banner_jpg
Username/Email: Password:
Forums

MangaLator.ch - Everything You Should Know

Pages (8) [ First ... 4 5 6 7 8 ] Next
You must be registered to post!
From User
Message Body
Post #668594 - Reply to (#668593) by cmertb
user avatar
Member

7:56 am, Jul 9 2015
Posts: 525


Quote from cmertb
"Please feel free to prove me wrong." -- I will, after one of two things happens: either a) you attempt to prove your original assertion; or b) you admit that you were making the claim without any ability to back it up, what is colloquially known as "BSing".


The burden of proof lies on you for assuming that mangafox and the like hurt your group in the first place. So bring it on, I'm waiting.

Quote from cmertb
"me: I'm sorry, but which part of "you may start a new topic if you are interested" didn't you understand?
you: In other words, you don't have any evidence to back up your assertion."
In other words, you're just being contrary for the sake of your wounded ego. My proposal still stands. If you choose to start a topic, make sure you pm it to me so I don't miss it.


Stop projecting. Why should I make a topic about it? Just debate me here or let it be, your decision. Jesus.

Quote from cmertb
"But if I had nothing to do in return for the money, sure I'd agree with it. $10 more is $10 more." -- understood, thanks for the answer. Therefore, your level of social development is similar to that of a chimpanzee. The vast majority of people, naturally, choose differently. As more complex animals, they have the ability to look a little farther than instant profit. So this actually explains a lot about your attitude to both the present topic and your continued attempts to make money off scanlation. Many things have a price, of course, but when such peanuts are involved, it was puzzling to me... but now that I understand where you stand in terms of your development, I'm not surprised anymore.


It's called pragmatic thinking, but I guess that's a foreign concept to you. What good does it do for you to reject the offer? Besides, you didn't even have to do anything to deserve the money, and yet you want to complain that someone else gets more than you? For what's basically a free handout? Speak of ego and entitlement.

Last edited by -shiratori- at 8:03 am, Jul 9 2015

________________
User Posted Image
Post #668595 - Reply to (#668594) by -shiratori-
user avatar
Member

9:12 am, Jul 9 2015
Posts: 402


"The burden of proof lies on you for assuming that mangafox and the like hurt your group in the first place. So bring it on, I'm waiting." -- the burden of proof lies on both of us since we both put forward our hypotheses. You get to go first since you made your claim first. It's only fair, don't you think so? So the choice is yours, will you attempt to prove your claim or will you concede that you are unable to prove it? For my part, I will prove my hypothesis regardless of what you choose. Just trying to get you to be honest first. wink

"Stop projecting. Why should I make a topic about it?" -- because it would be way too offtopic here. It was a very simple request. Surely you don't need to get this defensive.

"It's called pragmatic thinking" -- no one said chimps aren't pragmatic. They see someone dangle a piece of candy in front of them, they go for it. It is also pragmatic to try to hustle others by reselling digital raws to suckers or to try to scanlate for money. There are pragmatic calculations behind every scumbag action. Who's ever heard of someone conning people out of money for idealistic reasons? Nevertheless, it's not something most people would stoop to, considering the measly sums involved in your case. Such is the human nature. (See, I actually have a lot of faith in humanity.)

EDIT: added more spacing for readability.

________________
Active translations list
Completed translations list
Dropped translations
Post #668599 - Reply to (#668573) by -shiratori-
user avatar
Pissed Off TL0r
Member

10:25 am, Jul 9 2015
Posts: 143


Quote from -shiratori-
If that much makes you lose your faith in humanity, you must be the greatest misanthrope ever by now.
[/quote]

Already pretty dishearting that you are an example of the same race.

Quote from -shiratori-
What do you lose from them hosting your scans? Assuming you don't rely on ads (which I'm sure YOU wouldn't do LOL), the only issue is that they "steal" your scans without permission. But as I explained before, these aggregation sites help promoting the manga you translate.


They make money of our work. Scanlation is from fans for fans and mainly tolerated by publishers, because we keep it non-commercial. But when the trend shifts towards money-making, like it currently is, the at some point, publisher will bring down the hammer and ruin the community for all of us.
Furthermore, they often resize and place watermarks on it. The resize ruins all the work of the cleaners and the watermarks distorts the perceiption of the readers, who start to believe that online readers are actually providing the scans, interferring with possible future new scanlators.

________________
User Posted Image
T1
Post #668600
user avatar
The H Emperor
Member

10:58 am, Jul 9 2015
Posts: 501


Quote from -shiratori-
In other words, you don't have any evidence to back up your assertion.


Wait, what? You want evidence in a place where people are trying to stay in the greyzone? Seriously? The best I can do is to give you examples...

1. Groups who stop scanlating because they are in need of staffmembers but no one sees the messages on their site. You know they are reading their manga on mangafox.

2. 4chan people who keeps complaining that their group has been dead for 5 years and no one is continuing their favorite manga. (They make me laugh a lot because they kept reading their shit on mangafox but didn't do shit when the group needed them or the 5 years after the group died)

3. The comments on mangafox instead of on the scanlators website. The scanlators would want to stop scanlating because it seems no one is interested in their titles. Except they are reading on mangafox...

I can go on but I think you got the point otherwise it's just too... no

Quote from -shiratori-
I scanlate to give the manga I translate the popularity they deserve. I couldn't care less whether mangafox and other aggregator sites make money off my work, as long as they promote the manga I like and bring them to readers that wouldn't have found those manga if it wasn't for their websites.


Stop lying. You do it for the money. Otherwise you wouldn't do it. Yes, you could care less whether mangafox, other aggregator sites or anyone else make money of your work but just as long as you make money of it. You or they don't promote the manga, that's what scanlators do. If it happens through moneymakers then it's just a side-effect of you people making money.

Also, my ego is enormous but at least I'll never go as low as to make money on others' work without their accept. wink

Quote from alexonxanax
I see your points and I've been convinced. It makes no sense to violate your own guidelines.
I do apologize for spewing that snarky stuff earlier.


Dude, no worries. We are wondering about this too since it makes no sense at all. wink

Post #668635
user avatar
Member

9:12 am, Jul 10 2015
Posts: 370


This has gone completely off topic.
I'm not a moderator but I suggest you discuss about MangaLator here, and eventually create a new topic for other matters.

I agree that, if MU allows these "releases", then we should at least have a way to filter them out of our lists.

________________
My current top 3:
Fullmetal Alchemist
Pandora Hearts
3-gatsu no Lion
Post #668637 - Reply to (#668635) by train93
user avatar
Member

10:07 am, Jul 10 2015
Posts: 402


Quote from train93
This has gone completely off topic.
I'm not a moderator but I suggest you discuss about MangaLator here, and eventually create a new topic for other matters.

Hmm, I don't know, -shiratori- is demanding that we "debate" this right here. Perhaps just for the sake of being contrary.

________________
Active translations list
Completed translations list
Dropped translations
Post #668658
Member

1:29 am, Jul 11 2015
Posts: 1


Mangalator provides raws. Then enable some people to translate them. On Mangalator, the scantradteam that is translating the manga is sometimes mentionned.

It's not because you read manga on Mangalator that you stop reading the manga on the scantrad team. wink As well it's not because your read your manga on a scantrad team that you stop reading them on Mangafox and so on.

Well, there is not point of discussing about the law and the quality of the translation. If you want to be sure of the quality of the translation, buy the manga. As for the respect of the laws neither scantrad team nor mangalator are legal. eyes

smile So, I think the topic about Mangalator was opened in order to introduced it on the baka updates website. I think Mangalator is a good website because it gives raws access to new manga pre-published in Japan.

I would say :
- discovering the raws on Mangalator encourages you to buy the manga in vo as soon as it is published in Japan.
- discovering the manga through the scantradteam encourages you to buy the manga when it is licensed in your country.


Post #668665 - Reply to (#668658) by colline
user avatar
Pissed Off TL0r
Member

3:01 am, Jul 11 2015
Posts: 143


Quote from colline
I would say :
- discovering the raws on Mangalator encourages you to buy the manga in vo as soon as it is published in Japan.
- discovering the manga through the scantradteam encourages you to buy the manga when it is licensed in your country. .


It does not.
Once you have free access to something, the majority isn't going to spend a single cent on it anymore.
Even more so, when everything is conveniently on one site.
Meanwhile, said site profits from the work of others.
Win-win situation, except the scanlators are fucked.

________________
User Posted Image
Post #668676 - Reply to (#668658) by colline
user avatar
Member

7:03 am, Jul 11 2015
Posts: 402


Quote from colline
It's not because you read manga on Mangalator that you stop reading the manga on the scantrad team. wink As well it's not because your read your manga on a scantrad team that you stop reading them on Mangafox and so on.

What? Are you seriously claiming that you'd read 2 or 3 versions of the same chapter?

Yeah right.

________________
Active translations list
Completed translations list
Dropped translations
Post #668681 - Reply to (#668658) by colline
user avatar
Evoker
Member

8:19 am, Jul 11 2015
Posts: 39


Quote from colline
Mangalator provides raws. Then enable some people to translate them. On Mangalator, the scantradteam that is translating the manga is sometimes mentionned.

It's not because you read manga on Mangalator that you stop reading the manga on the scantrad team. As well it's not because your read your manga on a scantrad team that you stop reading them on Mangafox and so on.

Well, there is not point of discussing about the law and the quality of the translation. If you want to be sure of the quality of the translation, buy the manga. As for the respect of the laws neither scantrad team nor mangalator are legal.

So, I think the topic about Mangalator was opened in order to introduced it on the baka updates website. I think Mangalator is a good website because it gives raws access to new manga pre-published in Japan.

I would say :
- discovering the raws on Mangalator encourages you to buy the manga in vo as soon as it is published in Japan.
- discovering the manga through the scantradteam encourages you to buy the manga when it is licensed in your country.



This is absolutely horrid logic.

________________
Check out my MAL page!
T1
Post #668682 - Reply to (#668658) by colline
user avatar
The H Emperor
Member

8:53 am, Jul 11 2015
Posts: 501


Quote from colline
So, I think the topic about Mangalator was opened in order to introduced it on the baka updates website. I think Mangalator is a good website because it gives raws access to new manga pre-published in Japan.

I would say :
- discovering the raws on Mangalator encourages you to buy the manga in vo as soon as it is published in Japan.
- discovering the manga through the scantradteam encourages you to buy the manga when it is licensed in your country.


I disagree with your logic but I think the reason is cultural and translation barrier which makes what you say confusing. (It probably be easier if you said it in French...)

Anyway, while you say a few words in French which no one gets, such as scantrad = scanlation, you get towards a point which we've been trying to say from the start: MangaLator isn't scanlating anything but providing raws on the site. Therefore MangaLator stuff shouldn't be put up as releases on mangaupdates.

I'm glad that we agree on this point. \o/



Post #668683
user avatar
Member

9:06 am, Jul 11 2015
Posts: 145


What I find weird is the MU had to comply to a bunch of demands from the publishers, like removing group links, removed certain title images, etc. Wouldn't MU get in trouble for listing a major site that produces raws? I also thought they were against sourcing raw providers or am I wrong?

________________
Owner of Antisense Scanslation.
Post #668688 - Reply to (#668682) by T1
Member

10:51 am, Jul 11 2015
Posts: 24


Seconded.

I just wish MU cared.

Post #668689 - Reply to (#668595) by cmertb
user avatar
Member

11:29 am, Jul 11 2015
Posts: 525


Quote from cmertb
"The burden of proof lies on you for assuming that mangafox and the like hurt your group in the first place. So bring it on, I'm waiting." -- the burden of proof lies on both of us since we both put forward our hypotheses. You get to go first since you made your claim first. It's only fair, don't you think so? So the choice is yours, will you attempt to prove your claim or will you concede that you are unable to prove it? For my part, I will prove my hypothesis regardless of what you choose. Just trying to get you to be honest first. wink


That'd go against my manners. You know what they say: Ladies first smile

Anyway, you want me to be honest? Alright. I have no reason to believe you have any proof of your claims, so why should I put in the effort to compile the necessary data for a solid argument when you're most likely just talking out of your ass anyway? So yeah, either put forward your arguments and I will reply, or don't. It's your decision wink

Quote from cmertb
because it would be way too offtopic here. It was a very simple request. Surely you don't need to get this defensive.


Doesn't change the fact that I'm not interested in discussing this matter with the wider MU userbase. If this is too off-topic for this thread, then we can continue it per pm though.

Quote from cmertb
"It's called pragmatic thinking" -- no one said chimps aren't pragmatic. They see someone dangle a piece of candy in front of them, they go for it. It is also pragmatic to try to hustle others by reselling digital raws to suckers or to try to scanlate for money. There are pragmatic calculations behind every scumbag action. Who's ever heard of someone conning people out of money for idealistic reasons? Nevertheless, it's not something most people would stoop to, considering the measly sums involved in your case. Such is the human nature. (See, I actually have a lot of faith in humanity.)

EDIT: added more spacing for readability.


Are ad hominems all you have to offer? How about answering my questions instead?

Quote
What good does it do for you to reject the offer?


Quote
Besides, you didn't even have to do anything to deserve the money, and yet you want to complain that someone else gets more than you? For what's basically a free handout?


Besides, it's funny that you basically simultaneously accuse me of being greedy for taking money for translating, and not greedy enough for not getting mad at someone else receiving more money than me in your thought experiment. So which is it?

Quote from PROzess
They make money of our work. Scanlation is from fans for fans and mainly tolerated by publishers, because we keep it non-commercial. But when the trend shifts towards money-making, like it currently is, the at some point, publisher will bring down the hammer and ruin the community for all of us.
Furthermore, they often resize and place watermarks on it. The resize ruins all the work of the cleaners and the watermarks distorts the perceiption of the readers, who start to believe that online readers are actually providing the scans, interferring with possible future new scanlators.


Scanlation is tolerated because the economic damage publishers suffer from it is negligible. Manga in Japanese are intended for the Japanese market only, and the number of Japanese who know English well enough to read the scanlations for free is tiny. In turn, foreigners generally don't know Japanese and thus wouldn't buy the tankoubons anyway. So there isn't much incentive for publishers to fight scanlation, whether they are hosted on mangafox or on a private website.

The watermarks, resizing, and claiming of ownership are of course disheartening. But still, many people simply would've never found your scanlation if it wasn't for mangafox and the like.

If you compare the viewership of the websites of popular scanlation groups, batoto, and mangafox, you will find that the latter is far more popular. What makes you think that all those people visiting mangafox would suddenly visit your website or batoto if mangafox closed down? It's unfortunate, but for many people this is just too bothersome. People in general are lazy, that's just how it is.

Still, even these people will take joy in your scans. Doesn't it make you feel good about yourself too, to know you brought them a little bit of happiness? Even if they don't know you or how much work you put into it, even if someone else exploits your work for money, that doesn't change the fact that it was you who did it. Isn't that reason enough to stop caring whether mangafox rips you off or not?

Last edited by -shiratori- at 11:58 am, Jul 11 2015

________________
User Posted Image
Post #668697 - Reply to (#668593) by cmertb
Member

2:31 pm, Jul 11 2015
Posts: 26


Quote from cmertb
"But if I had nothing to do in return for the money, sure I'd agree with it. $10 more is $10 more." -- understood, thanks for the answer. Therefore, your level of social development is similar to that of a chimpanzee. The vast majority of people, naturally, choose differently. As more complex animals, they have the ability to look a little farther than instant profit. So this actually explains a lot about your attitude to both the present topic and your continued attempts to make money off scanlation. Many things have a price, of course, but when such peanuts are involved, it was puzzling to me... but now that I understand where you stand in terms of your development, I'm not surprised anymore.


Going to just jump in here for a moment, to ask a very simple question.

Your question was the following:

Quote from cmertb
Nevertheless, let us conduct a simple (and very famous) thought experiment. Suppose T1 here offers us 1000 USD. I will decide on how we split the money, and if we both agree, we each get our share based on that decision. But if we disagree on that, we both get nothing. My proposal is: I get 990 USD and you get 10 USD. Do you agree with this split?


You are basically saying, shiratori gets $10, or nothing.

This is basically the same as: "Here, I would like to offer you $10. Do you want it? If you say no, you get nothing."

Apparently, in this scenario, you cmertb, would say "no". No offense meant by this, but that seems pretty stupid to me.

EDIT: I, like an idiot, forgot the question: Why would you say no?

Last edited by legowaffles at 2:40 pm, Jul 11 2015

Pages (8) [ First ... 4 5 6 7 8 ] Next
You must be registered to post!