I voted no for both. I don't read either since I haven't delved too deeply into those genres (yet). It's just a work of fiction. That's how I see it.

No. It's fiction. Banning it solves nothing.

Yeah it's not like the moderate right-wing AfD isn't constantly showered with nazi slurs lol

Or, well, ANY other political party to the right of the CSU.

Also -> "Those you claim to be against muslim extremism, but who actually show that they are against muslims, in general, and against people who (for the lack of a better term) "look Middle Eastern" "

How exactly do they "show" that? You mean like how a handful of troublemakers at a demonstration shouting politically incorrect slogans or get violent "shows" that the 5000 other people at the demonstration are violent racists?



If something does not cause you distress, there's no need to treat it.



Neither is pedophilia.



Both of these were considered to be grave psychiatric disorders in the past, so please excuse my sarcasm.

________________

The NPD are kind of monsters and we though about banning them multiple times but decided against it because that wouldn´t solve anything. If we ban them they go underground and will be forced to show their colors for real. Freedom of speech includes hate speech too. Even if it is targeted directly at people like me .

The Loli-Nazi card game is a re-skin so you could put anything on it. But fetishistic the living hell out of schoolgirls and fascists to get attention would be anti-constitutional here in germany. An import by me would thus be illegal. We managed to mess up pretty hard and thus must take our historic responsibility seriously. Everyone of my friends was horrified when they saw the cracked link. My senses though are so dulled down now that i can´t even care anymore. If the market needs it then so be it. The japanese(and nearly everyone else involved in the war) have committed enough atrocity that we should be careful how we handle the symboling or what it means.
My grandma didn´t suffer the St. Petersburg blockade to have her history trivialized in such a manner. What would the japanese think if another country came up with a ecchi comedy based on Nanking. The yews weren't the only victims of the war. The SS were the villains not the Wehrmacht. And neater were the millions the german civilians who were raped or had to prostitute themselves after we lost the war.
Context is everything to me and the reason why Bersek is on my pull list and Violence Jack would never be. I am not here for goreporn after all and neater is Miura. Only the opening scene of the epic has zero context to the story due to early continuity syndrome. If you take out the rape out of Gut´s backstory then his character and a lot of symbolism falls apart in a second. Take out the blood orgy during Griffith's Rebirth then Slan spirit isn´t present anymore and the story can´t go on. Even she herself reprents blind lust for power/pleasure.
Why were they eating small children during the orgy you ask ? What were they supposed to do with them ? They were starving, crazed an contently producing new ones.
Or look how all that murder has treated our hero ? The Beast of Darkness and his near loss of sanity and humanity have now to dealt with constantly. Miura chose a a delicate setting and decided to own up to it by not misrepresenting it. Other cases like Saw 1 (great for a low budget movie by first timers) or let´s say Seven can back up their violence due to it´s interesting story. Saw sequels like 3D managed to turn the now allways on screen gorn into the main star and look where the franchise in now. Irreversible has a 8 minute one take rape scene and Ebert(and to a slightly lesser degree i) loved it.
Did i recommend it to a female friend because i hate women or was it due to the movies unflinching take on violence and blind revenge ? A story does not need a moral to work but mountains of corpses and graphic(underage)sex just for the sake of it won´t be found in my pull list. Rosine is the clearly underage fairy apostle who is full frontal naked in nearly all of her scenes. Can you figure out why that wasn´t a problem to me or the series high amount of female readers so we can go on with the topic of poll. Did i read 2+ volumes of that because i like looking at naked kids or was there again an intent on the authors side? When did my series turn into the epidemy of what is wrong the manga today anyway ? Second highest rated thing on ANN and a forerunner to FF VII and Dark Souls and so on.
I said my peace on this part of the topic so let´s move on.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 1:30 pm, Nov 19 2014

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

Actually pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder while homosexuality isn't. People used to think it was.
But of course not all people who read loli/shota are pedophiles and don't need a "psychiatric help" like someone said here. People who can't differentiate between fiction and reality are the ones who need to have a talk with a psychiatrist.

This is going wildy off-topic, but I'm pretty sure that the Japanese aren't the ones who would have an issue with this..... Beside denying that it ever happened, that is. Indeed, some of the right wing nutters might even say that such an anime is an accurate representation of what really happened.



Well, take Mina Tepes from Dance in the vampire Bund for example. Or Konoe-Sensei in the ToAru-verse. So yeah, exactly what it sounds like. Because, at the end and in this context, loli is more often a reference to the body type rather than an indication of the actual age. Except that it is also a reference to age and thus the need for the term "adult loli". Lulz. Languages and terms live and shift like the people who use them.

Last edited by Baalzebup at 2:10 pm, Nov 19 2014

________________

The conversation is wildy off-topic allready. At least someone knows his history.

To get back on it: "Lolicon: Representing a sexual attraction to young or under-age girls." Same for shota says the genre description here. Does pony porn fall under that or do they need to be Equestria Girls to get that tag ? WTF is an adult loli ? Does it need to run in an actual hentai magazine ? Nonexistent Youth bill says no.

I know what the term "adult loli" meant but the existence of it makes our conversation nearly void. The genre-tag here calls her a "Fake Loli" btw . Slap the numbers on the character that the "Surgeon General" demands and you escape scot free. I wonder what the assign NSA agent is thinking of this tread by now. Snowden liked his anime too .

For the love of the god-hand lets stop talking about Berserk HERE. Open a new topic and i will come. I am about to get a brand of sacrifice tattoo and don´t want to regret it.
The nymphomania discussion is way more suspenseful anyway.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 5:09 pm, Nov 19 2014

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

No, it only tells us that you're hypocrite and have shit taste for dropping Berserk
#rekt

And you're saying that's just because they wave German flags and/or are against muslim extremism?
Yeah right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany#Public_ima ge

No.
I mean by what their manifestos state, the words and behaviours of their top level member and such things.

That's not how mental disorders are defined.

By that definition, a psychopath with a compulsion to murder people, would not be considered to have a disorder.
Psychopathy, which both the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (which are the two big and authoritative books on mental health conditions, in the world) lists as a mental disorder, would not be considered a disorder.

Yes it is.
http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2015/en#/F65.4

Yes, and people used to think the Earth was flat.
So what?
The notion that those are disorders, has been conclusively disproven.
Thus bringing that up is utterly irrelevant.

Unless you are suggesting that, because we have been wrong on some subjects in the past, we may as well be wrong about everything (what is known as the pessimistic induction) ...and that we therefore cannot claim to know anything, to any degree of certainty (in which case, you cannot claim to know anything, or that you are right about anything. Thus, while arguing against what I've said, you would also argue against everything you've said, yourself)...

People used to think the Earth was flat.
They were wrong.
Then people thought the Earth was a sphere.
They were also wrong (it's an oblate spheroid, IIRC).
But if you think that they were as wrong as the people who thought it was flat, then you are more wrong then both of them combined.

Last edited by zarlan at 3:52 pm, Nov 19 2014

A re-skin? No. No it isn't.
If it is a re-skin, then please do tell me which game it is a re-skin of.

"Fetishistic the living hell out of schoolgirls" is not illegal in Germany. Well, not unless they are actual, real, schoolgirls.
Doing the same with nazis... well I'm not sure it would be illegal, in all cases, but yeah:
Germany does ban a lot of nazi-related things. Generally completely ignoring such things as "context".

That's a problem with Germany.
Not the game.

That article was utterly skewed and contained blatant lies.
Also, your friends are not the arbiters of what is good or acceptable.
My friends certainly weren't horrified when they had fun playing the game.

Her history has been trivialized? When? Where? By whom?
What is this event that you are talking about, where her history was trivialized?

I fully agree with your arguments for why the sick and twisted things in Berserk are there, but...
How is any of that relevant?

Also, I've been wondering: What the hell is this "pull" list you speak of? I've never heard of it.
At first I though it might be a spelling mistake (among the many ones you make), but as you use the term consistently, that's obviously not the case.

You are the one who said it was.
Not me. Not anyone else.
You.

To refresh your memory:
You said "So while i think that freedom of speech should protect these "things"(not from getting sued by the relatives of course) i really think that we as a species doom ourself by the acceptance of the market by it."
...while referring to works that contain rape and/or under-age characters in sexual contexts.
As you yourself admit, Berserk does contain rape and under-age characters in sexual contexts, so...

If you want to leave a topic, you do so by leaving the topic.

You don't make a long rant, writing a minor essay ...and then, at the end, say "and that's the end of this discussion, with me having the last word. No one may now reply to what I said, or point out any errors in it. That way I can say my opinion, unopposed."
That is dishonest, hypocritical, cowardly and arrogant.

Nah, not unless they are anthropomorphized.
That's either bestiality or furry.

Last edited by zarlan at 3:50 pm, Nov 19 2014

True, not all. Never said they're all. But since Shiratori is a self-proclaimed pedophile...


No, homosexuality is not a psychiatric disorder. Ergo, making your inherently false reply actually helping my previous argument.

Unless it was a sarcasm.

A failed sarcasm at best.

Why?

Mostly because it was based on my "Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder" statement was wrong.

According to various studies and academic text book, I was not.

So... I don't know. Lol?


Just because you don't feel the urge of raping it doesn't mean it isn't for you.

FYI, the treatments are also use for treating non-criminal.

Another FYI, your argument was a fallacy.


Not an argument.



Pedophilia is. And no, I'm not making that up.

Man if you don't know this basic fact, but instead opted for ignorance, maybe I should stop treating you like we are an equal peer.


Congrats, another fallacy.


Last edited by bnad at 7:28 pm, Nov 19 2014

Tom Reimann knows his stuff and you get to fight Stalin(there is your connection to my russian roots) in "Barbarossa: Anime Women of the SS" as real gender bender Nazis in the DECK BUILDING GAME. If i know something about these games(i play Resident Evil) is that they all are just variations on the same mechanics or "Dominion" clones.
My final word on the sub-topic and guess which other countries it won´t be comming to eather because this is the "sequel" story to the card game. "Operation Barbarossa" was real too. In short: http://www.saint-petersburg.com/history/siege.asp
A pull list is a comic term for which books you pick up and we don´t have maid-cafes here.

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

Oh really?
He calls it porn. It isn't.
He says it didn't go down well in Japan. This is nonsense.
He implies that it trivializes the atrocities of WWII. This is also nonsense.

Now...
I asked you what game that it was a re-skin of.
You have not even attempted to answered that question.

...or are you stupid enough to try and claim that it is a re-skin of Dominion?
Touhou Shisouroku is a re-skin of Dominion (made with permission and/or collaboration from the creators of Dominion ...who, I assume, get part of the profits). Kinda like how you have Star Wars monopoly.
Same game, different look.

Tanto Cuore is quite similar to Dominion ..but it is nevertheless not the same. It has some game mechanics that are unique to it, and which do not appear in Dominon.
Barbarossa is even more different. It has phases and game mechanics that never appear in Dominion.
When do you attack cities, in Dominion?
Never.

You can say that it's game mechanics are based off of Dominion. You could call it a Dominion clone ...but to claim that it is exactly the same as Dominon, just with different names and pictures on the cards (or even just that it has the same rules, but slightly different cards), is insane.

Same game, different look?
No.
Different game, different look. Same category of games and related game mechanics, but...

Is it?
*googles*
"A pull list is an agreement between a comic shop and one of it's patrons in which the store purchases a copy of whatever books the buyer wants on a regular basis with the understanding that the buyer will purchase them in a reasonable amount of time. It's much like a subscription system, but more personal and timely."
http://www.examiner.com/article/comics-101-what-is-a-pull-list

Other sites that confirm that definition:
http://comicbooks.about.com/od/glossary/g/Pull-List-Comic-Boo k-Glossary-Definition.htm
https://pulllist.comixology.com/faq#q5
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/pull-list-5623 01/

The term "pull list", does not seem particularly applicable here, as we are not talking about purchases.

Also, this explains why I had never heard of the term before, as I don't frequent English speaking physical comic/manga stores.


Where did that come from?

Also, you still haven't said what event were you talking about, where your grandmothers history was trivialized? ...and how did it do so? Please do explain.
...and what relevance did your justifications of the horrors in Berserk have, to anything we're talking about here? You still haven't answered that.

There are more points that you have deemed not to answer (because of fear of losing the argument or wanting to sweep them under the rug, perhaps?), but I'll just stick with those two.

Last edited by zarlan at 6:39 pm, Nov 19 2014

LOL Yes I'm a hypocrite. We both said that already, geez. I dropped berserk because it was terribly disgusting, if that makes my taste in manga shitty, then fine.

You're like, a god or something~!

You're joking, right? If not, I can't help but think that you're an idiot or something...