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Post #618657 - Reply to (#618597) by Kewl0210
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Pissed Off TL0r
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8:47 am, Oct 23 2013
Posts: 143


+1

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2:51 pm, Oct 23 2013
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Prozess is saying that complaining is rude/lazy/easy/hurts everyone and actually going about learning the work and doing it is polite/proactive/difficult/helps everyone. It's something that can purely be done by hard work. You don't need to leave your computer, get a degree or have tons of connections before you can get your foot in the door, a lot of jobs can be learned in a couple days (At least on a rudimentary level). Translating at least at the basic level can be done in a couple years if you work hard. Even completely on your own (Though working with others will be faster. I'm trying to learn a third language completely on my own and develop my Japanese skills mostly on my own). Or else sooner but much slower if you use the right sources (You'd be looking things up a lot more, or else you'd be doing manga with very simple language). So basically actually working is the better choice. And as it's been established, you're not owed anything so you really don't have a leg to stand on if you're complaining.

It's not like say... You think your city's professional sports team sucks, so go work for 10 years and devote all your time and energy to it and become a member of the team so the team does better. That's an unreasonable request. What's more, because usually those such people are being paid and are in a competitive market. Scanlation is a hobby that really can only get you practice/experience that could maybe someday lead to getting money, but is not life-supporting in itself.

It's not a reasonable thing to complain about scanlations not being done the way you want. However it's fine to just be sad that something you wish were scanlated isn't scanlated, just the complaining and the rudeness is the bad part.

lys
Post #618675 - Reply to (#618283) by bibisuki
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4:11 pm, Oct 23 2013
Posts: 116


Suki tte Ii na yo is licensed by Kodansha Comics, you know? It'll be published in English soon (first volume next April). They're publishing a volume every two months, so it's a great chance to revisit the beginning of the series you love, and let the publisher know through your purchases that you want them to publish more works like it! Kodansha has said they are definitely watching the sales of this series and My Little Monster (also licensed, coming out in March) to see how shoujo titles do here, and if they sell well (as I really hope they do!!) they will certainly look into publishing more smile

(this is in response to a specific post; i realized after posting that depending on the view it can just show up at the end of the thread looking rather off-topic.)

My sympathies lie with the publishers here. The thing that bothers me most is when a series I'd like to read in English has no chance of being picked up for publication because it's already been entirely or mostly scanlated, and the company doesn't want to risk the expense of publishing a series that "everyone's already read for free." I buy several of my favourite series in Japanese while waiting for the day I might get to have it in English too, but it makes me sad when I see the scanlations get really far into the series because I know that's hurting its chances... (so I'd actually count it as a good thing when the series gets dropped by its group before they finish it).

Last edited by lys at 4:20 pm, Oct 23

lys
Post #618677 - Reply to (#618325) by Lanz16
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4:25 pm, Oct 23 2013
Posts: 116


Itazura na Kiss is also published in English by DMP. They've released 9 volumes, but the volumes are either 1.5 or 2 volumes of the original (they're based on one of the Japanese bunko, I think, so total will be 14vol?), so they're way ahead of the scanned releases anyway.

Post #618682 - Reply to (#618675) by lys
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6:46 pm, Oct 23 2013
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Quote from lys
The thing that bothers me most is when a series I'd like to read in English has no chance of being picked up for publication because it's already been entirely or mostly scanlated, and the company doesn't want to risk the expense of publishing a series that "everyone's already read for free.".

I've never heard this line from publishers. Do you know of any specific examples, from publishers' own mouths?

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Post #618700 - Reply to (#618682) by cmertb
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10:21 pm, Oct 23 2013
Posts: 352


Quote from cmertb
I've never heard this line from publishers. Do you know of any specific examples, from publishers' own mouths?

I'm positive I've heard this at least once before from a publisher, I believe on some anncast. Damned if I can remember which one at this point; it was probably a couple of years ago now...

I thought it may have been Vertical Ed, but I checked through the ones he was on and it didn't seem to be him after all... Although he did claim (rather vaguely) that some mangaka refuse to license their works because of scanners back in 2010 (around the 49 minute mark), which would lead to the same result.

On the other hand, here's a confirmed case of scanlation leading to a licensing in English.

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3:41 pm, Oct 24 2013
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What angers me the most is not even on the list so I'm going to use this opportunity to rant a little. What angers me the most is when scanlation groups make you jump through hoops just to get to their releases. Creating treasure hunts where they give you a quiz, and then you have to search through their forum for the answers. Then say they do it because they don't want their releases to be uploaded somewhere else. However, that only has the opposite effect the sooner they realize that the better.

Post #618773 - Reply to (#618763) by UnknownUser
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7:10 pm, Oct 24 2013
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I hate to point out the obvious, but if you don't like how scanlators make their releases, become one and do it better. You are not giving scanlators anything, so they have neither need nor obligation to make things convenient for you.

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Post #618781 - Reply to (#618597) by Kewl0210
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7:58 pm, Oct 24 2013
Posts: 65


What a great, thoughtful response, I agree with you completely. I don't understand people who think they have the right to complain to people who give them something nice for free. I stated some of my pet peeves in this thread, but I've never complained to the scanlators when I came across them, only glared and grumbled at my computer screen a bit X) I really appreciate the work scanlators do smile

Post #618784 - Reply to (#618773) by cmertb
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8:31 pm, Oct 24 2013
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Quote from cmertb
I hate to point out the obvious, but if you don't like how scanlators make their releases, become one and do it better. You are not giving scanlators anything, so they have neither need nor obligation to make things convenient for you.


I've done scanlating before thank you very much. So much for that suggestion. Also, so what? Doesn't mean I don't have the right to complain or have an opinion on it. They have their rights and I have mine. Also I never go and complain to the scanlators directly so who cares? I can complain about it when asked. Not like my opinion is hurting anyone's feelings.

Last edited by LawX at 8:45 pm, Oct 24

Post #618796 - Reply to (#618784) by UnknownUser
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10:23 pm, Oct 24 2013
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You're welcome, although your logic is deficient. The fact that you've "done scanlating before" doesn't mean that anyone should take your complaining about scanaltors seriously now.

I agree, you certainly have the right to complain (where you won't get banned for it wink ). But at the same time you must admit that scanlators have the right to ridicule your complaints on the basis that you consume what they produce without giving anything to them in return. If you don't think they have that right, then you don't have your right to complain either. Let's be logical, okay?

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Post #618806 - Reply to (#618796) by cmertb
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12:58 am, Oct 25 2013
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Quote from cmertb
You're welcome, although your logic is deficient. The fact that you've "done scanlating before" doesn't mean that anyone should take your complaining about scanaltors seriously now.

I agree, you certainly have the right to complain (where you won't get banned for it wink ). But at the same t ...

In the situation used, the scanlators in question ARE requiring something in return. They are taking people's time and soliciting forum views (and often, forum activity) from the potential reader.

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Post #618807 - Reply to (#618806) by x0mbiec0rp
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1:12 am, Oct 25 2013
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Quote from x0mbiec0rp
In the situation used, the scanlators in question ARE requiring something in return. They are taking people's time and soliciting forum views (and often, forum activity) from the potential reader.


This.

Quote from cmertb
You're welcome, although your logic is deficient. The fact that you've "done scanlating before" doesn't mean that anyone should take your complaining about scanaltors seriously now.


Also, where did I say that because I've scanlated that people should take me more seriously? You're making assumptions here, I was merely answering back to what you said.

Last edited by LawX at 1:23 am, Oct 25

Post #618808 - Reply to (#618807) by UnknownUser
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1:55 am, Oct 25 2013
Posts: 539


Totally agree.

I think its weird that people think scanlators shouldn't have to deal with complaints or criticisms. I get that you're doing a job for free, but if you are doing a bad job at it why can't I have a complaint (whether I'm another scanlator or just a leecher)? In the end, aren't most of the criticisms trying to help the scanlators become better at their jobs?

Also, what this forum was meant to be was what angers you about scanlations. If there are complaints about readers, maybe there should be a different poll for that next week.

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Post #618809 - Reply to (#618806) by x0mbiec0rp
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2:06 am, Oct 25 2013
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Quote from x0mbiec0rp
In the situation used, the scanlators in question ARE requiring something in return. They are taking people's time and soliciting forum views (and often, forum activity) from the potential reader.

Hmm? So you consider a request to be a decent member of the manga fan community to be a payment? Isn't participation something that you should give freely and gladly?

Quote from LawX
Also, where did I say that because I've scanlated that people should take me more seriously? You're making assumptions here, I was merely answering back to what you said.

If your past scanlator experience is irrelevant, then don't bring it up. Since you disavow that line of argument now, let us return to the original point: if you don't like how scanlators do releases, become a scanlator and do it yourself the "right" way. Your other option is to take what you're given for free without complaint. Your third option, if you don't like the first two, is to meekly submit to the well-deserved ridicule. Your choice.

Oh, I can process three leechers at a time:
Quote from KaoriNite
I think its weird that people think scanlators shouldn't have to deal with complaints or criticisms.

You're a little confused here. The issue is not leecher complaints regarding quality, which can be valid and are more often than not addressed to everyone's satisfaction, especially if they're politely worded. In fact, I don't even see them as "complaints" per se, more like additional QC reports. The issue under discussion here is ridiculous complaints arising from leechers' false sense of entitlement. Like the ones I'm addressing above. You have to agree that there is a world of difference between "You have a typo on page 3" and "I'm pissed off that you're making me show my appreciation when we all know I don't appreciate you at all, and by the way, hurry up with the next chapter, will you?"

Last edited by cmertb at 2:16 am, Oct 25

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