Hey, so I posted recently in the I'm looking for forum in search of a manga with a strong female lead who don't need no man to save her, is not sexually objectified and has good character development.

I may be opening a can of worms here but I'd be really interested in what other manga readers think of on this topic because I also believe that keeping quiet on a topic like this isn't healthy.

Perhaps if we raised a bit more awareness about the issues we have with the representation of females and males in manga, it can lead to more accurate representations in the future.

It's not considered ok now on TV to sexually objectify let's say, highschoolers so why is it okay in manga? And i'm not just talking about hentai or smut (genres in which this is expected) but I've found that it occurs in just your regular ol shojos and shounens

Its not useful to talk about 'manga' as if its some big coherent thing. There are literally thousands of manga magazines published in Japan, and millions of manga out there. You are looking at every facet of Japan. Just like every other country there are some people who are sexist and some people who aren't. There are some magazines publishing wonderfully progressive manga with strong female leads and some publishing woefully immature and demeaning sexist manga.

Its not really useful to try to sweepingly generalize 'manga' as a whole. It's be like sweepingly trying to generalize anything else, like saying all books are sexist, or all poems, or all paintings. Some are, some aren't. Yeah, sexism is particularly prevalent in manga, there's no denying that, but that's simply because Japan is not a particularly nice place for women. Its a very backwards country in many ways.

Its not inherent to the artform though. There's just as much sexism in Japanese TV, Japanese books, ect. Manga is just a medium. There are just as many people writing feminist manga in Japan as there are people making feminist books, poems, movies, or anything else. The key thing to remember is that there's good and bad in every country and every medium, and you just have to seek out the good and leave the bad.

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"We can not resort to simplistic or extreme solutions which substitute myths for common sense." ― Jimmy Carter

Keep in mind that in JAPAN/KOREA/CHINA (or whatever Asian country that produces manga)
- Shoujo and Shounen type series are usually marketed towards children in elementary/high-school...

- When manga artists draws "SEXISM" in manga, it mainly for SEX APPEAL

- I don't read much shoujo, so I am not sure what kinds of sex stuff appears in those types of series, but I'm pretty sure that shounen is mainly supposed to be sold to male readers.

- MOST (if not all) YOUNG MALES GO THROUGH PUBERTY.

- PUBERTY SELLS

- YONG MALES LOVE females with sex-appeal (BOOBS, PANTIES, FEMALE BUTTS, FEMALE LEGS, THE WAY THEY LICK A BANANA/ICE-CREAM, etc.)

- YOUNG MALES love reading reading about females who blush and get embarrassed when they get into ecchi situations (THE WIND BLOWS THE SKIRT AND WE SEE SOME GOODIES)
- SEX APPEAL SELLS GODDAMMIT.

- SEXISM IN MANGA helps young males subdue their urges of not experiencing the same things they longed to experience in their everyday lives.

- SEXISM HAS BEEN IN MANGA SINCE DAY ONE.

I admit, I only know a small part of the genre of manga, the mjore mainstream stuff I suppose and specifically the stuff I can get in a country as far from Japan as you can get.

I'm not trying to say that all manga is sexist, I am sure there are many progressive works out there but my standpoint is that I am a consumer of this particular medium and I have found a lot of issues in this spefici area.

I don't expect to start a sexual or cultural revolution but maybe just to get people to question what they're reading like, "is that up the skirt shot of the teach in this manga really necessary?" instead of blatantly accepting and I know some people may even think that it's okay to treat women like that.

And yes, sexism is pervasive in so many things and of course I try to seek out the good but I don't believe that we should have to accept the bad. I stand up for what I believe in and I say I am pretty fed up with girls in mangas being portrayed as weak and helpless (e.g. black bird) and that these mangas influence young women who don't know any better, who hasn't been able to seek out the good and have only known the bad and believe that this is how women should act/behave in order to be loved.

Speaking from personal experience, when I started reading manga, I didn't know any better than the shojo series I read, if it weren't for the chance to stumble upon FMA and other great series, I would have been profoundly influenced by the weak characterisations of females in the mangas I read



That doesn't mean it has to be forever. Sexism has been in our society since day one and day by day, we are taking a stand for equality between males and females



I'm quite aware that sex sells- hence why advertising companies exploit it to death and I am also aware we live in a world where money makes the world turn so of course making profit is of utmost improtance.

But when things like TV and manga begin influencing young minds- saying that you have to be weak and clingy to get the boy or only girls with massive tits are appealing, I don't think that's cool and I don't think that's okay either. This also furthers slut shaming and victim blaming causes, I'm not saying reading mangas directly leads to either of these things but I do believe that it can sure have an influence. So many females in mangas who do not consent to whatever it is the male counterpart is doing and yet, the male continues because 'the girl wants it even when she says no'

I don't think that's okay. I'm looking at you black bird.

Last edited by lalalarry at 11:08 pm, Mar 25 2015

Agan, this is because manga is the only medium you read that produced entirely in Japan, right? If you watched Japanese TV shows, movies, read their books, ect., you'd see it's all just as sexist. It's not specific to manga. Japan has radically different (i.e. worse) attitudes towards women than where you're from.

Also, the readership of manga in the west is a tiny group of people are such a small group they're not representative of anything. They're peope who are deliberately seeking out foriegn comics for a variety of different reasons -- and, yeah, some of them are attracted by the sexism in those manga you're talking about. Like I said, there's creeps and sexists in every country.

So tl;dr the mainstream of Japan is far more sexist than most countries. That's all it is. If you're a fan of comics and are a feminist, like me or countless other people, you have to search for the good people and the good manga, just like you have to do with everything else. Maybe you have to search a bit longer and harder, but its there, just like every other country there's good an bad.



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"We can not resort to simplistic or extreme solutions which substitute myths for common sense." ― Jimmy Carter

EQUALITY?!?!?!?!?

WHAT THE HELL DOES EQUALITY HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! You're talking as if a SEXY FEMALE or SEXY MALE being exploited for their SEXINESS is supposed to be a bad thing.

Well let me tell you something little miss sunshine, if I see a teacher in real life with big boobies and a nice-ass walking past me, I will not hesitate to look at every inch of her body & her sexy walking movement at every angle that I can possibly view without being noticed.

NOW, if I can do that in real life, why can't a character in a manga do the same? For values? For the damn Equality? I'm sorry, but you seem to have been living in HALLELUJAH-LAND since birth.

Japan is a sexist country to begin with.
In order to change the sexism in manga, you'll having to changing the country.
So this thread is all about A BARKING DOG with not BITE.

A FEMALE/MALE treated as a final goal - an object - is not such a terrible thing.
MY ultimate goal is to marry this beautiful sexy female actress & have her voice one of my manga series when it becomes an anime adaptation. What is so wrong about that? AM I abusing her as an object - a highly objectified prize - in order to have enough perseverance to achieve my goal.

Has feminism started on Manga? This is hilarious.

I think you're missing that point that AquarianDemocrat was trying to make. He/she was trying to say that the reason why most mangas is sexist is because of the culture of Japan, which is vastly different from Western culture.

First of all, upholding tradition is very important in Japan as a whole if not individually, those values must be respected and preserved, which include that women are the weaker of the two genders and each gender has their own role and responsibility in society and in their homes. Furthermore, the working habit of Japan doesn't leave a lot open for women, only because this is their work ethic ever since the end of WWII. They work long hours which means the man is the breadwinner while the woman takes care of the children and normally the finances, because she cannot afford to work long hours and take care of the children. Pair that with the fact that the government does not help, it contributes to the brewing of the strict culture and the sacrifices that must be made by women and men. All of this influences why manga is "sexist" especially from a westerners point of view, and I'm assuming you're coming from a western culture (if you're not I apologize for assuming). Manga is the outlet of Japanese life generally - their ideals, ideas, art, what they think of other cultures and their own, etc. We are technically not a consumer of manga because we don't make them any money, the publishers generally don't care about whether or not people outside of Japan is buying manga, they are not trying to expand outside of Japan, in fact they are trying to restrict it.

This is only one of uncountable reasons why you have a panty shots of women in mangas etc. and though they don’t sound relatable, once you start digging, it starts to make more sense. In societies that have strict gender roles, especially if the woman is dependent on the man it leads to a path where women will generally be sexualized, which is unavoidable, but doesn't mean that people don't disagree it should change in Japan and in the manga community.

Subjectively, I'm critical of Japan and their outlook of women and men as a culture (a complicated entity that is both is separate and one when associating it with people). I very much dislike and at time fed up the culture's thought process of what women and men must do and the cultures idea of femininity and masculinity. Objectively, I also understand and respect that this is their culture and this didn't happen overnight. WWII has had a pretty mental effect on their culture and it still resonates today, as with the rest of the world. There are aspects of Japanese culture/Asian culture that the “west” can learn from and vice versa, and including the whole world.

But trust me change is happening in Japan - a lot of women are choosing not to marry because they want to have a life of their own and getting married would dash that. Things will have to change because of this as Japan's population begins to rapidly decline and in the near or far future I'm sure you'll be seeing a lot more great popular mangas with strong female leads. Sorry this was so long and drawn out.

TL;DR Asian culture vs Western culture, WWII, and many other things are the reason why mangas has a lot of sexism against women and men, but change is happening.

Last edited by Vitiate at 11:57 pm, Mar 25 2015

From a different perspective, it means you can appreciate the strong female MC's just that much more. I suggest you check out Miriam and the two sequels.

There is sexism everywhere, I know, and maybe I should have just stayed silent, but the thing is, I don't want to be silent anymore. I have an issue with it and I am welcoming an open discussion about it because I just don't want to stay silent anymore. If we stayed silent, we won't have had all the societal progressions we've had in the past years, decades. And even if this is insignificant, I'm going to stop being silent on a point I feel strongly about.

My point of this post is not to start a revolution, but just to open minds. And have a lively debate about something I feel strongly about.



No, so long as you have this beautiful lady's consent to marry her. My objection comes from I suppose a female's point of view that it kind of sucks to not be a beautiful sexy female actress and feel inadequate because that's what mangas have told me i should be to be loved. And most girls will grow up and realise that no, I don't have to be like that but for along time and for a lot of girls, they don't know any better than the shojo mangas we read and manga is such a huge part of japanese culture, I can't imagine it not having at least some influence on the readers



If you want to admire someone, go for it, If you want to grab at her butt (not saying you do, just saying hypothetically) that's where my problem is (that is of course, unless you ask for her consent to touch her buttocks, in which case if she says yes, then go for it)

I don't believe i live in hallelujah land since birth just because I believe in equality. I believe in equality because I see how freaking shit the world is around me. And one day, i hope for maybe a progression towards equality. But honestly speaking, full equality will unlikely to be ever achievable.

My main issue is not only the objectification but the attitudes towards females in general in manga. I find that when a female character is objectified, it doesn't stop there, it continues to her being usually naive and powerless when a male character makes advances on her that she doesn't want.
I don't know what a guy thinks when he sees something like that because I'm not one but personally it makes me feel uncomfortable that something like this is regarded as so mainstream and people are so sensitized to it that they think it's okay to treat people like objects.

These sorts of attitudes can later lead to things like victim blaming and slut shaming as I mentioned in an above post (not saying directly correlated but defnitely and influence)







Really interesting you mention that actually, in a huffinton post article, it actually said that this exact thing is leading to the possible crashing of the Japanese economy.

So we had this lovely poll: New Poll - Sexism
http://mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=47821&hl=sexis m

Here are my two cents. Manga is (sadly) the most sexist medium i am a fan of (there is also some "reverse sexism" or however you want to call it going on too to be fair) but if you want to combat that then there is only one way you can do it.
Support what you like and ignore everything else. The end.
Petitions, great internet debates and whatnot will lead us nowhere and manga is inherently an escapist medium that tries to for the broadest demographic possible so if you put sexappeal in you shonen then you readership may double. There is fanservice (nothing troubling) in the Sailor Moon manga too after all. The anime/manga and hentai industry is also joined at the hip which is the main reason why things now are as they are. Japan is further great at just letting sleeping dogs lie as that is how things worked since forever.
So expect like ZERO change in the immediate future.
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokusatsu - Japanese word meaning "to ignore" or "to treat with silent contempt"

Here is the thing though. Zero sex (or sexism) can be a big sales factor too as Attack on Titan proves. The manga is as gender neutral as you can get and look at the numbers. Support that and don´t buy the official One Piece mouse/breast-pads (jep) and we will be just fine. About feminism:
If you think that women are allowed to vote or have other basic human right then congratulations. You are already a feminist! What i want for the future is for terms like "White Knight" to go away and for people to look up the definition of words as feminism before they start to drag them thorough the mud. Well have fun you guys and never forget that Bleach is supposed to have a higher female then male readership (so women are part of the problem too), that the average SJ reader is over 18 and that the field of anime is way more troubling then manga in the way female characters are written or displayed (eg. DVD "extras", Gainax-ing, that everyone needs to be a 15/16 year old virgin and...).
I remember a time when mainstream anime was less of a problematic field but that was also the time when the wortst OVA´s possible came out so you win some and you lose some.
Shrug and one can be sexy without being shit.
How about La La La or Otoyomegatari or Sekkachi Hakushaku to Jikan Dorobou?

Edit: I forgot to "pimp" this out: Female MC, no romance
http://mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=49081
Here are your sexism-free(-ish) manga. Like 200 by now. Care to contribute ?

Last edited by residentgrigo at 4:43 am, Mar 26 2015

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I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

As many people have already said, the main problem lies in the fact that Japan holds different values in respect of those of the western countries. Which means that while we can disagree on their point of view on sexism and other things, there's not much we can really do from outside. I'm sure there are organizations raising social awareness, but the big step can only be done by Japanese people themselves. What I can see, instead, is that a lot of manga which are popular outside of Japan (I'm intentionally leaving out hentai, yaoi etc. since they're the manga equivalent of porn) are of the ecchi and harem type, which leaves me a bit dumb-struck. Even as a heterosexual guy I feel annoyed by this kind of manga, because of the values I believe in (not the ones that were taught to me, the ones I chose after educating myself on all kinds of matters): the fact that western people aren't bothered by them at all shows that while rules may be changing, the mentality is still there. Then again while we may think highly of us, the objectification of women (but also men) in our own entertainment system is far from gone. As someone said, sex sells: and in the fight between money and anything else we sadly know what's gonna win.

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My current top 3:
Fullmetal Alchemist
Pandora Hearts
3-gatsu no Lion

Most of the naive and powerless female characters aren't in shounen or seinen manga - they're in shoujo. They are being written by women, for women. That should tell you that a lot of men aren't interested in reading about that type of character.

The sexism in manga is a reflection of the sexism in Japan. If you want to stop the sexism in manga you first would have to work toward stopping the sexism in Japan. Though small changes have been taking place, Japan is still a very "traditional" society. While it's great for us to be aware of the sexism in manga and voice our opinions on it, there's not much we can do to change a society that we're not even a part of. The best we can do, as @residentgrigo mentioned, is support the manga that presents the kind of messages we like, and to ignore the rest. At the end of the day, making manga is a business. The publishers will keep putting out what is popular so they can make money. Unfortunately, sex (and sexism) sells.

just look at the major success of the Avengers movie
we have a "sexy" woman in super tight ?leather? with pushed up tits prancing around everywhere
not to mention how she looks in the comic books
or the animated variations

we all know that the character is even more usless in a fight than hawkeye and cap.A
she is not in the movie to kick ass
she is in it for young boys to have something to "look" at

sweap around your own front door and all that

i think the french/bel/us comic industry is alot worse than the japanese when it comes to objectifing woman and treating them as playthings
atleast japan have %speaking alot more to offer