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New Poll - Sexism

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Post #652642 - Reply to (#652621) by sunao26
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10:10 pm, Sep 21 2014
Posts: 15


There are vast swathes of the world where white people are a minority; I've lived in some of them. Likewise, if a trope is unacceptable, then shouldn't it be unacceptable regardless of gender? It's a double standard if these tropes are unacceptable when applied to women but fair game used against men.

That said, I notice a tendency to treat all differentiation by race or sex as unacceptable. There's a difference between equality and identity. For example, I wasn't offended when people assumed I didn't speak Spanish in a predominantly Hispanic city. My Spanish was fluent, but some people would pull out English first even if they were uncomfortable in it. Sure, they were treating me differently based on race, but the intent was to communicate better. They still saw me as an equal; just not identical.

On the other hand, when the older generation of my family were evicted from their homes for being Japanese, they were no longer being treated as equals. Their behavior was a great example to me of dealing with social inequality: Rather than complain and demand recompense, they worked to be model citizens and earned respect and trust by their examples.

Last edited by ascoat at 6:10 am, Sep 23 2014

Post #652644 - Reply to (#652642) by ascoat
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10:35 pm, Sep 21 2014
Posts: 41


Wait, you're saying that you were being discriminated against because people addressed you in English when you knew Spanish in a predominantly Hispanic city, how is that treating you unfavorably? We're talking social discrimination here. If you were being discriminated, they would have spoken Spanish to you regardless of if you know Spanish or not and refused to find a way to communicate with you outside of that language. They would have not even interacted with you.

It seems they were actually treating you favorably if they went out of their way to speak another language outside of their primary one to accommodate you. If I go to Koreatown, Los Angeles, USA and a shop owner speaks to me in English because I look like I might not speak Korean than I'm being socially discriminated? Stereotyping perhaps, since they are inevitable, but being socially discriminated? English is still the most spoken language in the U.S. is it not?

And the situation with your family, your family had to conform and adapt to the norms and propriety of others because they were deemed not appropriate solely for being Japanese. They then decided that they would be "model citizens" which was what? Not being "too" Japanese? What you call complaining and demanding compensation for being treated unfairly some might just call standing up for themselves.

Last edited by ThirySixChambers at 4:42 am, Sep 22 2014

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11:29 pm, Sep 21 2014
Posts: 21


That poll bothers me, not some sexist trope.

Post #652653
Member

4:30 am, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 208


I find it pretty sickening that this poll seems to bother more people than the 'what breast size do you prefer in manga' poll that we had some time ago!

Perhaps there should be another poll with the question: 'how proudly sexist are you on a scale of 1 to 10'. I've read some amazingly horrible comments from people who seem to have time travelled from the 1800s ("thank god Japan's not progressive?" I feel very sorry for the women in the life of the weirdo who said that)!

I voted for 'objectification' because it's so widespread and 'natural' in most manga genres. Portraying rape as a lead up to romance is probably worse though- whether the character who is raped is female, or male (as is so prevalent in BL). no

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5:23 am, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 16


Indeed, this poll's wording is off. It's too vague and it does sound like something a completely biased SJW wrote. I'm also not entirely sure if it's really about ~sexism~, or more like, about morals in general. Either way, I'm of the opinion that sexism does still exist, and definitely not only against women. I've noticed that people who think sexism only affects women are usually saying things like "all men are the same" and that "abuse against men doesn't exist". When it's about manga, I'm also repulsed by people who think that, for example, if a seinen's main male character got raped, then "he's lame" and "that's funny".

In any case, pretty much all of the things in the poll's options rub me the wrong way, BUT it greatly depends on how they're used in a work. If it's a mature work where the issues are addressed correctly, then I don't mind at all. However, if the writing is inept (which, unfortunately, seems to be the case in most instances, imho), twists those things around and doesn't even treat them as problems, then it's just absurd. I can't excuse it, not because I personally dislike those things, but because the way they're treated in fiction often gives people the wrong message, and it's so frequent, it starts seeming right and normal at some point. Entertainment can affect people's views negatively on a subconscious level, and that's what's so bad about it having the wrong message. Just thinking about how many don't take the alarmingly twisted depiction of something seriously, "because it's just fiction", and then spout nonsense based on influences from fiction..

So, back to the poll choices, I'm bothered by objectification (there is way too much of this everywhere) and any kind of abuse not being taken seriously, or even recognized as what it is at all. Also, extreme generalizations based on gender/sexuality/race/nationality, but I haven't encountered that depicted in downright disturbing ways in manga, as much as the other things I mentioned.

And as for the people here complaining about SJWs, I think I get where they're coming from, too. Because from what I've seen, the majority of the loud self-proclaimed SJWs seem to be completely immature, irrational, and, worst of all, tend to take everything to a whole new level by making it all out to be ~problematic~, about gender, race and whatnot, even when whatever they're bashing clearly isn't and never was intended to come off that way. I keep seeing so much nonsense, I don't even know whether it's funny or sad anymore.

(Edit: Oops. I guess I was thinking in my native language instead. Yeah, my English isn't great. Point taken.)

Last edited by wreckage at 5:18 am, Sep 23 2014

Post #652658 - Reply to (#652451) by BlackOrion
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Pro-crastinator
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5:28 am, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 620


Same here laugh Can we get that on a T-Shirt?

Post #652677
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2:20 pm, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 186


Ugh, sexist tropes.
To be honest, all of them are rather grating.
But if I have to choose, I'd pick "Falling in love with their rapist."
Especially since it's one of the only gender-neutral ones on the poll.
("F.I.L.W.T.R." probably happens in every demographic/genre, unfortunately.
I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in yaoi a lot. /I don't read yaoi tho'.
(But that shows it happens to BOTH genders, and not "just girls" >.>...)

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6:09 pm, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 20


If this poll were a seesaw, the male side of it would be launched into space.

Post #652698
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8:56 pm, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 4


Ugh, this wasn't there, so I voted on something else instead, but I'm most annoyed by the Faux Action Girl and the Chickified Action Girl:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxActionGirl
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Chickification

Like someone who supposed to be or starts the series being totally competent and in charge of her own destiny and then, as soon as the (male) main character gets involved, is suddenly reduced to being rescued, support roles, romantic subplots, deferring to the main character all the time, and "man, how great is that man leading us?". Basically, a character that goes from being a true actor (or at least pretending to be one) to simply the main character's yes-girl.

Some examples:
* Mikasa from Attack on Titan
* Sakura from Naruto (at certain points)
* Kaoru from Ruroni Keshin
* Samus in the Other M
* Lunamaria from Gundam Seed Destiny



Post #652699 - Reply to (#652698) by Anthop
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9:15 pm, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 646


Quote from Anthop
Ugh, this wasn't there, so I voted on something else instead, but I'm most annoyed by the Faux Action Girl and the Chickified Action Girl:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxActionGirl
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Chickification

Like someone who supposed to be or starts the series being totally competent and in charge of her own destiny and then, as soon as the (male) main character gets involved, is suddenly reduced to being rescued, support roles, romantic subplots, deferring to the main character all the time, and "man, how great is that man leading us?". Basically, a character that goes from being a true actor (or at least pretending to be one) to simply the main character's yes-girl.

Some examples:
* Mikasa from Attack on Titan
* Sakura from Naruto (at certain points)
* Kaoru from Ruroni Keshin
* Samus in the Other M
* Lunamaria from Gundam Seed Destiny


Good one; I hate this too. It's cruel because it gives you hope and then tears it away. bigrazz

Member

9:34 pm, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 46


What an incredibly pointless poll.

Member

10:42 pm, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 2


Thank you for reminding me to never use the forum section of this website. Whose idea was it to make a sexist poll about sexism in manga? The hypocrisy!

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Demon Child
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10:53 pm, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 127


to those who want a story with a female character that does not disappoint try
the Tamír Triad by Lynn Flewelling
Tobin Rules Over All!!

________________
Smiles Conceal Knives - Lynn Flewelling.
There is No Such Thing as BAD Words.
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Post #652705 - Reply to (#652656) by wreckage
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11:12 pm, Sep 22 2014
Posts: 41


It's hard to take your post seriously when your first point is about the poll's bad diction and you proceed to use a triple negative in that sentence. laugh

Last edited by ThirySixChambers at 11:33 pm, Sep 22 2014

Post #652714 - Reply to (#652704) by zeroINUGAMI
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Procrastinator
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1:35 am, Sep 23 2014
Posts: 388


Sorta of a tangent, but thanks for the recs. They look pretty interesting.

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