If you went through some ethical evaluation based on theories. If we are assuming that manga is from japan (with japanese lang) and scanlators make scanlation for readers outside of japan (with english lang) without any formal published on english lang than most likely it is still ethical. Couple of ethics theories such as kantianism, utilitarianism will see that actually it is not wrong, it is still ethical.
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New Poll - Scanlation Ethics
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Member
7:02 pm, Sep 14 2012
Posts: 20
7:02 pm, Sep 14 2012
Posts: 20
Member
11:54 pm, Sep 16 2012
Posts: 65
11:54 pm, Sep 16 2012
Posts: 65
Or DRM-free digital releases. I don't really get the Japanese publishers in that matter, if they themselves published their materials online in english in a format readable on computers and e-readers at an affordable price they'd own the global market. Then when something becomes a huge success in english online they could do a paper release. Seriously, fans would eventranslate for free (or for credits to buy more manga). The reasoning gatekeepers use eludes me...
Member9:57 pm, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 13
this comment, i totally agree.
======================================================
i think it's NOT morally or ethically wrong to scanlate.
as long as the main purpose for scanlators to do it,
is to SHARE it to public...and not to profit from it.
ALSO, because certain manga is mostly not popularly-known
AND of course, not yet PUBLISHED to any language aside from its origin.
it really helps a lot to help certain unknown/new manga
to get known by larger number of readers
it determines if it can get viewers/buyers enough
for english publishers to take these titles or not.
======================================================
i think it's NOT morally or ethically wrong to scanlate.
as long as the main purpose for scanlators to do it,
is to SHARE it to public...and not to profit from it.
ALSO, because certain manga is mostly not popularly-known
AND of course, not yet PUBLISHED to any language aside from its origin.
it really helps a lot to help certain unknown/new manga
to get known by larger number of readers
it determines if it can get viewers/buyers enough
for english publishers to take these titles or not.
Official Pooh Bear
Member
10:49 am, Sep 20 2012
Posts: 33
Realistically, I expect fairly soon the market will begin changing more as well...
Think embedded ads and product placement - It already happens to a small degree (think Pizza-Hut with Code Geass) but I think the trend will begin to expand and accelerate as well.
As an example, AK49 is based off a real idol band, and references many of the songs, idols, and albums. But that's not what I'm referring to here. It's extremely simple to embed html links in pdf and epub documents, so within a few years I don't think it will be terribly uncommon to have image tags that link to particular characters, songs, albums, or artists.
Example: A click on Takamina could bring up her wikipedia page, but even more likely AK48's real webpage or her blog or something similar.
A click on a panel where they are doing a performance
Clicking on a panel showing them doing a performance could also have the same effects...
Example: This page could have a link -
http://mangafox.me/manga/akb49_renai_kinshi_jourei/v02/c009 /5.html
To something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEpvji2C1N0
(And on the linked page, there would be somewhere a reference on how to purchase related goods).
Keep in mind, this wouldn't take place overnight - and I sincerely doubt all products would incorporate this type of embedded advertising (I have trouble believing many of the mangas where characters drink / are addicted to urine would lend themselves to this type of advertising would work well).
But it is something to keep in mind.
Think embedded ads and product placement - It already happens to a small degree (think Pizza-Hut with Code Geass) but I think the trend will begin to expand and accelerate as well.
As an example, AK49 is based off a real idol band, and references many of the songs, idols, and albums. But that's not what I'm referring to here. It's extremely simple to embed html links in pdf and epub documents, so within a few years I don't think it will be terribly uncommon to have image tags that link to particular characters, songs, albums, or artists.
Example: A click on Takamina could bring up her wikipedia page, but even more likely AK48's real webpage or her blog or something similar.
A click on a panel where they are doing a performance
Clicking on a panel showing them doing a performance could also have the same effects...
Example: This page could have a link -
http://mangafox.me/manga/akb49_renai_kinshi_jourei/v02/c009 /5.html
To something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEpvji2C1N0
(And on the linked page, there would be somewhere a reference on how to purchase related goods).
Keep in mind, this wouldn't take place overnight - and I sincerely doubt all products would incorporate this type of embedded advertising (I have trouble believing many of the mangas where characters drink / are addicted to urine would lend themselves to this type of advertising would work well).
But it is something to keep in mind.
Member
5:18 pm, Sep 21 2012
Posts: 82
Wait, wait, monks also copied the great heroic, political and philosophical texts of Greece and Rome. Without them darn plagiarizing monks we wouldn't have "The Illiad", "The Odyssey", and many great ancient historical and adventure treatises as well as later works. Maybe some future generation a few hundred years from now will be thrilled to discover that these present day highly fragile paper books and magazines have been saved in an indestructible digital format...
Last edited by nowyat at 6:30 pm, Sep 21 2012
Last edited by nowyat at 6:30 pm, Sep 21 2012
Member
6:01 pm, Sep 21 2012
Posts: 26
It's wrong if it's possible and likely to be licensed in english
It's not wrong if you know it's never going to be licensed
This is of course assuming that publishers/authors merely want wide circulation of their books + desire profit in cases possible
It's not wrong if you know it's never going to be licensed
This is of course assuming that publishers/authors merely want wide circulation of their books + desire profit in cases possible
rawr
Member
8:45 pm, Sep 23 2012
Posts: 161
Well, since you asked, though late, I suppose a response is in order. (I don't really check MU news...)
To the question at the end: you draw a line in a different place than I do. You draw the line of what's acceptable vs unacceptable where exchange of money takes place. I draw the line at respect. I believe in a system where one can respect another. Regardless of any english publication, regardless of what sells more or less, regardless of agreement or disagreement. If the author tells me that I should stop, that I should take it off of Batoto, it will be stopped and offline. We have already been doing this and following requests to a tee from both the authors and scanlators who have approached us. We have even take further steps to aid them achieve their wish in areas out of our control. I might disagree with them, but I still do it, out of respect.
Now, why is my philosophy different from yours? Here's why.
First, you appeal to the issue of impossibility of sale vs free. How can you sell anything when there's something for free? This is the question repeatedly asked rhetorically by the groups like RIAA. But not only are there answers, the question is actually not that relevant. Take a look at the recent craze: Gangnam Style. It's available for free on the internet. Yet, it's the top seller world wide. Literally thousands of derivatives of gangnam style are now on the net -- some of which are parodies, some of which are translations in both subs and dub, much like scanlations, and many of which are for sale. Psy or YG (pub company) does not complain about them because they help them in the end. It increases popularity even more. They are loving the fact that people are sharing their work and making derivatives of it. In turn, they made it easy and convenient to sell the song and music video. The increase in popularity also makes easier sales on works to come.
But what if we put a traditional thinking and old models of sales at place? The video would have been geo-locked to Korea, the derivative works would have been shut down, the MV clones also shut down. The fame that it has would never have come to be. They'd be happy time making one percent of the sales they're currently making.
So, while I understand where you are coming from, from a philosophical point, I cannot agree with it. If they want to make sales, they should make it easy to buy. Not make lots of restrictions.
I am all for authors exploiting their works to the fullest extent. But I am against such restraints on everyone else. I am not a anti-copyright person, just a copyright reformist. I do not believe the copyright, in today's form, helps the artists or the consumers; it only helps selective publishers.
P.S. I wrote what I wrote that which you quoted
because someone on the internet was wrong. Not because I was advocating a fully free market world.
________________
The Company
[b]Batoto
To the question at the end: you draw a line in a different place than I do. You draw the line of what's acceptable vs unacceptable where exchange of money takes place. I draw the line at respect. I believe in a system where one can respect another. Regardless of any english publication, regardless of what sells more or less, regardless of agreement or disagreement. If the author tells me that I should stop, that I should take it off of Batoto, it will be stopped and offline. We have already been doing this and following requests to a tee from both the authors and scanlators who have approached us. We have even take further steps to aid them achieve their wish in areas out of our control. I might disagree with them, but I still do it, out of respect.
Now, why is my philosophy different from yours? Here's why.
First, you appeal to the issue of impossibility of sale vs free. How can you sell anything when there's something for free? This is the question repeatedly asked rhetorically by the groups like RIAA. But not only are there answers, the question is actually not that relevant. Take a look at the recent craze: Gangnam Style. It's available for free on the internet. Yet, it's the top seller world wide. Literally thousands of derivatives of gangnam style are now on the net -- some of which are parodies, some of which are translations in both subs and dub, much like scanlations, and many of which are for sale. Psy or YG (pub company) does not complain about them because they help them in the end. It increases popularity even more. They are loving the fact that people are sharing their work and making derivatives of it. In turn, they made it easy and convenient to sell the song and music video. The increase in popularity also makes easier sales on works to come.
But what if we put a traditional thinking and old models of sales at place? The video would have been geo-locked to Korea, the derivative works would have been shut down, the MV clones also shut down. The fame that it has would never have come to be. They'd be happy time making one percent of the sales they're currently making.
So, while I understand where you are coming from, from a philosophical point, I cannot agree with it. If they want to make sales, they should make it easy to buy. Not make lots of restrictions.
I am all for authors exploiting their works to the fullest extent. But I am against such restraints on everyone else. I am not a anti-copyright person, just a copyright reformist. I do not believe the copyright, in today's form, helps the artists or the consumers; it only helps selective publishers.
P.S. I wrote what I wrote that which you quoted
because someone on the internet was wrong. Not because I was advocating a fully free market world.________________
The Company
[b]Batoto
