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Post #618810 - Reply to (#618809) by cmertb
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lagomorphilia!
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2:18 am, Oct 25 2013
Posts: 2506


Quote from cmertb
Hmm? So you consider a request to be a decent member of the manga fan community to be a payment? Isn't participation something that you should give freely and gladly?


Yes. Participation is something that should be given freely. Freely. As in not as payment for scanlations or being payed with scanlations. Which is what the complaint is about.

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Post #618811 - Reply to (#618810) by x0mbiec0rp
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2:26 am, Oct 25 2013
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Quote from x0mbiec0rp
Yes. Participation is something that should be given freely. Freely. As in not as payment for scanlations or being payed with scanlations. Which is what the complaint is about.


It's this, why is this so hard to understand? Instead, you are getting the illusion of appreciation. If you want to continue forcing "appreciation" go on ahead. Just pointing it out.

Quote from cmertb
If your past scanlator experience is irrelevant, then don't bring it up.

Again, I was only answering back to what you said in the first place. You are bending things to suite you.

Post #618812 - Reply to (#618810) by x0mbiec0rp
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2:35 am, Oct 25 2013
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Quote from x0mbiec0rp
Yes. Participation is something that should be given freely. Freely. As in not as payment for scanlations or being payed with scanlations. Which is what the complaint is about.

Should be, but isn't. If you were willing to give it freely, you wouldn't complain about being required to give it. If you're not willing to give it freely, what's your basis to complain again?

Quote from LawX
It's this, why is this so hard to understand? Instead, you are getting the illusion of appreciation. If you want to continue forcing "appreciation" go on ahead. Just pointing it out.

You're preaching to the choir. In case you haven't noticed, I'm merely pointing out that a leecher complaining about it is ridiculous. It's scanlators' business how they do releases. If you want to point out that it's only an illusion and not the real thing, I'm with you. If you want to complain about it, then be ridiculed, regardless of whether you have some irrelevant scanlator experience in the past or not.

Quote from LawX
Again, I was only answering back to what you said in the first place. You are bending things to suite you.

If you thought it was an answer, you didn't understand the question. Would you like me to walk you through that line of argument again?

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Post #618813 - Reply to (#618812) by cmertb
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lagomorphilia!
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2:49 am, Oct 25 2013
Posts: 2506


Quote from cmertb
Should be, but isn't. If you were willing to give it freely, you wouldn't complain about being required to give it. If you're not willing to give it freely, what's your basis to complain again?

Call me old fashioned, but I generally like to appreciate something after enjoying it. It's also easy to turn appreciation into resentment, if you're demanding your "appreciation" in specific amounts in weird places that require people to fill out forms and agree to terms of service.

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3:06 am, Oct 25 2013
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Complaining about being forced to show appreciation is not ridiculous considering it is my payment. Also, there is another option and that is go somewhere else to dl it. laugh

Post #618829 - Reply to (#618808) by KaoriNite
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Pissed Off TL0r
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9:03 am, Oct 25 2013
Posts: 143


If they are doing a bad job and you're pointing that out politely, then it's criticism.

But if you just bluntly tell them how they suck, it's complain.

And the matter at hand here is the complaining part.

I doubt any scanlator has anything against constructive criticism, some even welcome it.
But complaining is a completely different matter and shouldn't be grouped together.

I still don't see the problem as to why you cannot commit 5 minutes to download a release, when the group itself spend HOURS to make the release.
Groups have their reason for releasing stuff like they do, mostly because of the influence of online reader sites.

That resentment only comes from your own laziness.
Be honest, you just want to read the chapter as quickly as possible and maybe leave a short "Thanks" as a comment, so that you have fulfilled your duty as a loyal reader.
But then some group dares to make you browse through some forum for a couple of minutes to find the release, which steals your precious reading time. I can understand that, but you complaining about it, is not an option. You might seek a discussion with the scanlator about that problem, or you could simply wait until the release shows up on an online reader.

But no, in most cases, the readers/leecher always resort to complaining/flaming/etc, which is outright wrong.

Quote from LawX
I can complain about it when asked. Not like my opinion is hurting anyone's feelings..


It can hurt if expressed in the wrong way.
Of course everyone has the right to have an opinion, but if a scanlator has to read these "opinions" like "you're too slow" "release faster" every day, then I'm sure they can hurt, or at least make him lose his motivation.

Again, you should differentiate between complaining and constructive criticism.

Then why not just shut up and go there?

That's the problem to begin with. Reader feel entitled to express their egoist "opinion" to the scanlators.
What makes your "opinion" better than theirs?

They spend HOURS to make that release, so it's their fucking choice how to distribute it.
You can either comply with that or shut the fuck up and go away.


Last edited by blakraven66 at 9:57 am, Oct 25

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Post #618830 - Reply to (#618810) by x0mbiec0rp
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9:07 am, Oct 25 2013
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Post #618831 - Reply to (#618813) by x0mbiec0rp
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9:11 am, Oct 25 2013
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Post #618833 - Reply to (#618784) by UnknownUser
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Post #618834 - Reply to (#618814) by UnknownUser
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9:16 am, Oct 25 2013
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Bored Antagonist
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9:22 am, Oct 25 2013
Posts: 43


See, I scanlate because I want others enjoy it. I don't have to do it and I certainly don't care about what you want to read or how fast you want it.

I would like it if, you, the leechers would be able to leave your thoughts on what you thought of the manga instead of just "thanks" on my website, but it seems people only become "creative" writers if you delay or piss them off.

Also, I might add that positive feedback/appreciation generally motivates those who spend countless hours perfecting the releases you read.

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Post #618836 - Reply to (#618834) by Unknown
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9:31 am, Oct 25 2013
Posts: 1096


Quote from PROzess
Then why not just shut up and go there?

That's the problem to begin with. Reader feel entitled to express their egoist "opinion" to the scanlators.
What makes your "opinion" better than theirs?

They spend HOURS to make that release, so it's their fucking choice how to distribute it ...


Oh my such language, you seem upset. Anyway, this is what this thread is about is it not? This thread opened up the conversation. As I said I never go to scanlators directly with how I feel about the matter. If I don't want to go to the effort of jumping through hoops then I'm not going to go through of effort of sending messages to them. Yes, they have the right to distribute their releases however they want. That still doesn't mean I have to like it or lick their boots.

I'll go to other scanlation groups and give them my genuine appreciation. Instead of being forced to answers quizes and go on treasure hunts.

Bored Antagonist
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9:35 am, Oct 25 2013
Posts: 43


hmm I must say I don't understand why people would make it very difficult to download manga. I mean if the whole point is to distribute manga that other people may not have been able to read then why make it so difficult?

That being said, I'm okay with password protecting the files as long as they clearly state what the password is.

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Mad With a Hat
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11:27 am, Oct 25 2013
Posts: 4764


What the hell is matter with people here? What's with all that bashing?

This thread is specifically about qualms about scanlations and scanlators.
Just because it's free, doesn't mean a person should be happy when served with shit.
Scanlations were meant as free for fans, fans being the people who don't do the work.
I'm not saying it's not in their "rights" to make it hard for said fans to have access to their releases, but it's definitely within the fans' rights to complain about it, especially if there's a thread around this question.

I'm an active scanlator, but I don't scanlate every single manga out there and I don't know Japanese, so naturally, I read other groups' releases.
On the subject of jumping through loops I'm on agreement with Law. It's annoying. Very annoying.
Law also specifically stated not ranting about it directly to the groups, so what's wrong with being unsatisfied with them and speaking out in this particular thread?

@cmertb
So high and mighty.
What some groups make you go through isn't a mere sign of appreciation, but an offering of time and sanity to their thrones of megalomania.
Again, they can do what they want, but it doesn't mean we all have to scoop the poo with a spoon and smile with content.
There's another side to this. If some groups demand this payment (and it is payment, no matter how you choose to spin it around), why shouldn't all groups? Soon, to get to a chapter that was done for fans for free, readers will be forced to go through hours of nonsensical torture. But hey, as scanlators, we have the right. Forget about the aggregator sites who'll profit from this, and that nobody will be visiting scanlators' sites directly, at least we've had our pound of flesh and 50 posts to topics that don't relate to anything from each dedicated reader, if any are left.

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Post #618849 - Reply to (#618829) by PROzess
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lagomorphilia!
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1:44 pm, Oct 25 2013
Posts: 2506


Quote from PROzess
That resentment only comes from your own laziness.
Be honest, you just want to read the chapter as quickly as possible and maybe leave a short "Thanks" as a comment, so that you have fulfilled your duty as a loyal reader. But...

Thanks for implying my time is near worthless, and the only reason I have a problem is laziness. I love that. Especially since you're just using this as a platform for your real dispute, the readers who angrily demand new releases from scanlators and insult hard work with not basis.

They're jerks. Do keep in mind, though, that that's a separate issue and that you shouldn't try to twist my complaint into support for their actions.

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