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Upcoming Policy Changes (Doujinshi and Novels)

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Post #667237 - Reply to (#667236) by hahhah42
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1:35 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 225


Honestly, doujins aren't even the biggest problem. Rules regarding them and how they are added to the database have been in the FAQ for years. I assume it was addressed before someone else could bring it up.

Post #667240 - Reply to (#667233) by PROzess
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2:57 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 97


Why? Even if this site is for manga, to disregard the source materials just because of personal preferences is no justification to remove them en masse. I understand that MU's main purpose is for mangas, manhwa and manhua releases but this site has, long ago, served as a convenient site for everyone that loves these works of fiction regardless of their medium.

"But that's the whole point of the policy considerations... because it's detracting from the original purpose of MU."

I know that and I am definitely not presumptuous enough to tell lambchopsil or any admin here how to run this site. All I'm asking for is consideration that a seemingly large number of users do not want novels to be removed.

MU is without a doubt a pillar for our community, sure it has moved away from its roots, but is that necessarily a bad thing? If you dislike novels being displayed on the release pages so much what's wrong with supporting a filter that saves your display preferences? You talked about one's convenience but the fact that lamb had opened this up for discussion makes all resulting conversations a battle between personal conveniences (wanting to see novels on the release page VS not wanting to see them - either adding a filter or removing all novels results in more work). Additionally because this was bought to our attention means that some of the admins, presumably, have also recognized that arbitrarily removing novels wouldn't be in the best interests of the site.

Also since this site already has filtering options, it isn't (shouldn't) be that hard to modify existing SQL queries to accommodate for personal preferences.

Personally I think the reason that MU is as successful as it is today is due to this very topic we're talking about. I do not know of any other site that offers a more comprehensive database for ALL things manga/manhwa/manhua related (source materials, doujinshi, artbooks etc). MU is basically the Google equivalent in terms of all things manga (et al) related.

It would be a shame to disregard and not provide any release information in regards to those above mentioned items.


Last edited by Yumcha at 3:10 am, Jun 17

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Post #667243 - Reply to (#667193) by ImmLff
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4:32 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 9827


Quote from ImmLff
First, I would want to clarify few things.
1) Since you said that only derivative works are considered doujinshi here, does that mean that your proposed rules change will not affect so-called "original doujins"?

Same thing would apply to oneshots. They must be published and/or sold in stores (whether offline or online)

Quote from ImmLff
2) Announcement does not make it clear if proposed rules change will apply to all novels or only web novels. Do you intend to limit all novels or only a subtype of them?

Whatever we decide would apply to all novels, regardless of regular novel, light novel, or web novel.

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5:26 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 225


^ Well, that's that then. You allow one novel, you allow them all etc (or not). Can't wait for that fateful day.

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5:26 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 291


It seems to me that the point of these policy changes is to keep MU a published comic-centric site and so it's not about a cluttered release page or work for mods and admins, it's about what kind of site MU should be in the future. I think the question you should ask yourself, without thinking specifically about doujinshi, novels, and etc, is if you want MU to keep being a comic-centric site or if you want it to expand and become a print fiction-centric site (so it'll include all comics, novels, light novels, etc.).

Personally I would like to keep MU a comic-centric site.

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Post #667246 - Reply to (#667245) by mikako17
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6:06 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 3


That's well and good, but you will lose a significant portion of the community this way. People's preferences won't change just because you stop accepting release updates, they'll just leave. I love MU and would hate to see it die a slow death once a new more open site opens up to replace it.

Post #667247 - Reply to (#667236) by hahhah42
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6:22 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 317


I actually disagree with MU's definition of "doujinshi," but that's a story for another day. We might as well deconstruct the western term "hentai" while we're at it.

Anyways, it's easier to check doujinshi releases than you think. I'm a release moderator and the only submissions that make me think twice are those that are clearly just published on some image-sharing site. The "acceptable" ones would usually have a cover page and an information page detailing when the work was released and the contact details of the group/artist. There's also the size of the page (they're usually printed on B5 paper).

Post #667248 - Reply to (#667246) by disgradius
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6:24 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 317


Do you have the data to back this up?

Post #667249 - Reply to (#667243) by lambchopsil
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6:24 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 65


So there was never any choice for at the start?

Post #667250 - Reply to (#667198) by Yousuke
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6:43 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 317


I'm a release moderator, and the problem isn't that there's few of us to check novel release reports. I think the bigger issue is that there aren't enough people reporting releases to us in a timely manner (in other words, as they come out).

Case in point, over the past few days (weeks, even) a single member has reported probably over hundreds of old Baka-Tsuki releases. Absolutely nothing wrong with what he did - in fact I appreciated his efforts - but it did make me think, "why did no one bother years ago?"

Post #667251 - Reply to (#667243) by lambchopsil
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6:57 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 365


Quote from lambchopsil
Same thing would apply to oneshots. They must be published and/or sold in stores (whether offline or online)


I disagree with the proposed change to the rules for self-published manga. If a scanlation group sees fit to translate and edit a comic made in Japan, that manga should be included in MU's database.

Last edited by hahhah42 at 8:19 am, Jun 20

Post #667254 - Reply to (#667246) by disgradius
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10:19 am, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 163


wow wow wow wait a minute xD

mangaupdates won't die just because the novels/doujinshi, whatever were removed (if it actually happens). I don't know, but I believe there are very few people who visit this website ONLY because of novels or doujinshi.

I use the site to keep track of some series I like (manga and novels) and I won't stop using it just because the novels were removed. I will be sad, possibly a little pissed off but I won't stop using the website. This is pure gold, even without the novels.

I don't read doujinshi and, since doujinshi works are mostly yaoi, yuri, shounen ai, shoujo ai, hentai, etc (I'm saying most of them, not all of them!) I filter them out in the user cp and they don't show in the release page (along with another bajillion of series with such genres) so doujinshi are not the problem for me and whatever is decided about them, FOR ME, is totally indifferent.

For novels, I say once again, a filter would be a great option. Novels are also a part of the website, regardless of its name, MANGAupdates, and they have been for a long time. Just because there has been an increase in releases, I don't think they should be removed. Like many people said here, a filtering option would leave everyone happy. Those who don't want to see them, filter them out. Those who want to see them, don't filter them out. Simple.

Anyway. My lists are safe and I won't stop using the website regardless of the final decision.

PS: A WONDERFUL thing to be done (Besides creating a separate section called "Novel releases", that I mentioned earlier in my previous post) would be the option of filtering out all the novels we don't have on our lists xD But I know that's probably hard to do and I don't think it will be done.

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2:02 pm, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 12


No please dont remove the novels, I think they are as important as manga to this site, if you where to do that I think you might as well remove manhgwa, and Light Novels (dont do that either please), I much rather see doujins gone that Web Novels if the problem is to reduce the server load, but please dont remove them, I think they have become as important to us otakus as Light Novels are.

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2:24 pm, Jun 17 2015
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I will gracefully accept whatever changes made. I've used this site for ages, and it's a really well maintained database. I do think that the loss of some light novels (not related to manga/manhwa) in the database would be a massive shame seeing as it's a reflection of how some manga readers' consumption has changed over the years. Also, seems like quite a few people rely on it for release updates? It'd be great if something could be worked out, like the previously suggested filtering or branch site. But since the policy changes are for refocusing, well... if they're gone, they're gone. (On an off note, I don't read LNs nor dislike them so no bias.)

Concerning webcomics/webtoons - I know that recently, some Japanese publishers have been releasing certain manga on their website only (like Square Enix, Hakusensha, I think?), and that Naver and Daum have licencing agreements with the artists they host - if you stick with the OPs proposed guidelinesfor doujin and LN, these webcomics at least should stay on MU since they are 'formally published'. Webcomics is as much a part of what manga has expanded into nowadays, and I don't think they'll be going away in the future.

Lengthy rant, short: Totally support the part of the policy that refines the listings to formally published works.

Post #667263
Member

2:45 pm, Jun 17 2015
Posts: 41


While I agree with the fact that the list of releases needs some cleaning, I do hope that you do not remove novels and webcomics, but instead implement a filter or a sub-section of releases for the novels and webcomics.

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