When you modify proof with definitive, then you're picking and choosing what's good enough to prove something or not. And proof doesn't necessarily mean fact, like you said, it's just evidence to establish fact. The evidence can be false. I get what your point is, mine is that just because it's definitive proof for one person doesn't mean it's the same for someone else and that's why there are such varying degrees of faith.

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Relax, not everybody is showing off. Don't get angry by yourself. (:

...Say, how about mentioning some manga about religion and the like? any favorites?

Buddha clearly wins. The new anime films are a mess though.

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The cover's always making me feel it is kind of heavy text stuff though?
I'll check more properly this time for you pal-in-listing.

I am aware that it is very favored, so I always considered reading it...

Okay, it is good for reading in the free times. Liked it.

Last edited by exxp at 10:10 pm, Sep 22 2016

No, I didn't mean to criticize your point. I get what you mean. I think this ultimately comes down to semantics and how you take what the words mean. To me and many others, proof has to be observably...well...provable to become fact. Otherwise, It's opinion or conjecture or something of the sort, and while it can be disproved, it cannot be proved.

Last edited by Jelise at 2:27 pm, Sep 22 2016

I'm atheist, for the simple reason that I honestly don't believe in a higher mystical/spiritual power. As frustrated as I am with calculations (I'm definitely a humanities/social science person), I honestly do think Science is Cool™, and the creation of the universe stuff just sounds so much more amazing to me in scientific terms than in the whole, "And then God (or a set of gods) created the universe."

All personal opinion, of course.

I also personally find it daunting to describe my own religious background, since what seems to be often recognized is organized religions. But my mom is a huge Chinese traditionalist (and raised me as one too) in that she believes in the whole Jade Emperor in Heaven and all the cultural holidays. (I hesitate to call it "religious" since it feels very different from the usual religious holidays celebrated by the Abrahamic religions; I also dislike calling it "superstition" on a personal level.) These beliefs are actually so common in Chinese-speaking countries that no one has a name for it. Things like grave-sweeping days, paying respect to one's late ancestors, etc. are just taken for granted as normal.

So, yeah, religion and spirituality and whatnot is more complicated (of course) than the question, "Are you religious or not?"

For the record, I've never had much trouble with my atheism, amongst either my family or my friends. But I've met both terrible religious people (who keeps trying to convert me, despite my extremely polite refusals) as well as obnoxious atheist people (who are convinced that they know the ~secrets of the universe~ because Science™). Religion is just a discussion that no one can win.

Oh, and for religious manga, it just has to be Saint Young Men, obviously. (The Music of Marie is pretty cool too, if you're interested in fantasy religions/gods.)

Atheist here.
Been my whole life.
I'd especially welcome religious views to my question.
As of late I've come to accept agnosticism as a valid point of view to some degree, although I still think it's a bit weird to think that way, especially when those people aren't otherwise mystics or anything like that, but pretty much very rational in their actions and views, so why the special treatment to questions regarding higher beings? If you actually are the kind of a person that follows the same thought pattern it your life, then I can see why. Otherwise just seems like you're being politically pleasing. That was not the question though.

As for religions, I'd like to ask the question, how and why did you pick the religion you think is true and do they realize, that just by thinking that god is something as is described in their religion, they automatically think that other religions are in the wrong just by thinking that, even if not explicitly claimed. This is one of those you can't have and eat your cake things. That is not the only thing either, you could say that they're the same and one god in the end, but people actually aren't all monotheistic whatsoever and their views are completely polar to Semitic religions. Religious views are mutually exclusive. What is god is not a question like who is the best actor, because you're making a stand on reality of things, what powers govern the world, not values. It's still sensible to be agnostic at this point, because then you are not taking a stand on something, which you have 0-1% chance of being right in due to the multiple explanations of what a god is and what the world is like, maybe even less as there is no specific reason that something like a god exists as a being. Thus I don't believe.

You can take all the beliefs in the world and pick one who believes in their faith and put them in the same room, one for each religion. Now you ask them, what and who is god. Pay mind that it is not an opinion. It's supposed to be an actual explanation for the universe, a fact. The only way that the majority of these people aren't wrong is that each individual would exist in different dimensions that are governed by different gods and yet somehow they exist on the same plane at the same time. That to me seems a bit far-fetched and a way less likely option than that there just isn't one, that the universe is not humane in any shape or form, that the god is not a person and trying to use anthropomorphism to make it such is pointless. If you're trying to find some kind of a middle ground between all these views, then you are agnostic, which is fine, but is your philosophy in life actually anything like that or are you just trying to avoid the question? Those who are not agnostic are simply insolent and ignorant when they stand in that very room where they have a snowball's chance in hell to be right of actually having this all sorted out. An atheist wouldn't be, because s/he just follows the general secular logic s/he uses in everything in life. S/he knows why penicillin works and so on.

It's easy to be a christian in a christian culture for example. You don't need to think that the other views are as valid as yours and the probability for all is extremely low. You can shake hands with muslims and jews just fine as you can just assume that all prophets praise the same one god and so on, but what about pantheism or polytheism, what about all those beliefs that do not fit any of these religions? Why are they treated as insignificant ways of thinking? You might try to downplay your offense towards those views, but you are taking a stand already, even if you try not to and I don't mean offense as in someone getting butthurt, but as in, you being sanctimonious when you take a strong stance like what universe is like without even taking a second to think about it. The only reason you probably don't even get much views other than atheism vs christianity is that you are living in an echo chamber. I'd also like to once again clarify that even though I don't speak in a rough manner here, these are not my feelings, this is logic that you use in your every day life. Religious explanations for the world are not just opinions, they're supposed to be accurate facts, otherwise they're pointless and hold the same gravitas as what your birth tarot cards are.

If you can prove me wrong and say that your belief are something else than just a nice thought of what could be nice if it were true, like those tarot cards as they would be damn sweet if they actually worked, but first you have to prove every single other religious interpretation of the world wrong, especially those that contradict your base doctrine and say why yours is right, assuming you are not agnostic, which once again to me is just a way to pussy out if you don't lead a life of mysticism and actually think that the coke you put in the fridge is still there even when the door is closed. I too would think that it would be cool if demons and angels and djinn and whatnot were real, but there really isn't much to back it.

Universe is a beautiful place. It's complex and probably incomprehensible for a human brain to some degree. Using a half-assed explanation that even an ordinary man can easily question to simplify it is appalling. You don't owe me a thing, you owe the universe.

Last edited by Mamsmilk at 5:41 pm, Sep 22 2016

Last poll my choose is Laptop. It's have a good screen and I can do multiple task with it.

As for Religion...I choose 2nd choice cuz humans sometimes neglect when they're too busy with their life(including me*sniff*)

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Those heathens that picked atheist!

Heh... "heathens", outstanding, I haven't heard that particular term of disdain in ages

Shameless DC plug: I love Heathens, song of the year. Thx Mr. Ayer.
Why can´t be gods as cool as in comics?


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