness towards "scanlators". How about trying something different? Like a "support the scanlator" thread in an aggregator's forum, (WITHOUT discrediting the aggregator itself, you have to know how to play ball intelligently). Any other ideas?

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Post #539348 - Reply to (#539346) by imercenary
Member

11:15 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 317


*sigh* I thought I already mentioned that scanlation is just supposed to be a stopgap? Someone really needs to learn how to read.

Post #539349 - Reply to (#539348) by auriga
Member

12:34 am, Feb 14 2012
Posts: 170


A stopgap for what? For people to learn nihonggo? Have you even thought this through? Anyone who gets into the scene early learns nihonggo and obtains their manga legitimately, scanlators stop scanlating because demand dries up and anyone else who comes afterwards is shit outta luck.

Congrats, you've solved nothing. Hardcore fans like you tell the newbie, non-nihonggo newcomers to "LEARN NIHONGGO!" while the more sympathetic fan resume scanlation efforts restarting the whole argument again.

Unless you want to believe that manga companies will one day localize all manga, in a timely manner, you're not solving anything.

Post #539350 - Reply to (#539348) by auriga
Member

2:08 am, Feb 14 2012
Posts: 1


This isn't a post full of rage, but why the heck are you guys spelling 日本語 as "nihonggo" instead of "nihongo"?

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