banner_jpg
Username/Email: Password:
Forums

The reliance on "one-click" host for scanlation groups

Pages (3) [ 1 2 3 ]  
You must be registered to post!
From User
Message Body
Post #609590 - Reply to (#609583) by cmertb
Member

8:03 am, Aug 3 2013
Posts: 21


You quote so much just to justify that participants in p2p network cant hide the fact that they are participants, lol. Tell you the truth though, i don't really like network engineering that solid much, my impression is that they are the type of people who celebrate obfuscation.

Quote
And if that peer happens to belong to a copyright troll, they can start tracing you.


How true ...from a theoretical standpoint. Does it mean that your ISP would add peers around the globe to just charge you or something? lol.
Those who would go this far aren't really ISP, i see no difference between "one-click host" and torrent if you want to be safe. If you really want to be safe, try search some anonymous p2p somewhere else and now i would say it is not for everyone.

Member

5:26 pm, Aug 4 2013
Posts: 42


Usually, it's the copyright holders who report to police.

The police will collect the evidence and decide when to take action. The ISPs do the last part of the job, which is revealing users' info on police request. ISPs are neutral but the local law can require the ISPs to terminate contracts with repeated offenders or limit their speed. It's not limited to bt, in Japan they have multiple generations of encrypted P2P software, all of them have users arrested repeatedly.

File hosts only offer weak protection as their responses vary depending on their physical locations. Many of them are outside the US or countries with strict copyright protection. Some simply block all US ip.

Post #609791 - Reply to (#609590) by lolnameless
user avatar
Member

7:58 pm, Aug 4 2013
Posts: 402


Quote from lolnameless
You quote so much just to justify that participants in p2p network cant hide the fact that they are participants, lol. Tell you the truth though, i don't really like network engineering that solid much, my impression is that they are the type of people who celebrate obfuscation.

Quote
And if that peer h ...

You understand neither bittorrent nor how copyright trolls operate.

Well, thankfully now you admit that your IP is visible even if protocol obfuscation is turned on.

Here's how copyright trolling works: They join the same swarm that you do. They log all IP addresses in the swarm that upload anything. They look up those addresses to select the ones in the jurisdiction they can get to. They file John Doe lawsuit(s) against those IP addresses. Through the process of discovery, they subpoena the ISPs for the identities of account owners those IP addresses belong to. Then they send extortion letters to the owners of those accounts. PROFIT.

Is this clear to you now?

________________
Active translations list
Completed translations list
Dropped translations
Member

12:55 am, Aug 5 2013
Posts: 21


^ The two experts up there if you learn to read, you shouldn't be bother explaining how copyright trolls may collect evidence for suspicion, while neglecting how common and lawful torrenting manga is in other country. (Well, license of most manga simply doesn't apply in your area)

That's why i mention only the ISP. ISP is too powerful, ISP can wiretap you or whatever and can easily charge you without getting through too many mails/locations.
Outside ISP, it is all the same, how free is the internet all depends on you, the license and your country. Website as big as youtube don't care the slightest about you when shit happens. They just hand in your IP like nothing. That's why i said, if you want to safe (or more precisely, if you believe in those two experts who think the earth is dangerous or something), both torrent and "one-click host" don't work, they are the same.
You want to use either VPN(bad solution) or an anonymous P2P network which actually does work (I2P comes to mind), not the old-fashion kind you find in Japan, which are closed-source and that's why they are buggy, oh, of course you would be arrested in Japan. Japan is in the worst shape you can ever imagine on this aspect, using them as study case is like comparing our internet to the Chinanet. They passed the SOPA equivalent of copyright law, even download already is illegal.

Member

1:32 am, Aug 5 2013
Posts: 42


Not expert here. Its because you lack the basic concept. Its not the ISP which wiretap you,
They must keep record of traffic and ip for safety issues. It's the Govt/law enforcer who look into it. ISP don't keep the contents. The contents are reviewed by other methods: search engines, social networks including here, mails, phone records etc.

Youtube operates in US, it's not an example. Megaupload based in NZ is still having legal issues with the US, but it restarted a new service using servers elsewhere.

Private proxy or VPN are just similar - need $, not many groups will use it, and downloaders too.

There are hundreds are file sharing methods:
want safety? keep it as private as possible
want more people to use? need to wait for years and they will soon be cracked and become 'old-fashioned'.


Post #609838 - Reply to (#609834) by megane007
Member

2:53 am, Aug 5 2013
Posts: 21


Quote from megane007
Not expert here. Its because you lack the basic concept. Its not the ISP which wiretap you,
They must keep record of traffic and ip for safety issues. It's the Govt/law enforcer who look into it. ISP don't keep the contents.

You still don't read. That's why you lack the basic concept. Which line did i say ISP would wiretap you for their own sake? They can be enforced by government much like you said.
Quote
The contents are reviewed by other methods: search engines, social networks including here, mails, phone records etc.

You get what i am getting at, genius.
Quote
Youtube operates in US, it's not an example. Megaupload based in NZ is still having legal issues with the US, but it restarted a new service using servers elsewhere.

How could you say that, if US is bad and doesn't count, then all example from Japan doesn't count lol, because Japan is bad. If Japan doesn't count, then where do all the dangerous examples come from? You also didn't mention that most license of manga dont even extend outside Japan. How could you linkage p2p to illegal activity, i mean, it is such a legal act, sarcasm i guess?
Quote
There are hundreds are file sharing methods:
want safety? keep it as private as possible

That's right. Let's unplug from the internet or something, idk.
Quote
want more people to use? need to wait for years and they will soon be cracked and become 'old-fashioned'.

It is quite true for anonymity, an option that cant be possible without the use of p2p to begin with, which is hardly relevant to the topic. However, since the internet is dangerous you know, what more people to use, i don't get it.

Post #609880
user avatar
Member

9:33 am, Aug 5 2013
Posts: 402


lolnameless don't accuse other people of not reading until you learn to write. I know English isn't your first language, but the same applies to most people here.

To get back to the topic, now that we've worked through your misconceptions about bittorrent: Downloads from so-called file lockers are inherently safer than torrent.

A torrent swarm exposes your IP address to possibly thousands of peers who you don't know. A download via HTTP is a transaction known to you, the host, and your ISP. A download via HTTPS is a transaction known to you and the host.

ISPs generally don't care (as of now, but it will likely change in the future) about what you download. Therefore, unless there is a wiretap warrant on you, HTTP and HTTPS have the same degree of safety. The risk comes from the host you download from. Now consider the fact that it is one host that poses a risk to you vs thousands of peers who pose a risk to you in case of p2p. Then consider the fact that some of those peers are known to be actively malicious, while file locker host is not malicious in itself, only when forced into it by circumstances.

Consequently, your claims on the relative safety of torrent vs http dl don't hold any water due to your lack of knowledge of the protocols involved.

Certainly, there are advantages to using torrents for distributing scanlations, but they're outweighed by the disadvantages. That's a separate discussion though, I'm here only to correct your misconceptions about p2p.

________________
Active translations list
Completed translations list
Dropped translations
Post #609974 - Reply to (#609880) by cmertb
Member

11:50 pm, Aug 5 2013
Posts: 21


Firstly, your post in entirety care only about safety, asserting that the internet is dangerous. I cant see why you still keep yourself online, it doesn't add up. According to your paradigm, i have an impression that being offline isn't enough, maybe you should lock yourself somewhere (or fly to the moon) so no one can harm you.

Quote
now that we've worked through your misconceptions about bittorrent: Downloads from so-called file lockers are inherently safer than torrent.

We? You mess up your identity or something? Your ignorance expands your misconception, I'm here only to correct your misconceptions about p2p.
Quote
Downloads from so-called file lockers are inherently safer than torrent.

Now that's some big talk, it requires a series of over-generalization to say something like this.
Quote
HTTP and HTTPS have the same degree of safety.

That's full of wishful thinking, i would say it is true for text browser like lynx without javascript support, which no one uses, also you cant download from "one-click host" at all! relevant
Quote
ISPs generally don't care (as of now, but it will likely change in the future) about what you download

Wow.. you just said you do read/go through my "misconception", you still read my sentences in half.
Quote
some of those peers are known to be actively malicious,

Does it call social labeling or something?
Quote
while file locker host is not malicious in itself, only when forced into it by circumstances.

If only they aren't "forced into it" transparently.
Quote
Consequently, your claims on the relative safety of torrent vs http dl don't hold any water due to your lack of knowledge of the protocols involved.

If you read the post, then you should be able to see the pattern that you write paragraphs to justify/expand things that i had already taken for granted in the first place in a negative/sarcastic manner.
Quote
Certainly, there are advantages to using torrents for distributing scanlations, but they're outweighed by the disadvantages.

If you are so certain about that, then why are there torrents, are you trying to say they are all stupid? lol.

Post #610000
user avatar
Member

5:53 am, Aug 6 2013
Posts: 28


your posts just get more and more ridiculous as they go on...

________________
Fearless to the point of failing exams
Hobbies include crying in the shower after failing said exams
Post #610002
user avatar
Member

6:18 am, Aug 6 2013
Posts: 402


lolnameless In your last post you're making even less sense than usual and don't really bring up any relevant points that need addressing. The fact that you insist on engaging in non sequiturs (whether due to poor language skills or poor reasoning skills) is beyond my ability to fix. In general, while the level of your English is quite advanced, it's not yet at a point where you can hold meaningful arguments on technical topics.

As for me, I'm satisfied if I was able to help others understand the risks of torrents vs downloads from file lockers. I wouldn't say this topic has outlived its usefulness yet, but it certainly requires a more competent proponent of manga distribution via torrents in order to move forward.

________________
Active translations list
Completed translations list
Dropped translations
Post #610024
user avatar
Member

9:24 am, Aug 6 2013
Posts: 1792


let's be clear about this: you want to reach the scanlators right?
big news, but they (sorry that I am speaking for all of them) don't care.
why would they? it works the way it is. the only thing I hear people complaining about is that there are downloads and not online readers. torrents may be fast and easy to use but we don't need it. most people are reading a chapter as soon as it is released, why bother with torrents for measly 20-40 pages or bundle them together? I don't see the point in giving them more to do and manage...

please just let them do what they want the way they want. this whole topic is pointless - unless you become one high class download messiah and everyone follows you. yeah, I doubt that...

________________
in need of romance?
uncommon, sad, sweet
Post #610047 - Reply to (#609838) by lolnameless
Member

3:21 pm, Aug 6 2013
Posts: 42


Quote from lolnameless
That's right. Let's unplug from the internet or something, idk.

"idk" is the actual meaning for most of your replies, you finally got it.

I've said that hosts in US and other copyright-strict countries are bound to comply the rules, and you use Youtube as an example. That shows that you are either don't read or don't know Youtube operate in US, and you don't know there are other file hosts that operate outside that realm too.

Back to the days people used modems for internet, they knew how to share file secretly, and obviously, you don't know too. Unplug from internet? You're either ignorant or trolling.

Legal issues is yet another matter. I don't think it's strongly relevant here as I don't see all shared stuff you mentioned are all licensed or the other way round.

Member

5:02 am, Aug 10 2013
Posts: 21


Quote from Sostag
your posts just get more and more ridiculous as they go on...

quite right, I just print out their absurdity transparently. Your argument is called "name-calling", which is bad.
Quote from Lorska
let's be clear about this: you want to reach the scanlators right?
big news, but they (sorry that I am speaking for all of them) don't care.

You are right. I am merely suggesting an idea too! Adding torrent as another download option is a mere method/option/whatever instead of necessity. If you go through this thread, i added some "disclaimers" in various place that I am not here to enforce people, but counter the half-truths which i don't agree with.
Quote from cmertb
lolnameless In your last post you're making even less sense than usual and don't really bring up any relevant points that need addressing.

It is your opinion. My previous post is pushing their nonsense forward without giving out any of my POV (why should it be necessary to begin with?) to show that their tone is funny.
Quote from megane007
"idk" is the actual meaning for most of your replies, you finally got it.

I've said that hosts in US and other copyright-strict countries are bound to comply the rules, and you use Youtube as an example. That shows that you are either don't read or don't know Youtube operate in US, and you don't know there are other file hosts that operate outside that realm too.

Back to the days people used modems for internet, they knew how to share file secretly, and obviously, you don't know too. Unplug from internet? You're either ignorant or trolling.

Legal issues is yet another matter. I don't think it's strongly relevant here as I don't see all shared stuff you mentioned are all licensed or the other way round.

megane007 you are a genius. I refuted your argument over and over again but you just repeat and didn't address my counterarguments at all lol.
If i use youtube as an example is irrelevant because US is bad, then all "serious" example on copyright infringement (oh wait, you just mentioned something without even citing source, and now you start pointing finger at my source.) are irrelevant because they are bad, lol.
If they are irrelevant, then how does the internet suppose to be dangerous to begin with?
It is naive to say that you can walk through the internet as long as you don't p2p, you cant convince me if you host a website additionally. I think the arguments for/against safety on the clearnet are funny.
In the old days, i am very young, i do have experience on 56k or something for years, people use emule to share files, back then people is still arresting people who sold physical copy and downloading from emule is quite impractical for average people, it can take weeks or months to download a CD or TV episode, who knows. I am not sure about the even older days, when people hardly acknowledge the issue.

Legal issues are not relevant? You're both trolling and ignorant.

Last edited by lolnameless at 6:08 am, Aug 10 2013

user avatar
Mad With a Hat
Moderator

8:29 am, Aug 10 2013
Posts: 4764


You know... Don't.... Just, don't.
Go torrent some porn or something...

________________
Hrodulf and Bjornolfr, you will not be forgotten.
User Posted Image
And if the world were black and white,
you would be my rainbow in shades of grey.


Click 'n Play!

If I had a fantasy self, it'd be a tentacle monster.
Pages (3) [ 1 2 3 ]  
You must be registered to post!