Never said it was worse, as I brought up how it's not so frequently shown compared to something like pedophilia or sexual violence/rape of all things. Both I've seen here and there in certain series, whereas child abuse I have not, and therefore figured that it doesn't bother me if I'm not reading series that feature it. Things like that happening in the real world though's a complete different story ofc.

Back on point, you need to understand that I found Sexual Objectification as my main issue of being voted up to 8.6%, whereas those votes could've been thrown at sexual violence/rape which I find to be a lot worse. My argument could boomerang right back at me as far as objectification being seen more than rape/sex violence in most manga people are reading, so there's always that...

rape... of everything on that list, rape is the only one that is damn near every time handled poorly. oh, this character is bad, lets have him rape a main/support character just to show how bad he is and thats it. than there is shit like one hentai that was a comedy, where after 2 chapters no one translated it... got my hands on the raws and i can see why, its rage inducing.

of everything on there its the one handled the worst.

as for pedophilia, lets be 100% honest here, there are almost no manga or hentai where the child is a child, if i had to really care about pedophilia 24/7 i would not be able to watch anime or read manga. and the few that really do have pedophilia are EASILY avoided.

i mean lets look at it this way, i couldn't have enjoyed negima if i was concerned with that.

You said, and I quote (with added emphasis and clarification)_
"Beyond all that though, what I really don't get is how some people find [paedophilia] more offensive than Sexual Violence and Rape of all things, somehow."
In other words, you don't understand why people think that child rape, is worse than rape of adults.

Could you please explain to me, how that is not an indication that you consider rape of adults to be worse, than rape of children? After all, if you cannot understand why someone would have a different opinion, than that, then that surely means you don't hold that different opinion, yourself?
Why would you have a difficult time, understanding why people have the same opinion, that you have yourself?

The question is what pisses us off most, not what pisses us off often.
Also, what you said was that you don't understand why people found child rape, and I quote, "more offensive than Sexual Violence and Rape of all things".
More offensive.
Not more frequently offensive.
More offensive.
That's your own words.

If we were to talk about frequency...
No decent person would have any excuse, not to vote for "Sexual objectification", as that is far and away, by a MASSIVE margin, the most frequent
...and it's almost always bad.
Generally just put in, as gratuitous fan-service.
Not as part of the story, or serving the story. Not being a symbol of something, or telling us something. Just needless sex appeal, that makes no sense, distracts from the story, often weakens characters (or even creates characters, that are bases around being sexual objects, who thus aren't much good for anything else)...
I could go on.

Not that it's always bad, but the exceptions are very few ...and the instances of bad sexual objectification... it's practically everywhere.

Last edited by zarlan at 8:49 am, Dec 18 2015

But how do you come to think "Pedophilia" is child rape? It is the attraction towards children, not whatever else.

Also, why do you consider child rape worse than the overview of Sexual violence/rape, which also includes child rape. (OR is this no longer the case?)
Sexual violence/rape against children is still sexual violence/rape, just that it includes also other targets instead of only children.

Well, sorry I didn't repeat myself saying SEXUAL OBJECTIFICATION being the issue, NOT PEDOPHILIA. The fact that you yourself had to insert [paedophilia] for where I said "it" in that quote shows that you've misinterpreted me, but I won't fully blame you for what I can assume was my mistake to phrase it the way I did. Regardless, I'm again not trying to say that rape's worse than pedophilia. I won't specify which is worse than the other or that they're "equally bad," I'm just going to say that they're both terrible things that need to be dealt with in the real world, end of story. So please, fuck off with arguing against a point I never tried to make in the first place.

"No decent person would have any excuse, not to vote for "Sexual objectification", as that is far and away, by a MASSIVE margin, the most frequent
...and it's almost always bad."

Fucking what? Believe it or not, I do consider myself to be a decent human being, despite that being one of the last thing I'd vote for that bothers me; because at the end of the day, I don't see it as such massive problem. Characters appearing sexy isn't and shouldn't be a huge issue. I'd agree to the extent that if they had a deep character to begin with, and then just existed to be shown as fan service throughout the series, it would be pretty annoying. But for characters that are well written and can be beloved by fans, why does showing off parts of their naked body and it coming off as "sexy" automatically make it as being "objectifying?" And again, why is this a bad thing? Also, for fictional stories (and Hell just about anything out there like porn), why is liking a person's sexy body a bad thing just because they don't have "a fleshed out persona/identity?"

Last edited by Lost Rabbit at 9:58 am, Dec 18 2015

Pedophilia

http://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedophilia

The age of conscent is 14 in Germany and the Japanese one was already wrongly stated so look up the legal fine print yourselfs.

Statutory Rape

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Statutory+Rape

To act on such an urge is thus rape by legal definition and the rest will be a problem your layer will have to face. My vote stands and i am somewhat interested to see how much lower the thread can still sink within the last day but i am walking away...

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

That's some twisted hobbies you have. You want to see someone gets raped, then suffers etc, and all for the sake of finding the story about rape without suffering, so you could rage about it. I'd say if you don't like some aspects of this or that, then you should avoid it like plague, or read only after you confirmed that this story has what you want, not wandering at minefiled with blindfold.

I think that what he/she means is that it is ok to have uncomfortable themes, as long as they are presented in the right way, to give the right message. Heck, if you didn't want to read about things that cause some kind conflict, you'd have to read about bunnies and cotton candies the whole time.

________________
My current top 3:
Fullmetal Alchemist
Pandora Hearts
3-gatsu no Lion

When "Pedophilia" is present in manga, the form it takes, is never just someone being attracted, and not acting on it. At least not, that I've ever seen.

How is the worst form of rape, not worse than rape in general?

*goes back and re-reads, to make sure*
Huh? You're quite right. You did mention pedophilia, right before it, which is why I made the misinterpretation, but you were indeed meaning "sexual objectification", when you said "it".
Thus making pretty much all of what I said to you, irrelevant. That's kinda embarrassing.
Sorry about that.
Thanks for the correction.

It's hardly what I'd ever vote for either, considering the other options, but I was saying that, if you vote based on frequency, it pretty much has to be.

Characters appearing sexy and characters being sexually objectified, are two VERY separate things.

What are you talking about?
Who are you responding to? No one in this thread, that's for sure.
Which statements are you responding to? None that have been made, in this thread, that's for sure.

Sexual objectification, isn't necessarily bad.
...but almost all examples of it, in manga/anime (and most other media) are, most definitely, bad.
Exceptions are exceedingly rare.

Again: What are you talking about? (also the other questions that I made, following that one)

Well it seems I'm just rambling on about how I fail to understand the concept + application of objectification, and what makes certain examples of it bad. It was a topic that came up in one of my classes that I questioned a lot with my professor and peers, and I've realized that I'd much prefer discussing it vocally rather than through typing online. So I'll just say that I'm going to drop my questions and kinda move on for now, meh.


It's alright, mistakes happen. Glad we cleared that up in the end.

Nothing bothers me. Know why?
because it's F I C T I O N.

Edit: Whoops, didn't mean to reply to you. I've never commented on a news post before, lol.

________________
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Jammin' Scans

::End of Transmission::

There's no "right way" and "right message" because they changing constantly, and what was "wrong" for you a week ago, can become "right" tomorrow and vice versa. There's no point seeing "right" ways and messages all the time if you never encounter "wrong" ways/messages. Might as well read Ten Commandments and be done with it forever.

No.
It's you claiming that I said things I never said.
I never said that someone appearing sexy, means that they are objectified, nor that objectification is always bad ...nor did I ever say anything that came anywhere close to approaching those issues, in any way.
You indicated that I did.

As to the issues of what qualifies as objectification, and of when/where/how it is done in a good or bad manner... that's a completely different and separate issue. A worthy one to discuss, certainly, but not one that belongs in this thread. The thought of discussing it here, never crossed my mind.