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Post #685704 - Reply to (#685698) by Jelise
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10:05 am, Nov 13 2016
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Maybe it helps if I clarify that, when I said "if Trump wants any semblance of a unified country...", I was referring to Democrats and people terrified of his presidency not being able to accept the man now that he's our president-elect and the teleprompter he was reading off of kindly asked us to. I know the divisions in this country run far deeper than that, and indeed the problem isn't "one-dimensional", but in my first post, I felt the need to focus on the unprecedented (as of recent memory) amount of bigots he has emboldened because that has been a unique feature of his presidency.

The facts that the obstructionist republicans are fully in power and members of the Tea Party will hold cabinet positions, that Trump made campaign promises he will be unable to fulfill due to their unconstitutional nature (much to the ignorance/ apathy of supporters who liked them), that tens of thousands of Trump supporters stayed quiet for fear of being called racist or being scorned, thus depriving others in their life the chance to inform them of how unwise their decision was - these tell me that unity won't come as simple as Trump denouncing the hate of the loud part of his electorate that feels justified in acting out on such hate. But it would help.

Does it matter, in the grand scheme of things, that Trump supporters are also being targeted? Yes, I think so. But did I care for hearing about such a fact in response to how I mentioned that attacks based on racial and religious profiling have spiked in his name? Well, the best analogy I can provide is, while I agree overall that cancer is a terrible thing, I wouldn't appreciate someone telling me how I should have given some consideration to thyroid cancer if I just finished a presentation on breast cancer. If your post had been stand alone, I probably would've just nodded my head and scrolled on, since I wouldn't have (falsely, I now realize) interpreted it as an attempt at derailment.

Post #685712 - Reply to (#685646) by mikako17
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12:42 pm, Nov 13 2016
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Quote from mikako17
Do you think that high schoolers writing hate graffiti supporting Trump on school walls, or real people denied services because of the color of their skin isn't an attack? Even if you say these things have been done before or that there are always incidents like this, I don't think you can say that ...



Hold on. Now you are putting words in my mouth... I never said why I laughed and why I think the next four years will be exciting. You are just assuming, just like you are assuming things will be bad under Trumps presidency.

Racism is still the same as it always has been. I've been called a nigger and heard other black kids like myself being called the same when I use to live in a area dominated by whites. I've experienced racism pretty much all my life but I still believe in people. It's just now people are pointing it out more and saying it's Trumps fault.

What I believe right now is that nothing, you or the so called Trump supporters, believe will happen, won't happen. Yes, I would have preferred Hillary but we got Trump. If it does happen, and I don't like it, then I join the protest to get him out of office. What people are doing now is just making Hillary supporters look bad. They are literately burning the streets and destroying peoples personal belongings. How is anyone suppose to see what Trump supporters are doing when Hillary's supporters are in the limelight being stupid? Hillary supporters even fabricated a crime against a gay man done by supposed Trump supporters. Like seriously...?

Oh and the reason I laughed when he won. All those states that filled up red? All those white women and men voting for him. Showed a lot. People think America is this great place and that the BLM movement was just black people believing something that wasn't true. Black people and apologetic whites were the only ones thinking that racism still exist even though the evidence is in front of everyone.

Oh and a lot of black people are racist also but the excuse for that is because we went through a lot in our past. Can't fight hate with more hate. Just makes thing worst.

I will and always believe Bernie would have won, had the DNC not chosen Hillary instead. Hope so? How can I hope for something that can't happen now? That hope was already crushed. The polls still showed that Hillary got more votes but just not in each individual state. She still was more popular than Trump. A lot of young voters just refused to vote for her and voted third party instead. All those votes were votes that would have been for Bernie. Have you not heard them screaming that if you like Bernie vote for Jill? They kept saying she wanted what Bernie wanted. And a bunch of people wrote in Bernie's name as well.


Anyway, the US is in for some changes. What type of changes that will occur is the exciting part. bigrazz

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Post #685713 - Reply to (#685616) by Suxinn
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12:49 pm, Nov 13 2016
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I think Pence will take over if Trump is impeached. I think that's when everyone should probably be scared. I think people should seriously think about giving Trump a chance.

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Post #685714 - Reply to (#685678) by misc
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1:19 pm, Nov 13 2016
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Quote from misc
Any person laughing and eagerly waiting for something "interesting" to happen is clearly having enough privilege to do so.


Not necessarily. Someone who's lost everything and has no hope for their or anyone else's future could also feel this way. The requisite condition is to believe that "nothing matters", but there's more than one way to reach that conclusion.

Quote from misc
America is on its road to destruction, no matter how much effort is put into "healing" and "uniting" the nation.


Sadly, I think you're probably right about this. Every time I see a possibility for hope, our corrupt political system ruthlessly crushes it. I think nothing short of a complete overhaul of that system has any chance of stopping the downward spiral.

Quote from misc
That might have been a possibility to strive for before this election, but when it becomes apparent how divided people are, and how a toxic half of the population views the other with such disdain and hatred...


There's plenty of disdain and hatred to go around; it's not a unidirectional problem. Evil begets evil, and hatred begets hatred. The more one group of people rages against another, the more that other will feel the need to rage back, and the harder it becomes to heal those divisions. Lashing out at a group of people... any group of people... based on qualities they were born with may make one appear virtuous and righteous to those who share a prejudice against that group, but will accomplish nothing positive, as those are qualities that people cannot change even if they want to. Unless people can learn to judge each other based on their actions rather than their race, sex, or sexual orientation (and, contrary to what some people choose to believe, there is no race, sex, or sexual orientation that has not been widely discriminated against), the cycle of hatred will continue.

Post #685715 - Reply to (#685713) by takeva
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1:35 pm, Nov 13 2016
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Quote from takeva
I think Pence will take over if Trump is impeached. I think that's when everyone should probably be scared. I think people should seriously think about giving Trump a chance.

I think Pence will have the same amount of power whether he's president or not. Trump already hinted that he's leaving a lot of things up to Pence since he isn't a politician.

And I really don't see a difference between Trump's ideas and Pence's. Pence is scarier only because he knows how to actually enact them. They're equally horrific people, in my opinion, and I'd really rather prepare for the fallout rather than simply hope that he turns out to be better than I imagined. I'm a pessimist so that when things go bad, I won't be caught unaware, and if things go well, I can be pleasantly surprised.

(I can't believe I'm saying this, but... I wish Kasich had taken up Trump's offer of the VP position. Kasich is at least a moderate, and a populist who believes in state's rights first and foremost. Pence is... indescribably frightening.)

And while I can understand what folks are saying are a "cycle of hatred," I'm not going to blame folks for the ways in which they're expressing their (very valid) anger and pain. At the risk of falling into the No True Scotsman fallacy, I have to say that, from what I can tell, most Trump protestors are attempting explicitly peaceful protests. There are riots, sure, but they seem to be more the exception rather than the rule. (And as someone who has participated in a few protests herself, I've seen how non-protestors have taken advantage of protests to start things up and steal, so I'm liable to give these folks the benefit of the doubt.)

Also, as someone else has mentioned, the anger directed at Trump and his supporters is no way comparable to hate crimes, since the latter has centuries of oppressive history behind it. History that has since become embedded in modern society via insidious forms of structural racism. Racism which, if the past few days is any indication, is about to get a lot worse.

Post #685716 - Reply to (#685637) by misc
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1:35 pm, Nov 13 2016
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Quote from misc
Quote from takeva
If Bernie would have been the Dem nominee none of this would have happened. Blame the DNC for screwing you over. Like I said. Don't care.


Yeah sometimes I wish I could stay naive enough to believe everything I want to happen eventually will. To put it spiffy, good luck dreaming about your Jewish socialist winning people over in a country so full of bigotry and anti-semitism. And I say this as a Bernie supporter in the primaries. If there's any realisation to be made after the results, it's clear the average American lacks the ability to think logically and sensibly. All they need is an entertaining figurehead who can be a reliable source of media play every time they tune in on the telly, no matter how painfully obvious his incompetency and immorality.

It's not so much about what each voter can do to change the outcome of the election (that's the campaigners' job, and admittedly a poorly done one this time too). It's more about how each voter, on a personal basis, views the seriousness of the situation before making insensitive remarks directly towards the lives of others in their community. Regardless of your ethnicity and gender, what you have spewed out shows that you have no empathy and doesn't like to act against your ideology even when the consequence will affect not only yourself but also others. It's the attitude that sticks out like a sore thumb amid all this chaos and confusion.

The sad part is you're not the only one thinking along that line, and the thousands of democrats that also acted upon their "beliefs" weren't so lucky to live in a sure-to-be blue state like you do. You're just a small part of what's wrong with this country.


LOL all I have to say to this is. Obama manage to win twice in this a country full of bigotry and anti-semitism.

I stick to what I believe in. I didn't like Hillary or Trump so I chose not to vote. I didn't want to be apart of this farce of an election. At least I didn't vote third party or Harambre to waste a vote. I thought the US was about people rights. Isn't it my right to just not care anymore? The DNC will now look at what people actually want instead of what they thought was best. This country is what made me think this way. Our government has turned into a joke.

And the lives of others? Please tell me who's lives will be ruined? He wants to build a wall (and make Mexico pay for it roll eyes ) and deport ALL illegal immigrants oh but he wants to save money and get America out it's debt. roll eyes

The LGBT community is getting upset for no reason as he never said he'll hunt them down and convert them. I don't get why they think their lives will be ruined? If I missed something please direct me to a good source.

Muslims? lol they have always had a hard time because of stupid people. Will it get worst? Who knows. But this will hopefully make people more aware of the stereotype they have been dealing with.

Trump will barely be able to keep any of his promises. It's probably going to take him at least 4 years to do any of the basic stuff he talked about. He probably will be focusing more on our economy more than anything. Now if he'll f*** it up worst than it already is, that'll be a problem. dead

Yes, I'm making assumptions but so is everyone else.

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Post #685717 - Reply to (#685716) by takeva
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1:49 pm, Nov 13 2016
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Quote from takeva
The LGBT community is getting upset for no reason as he never said he'll hunt them down and convert them. I don't get why they think their lives will be ruined? If I missed something please direct me to a good source.

Pence was the one who said that. And since everyone believes Pence will be the real policy-maker in Trump's presidency... Well.

Quote from takeva
At least I didn't vote third party or Harambre to waste a vote.

As someone who voted third party (I'm from California which has always been solidly blue, so no risk there of ruining anything), I did so because I was fighting to get the 5% popular vote needed to 1) get the Green Party on all state ballots automatically, 2) get funding from the government (~$8-10 million) for future campaigns, and 3) give allowance to participate in all future presidential debates. In other words, a third party vote was a vote for an end to a two-party system (which keeps giving us terrible choices, like this election: evil and eviler). Any third party inclusion in the mainstream would've helped pull the nation back from falling over the cliff of political extremism (see: Trump/Pence) I think. And the Libertarians (as much as I'm wary of them) almost made it too! They probably would've if the specter of Trump wasn't making everyone afraid of not voting for Clinton.

Quote from takeva
Yes, I'm making assumptions but so is everyone else.

A lot of these assumptions are based on Trump's own words and former actions, while yours seem more based on a faint hope of looking at the bright side. Not saying that you can't be right, but that I can understand the others' anxieties more.

Quote from takeva
Please tell me who's lives will be ruined? He wants to build a wall (and make Mexico pay for it roll eyes ) and deport ALL illegal immigrants oh but he wants to save money and get America out it's debt.

I prefer calling them "undocumented." Less dehumanizing. And, yes, everyone deserves basic human rights and decency. (This is why I voted against Clinton too--I knew she would've been OK as a president domestically, but her foreign policy was looking like it might echo Obama's, which is: as long as our citizens are all right, no one else matters, and we can just keep our drone strikes going and allow our soldiers to run roughshod over other people's countries. A viewpoint I definitely don't agree with.) And I doubt Trump knows how to save the economy, considering how many of his businesses have gone bankrupt.

Post #685718 - Reply to (#685715) by Suxinn
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1:55 pm, Nov 13 2016
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Quote from Suxinn
I think Pence will have the same amount of power whether he's president or not. Trump already hinted that he's leaving a lot of things up to Pence since he isn't a politician.

And I really don't see a difference between Trump's ideas and Pence's. Pence is scarier only because he knows how to actua ...


See you, you are someone I can agree with. I actually get what you are actually trying to tell me.

There have been a good amount of peaceful protests and the media does over-exaggerate crap. I should have remembered this. And I should have remembered the protest done in Baltimore recently with people using it as a chance to destroy and steal from their own innocent people.

Ah, but when did I say the anger directed at Trump and his supporters are comparable or worst than past and present hate crimes? Unless you were mentioning something someone else said? All I said was we shouldn't fight hate with hate.

Yes, it might get worse and people will finally see and hopefully people of different color can come together. Not just BLM people. It should really be all lives matter. Muslims pretty much face the same stereotype and discrimination as black people.

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Post #685719 - Reply to (#685718) by takeva
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2:07 pm, Nov 13 2016
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Quote from takeva
Ah, but when did I say the anger directed at Trump and his supporters are comparable or worst than past and present hate crimes? Unless you were mentioning something someone else said? All I said was we shouldn't fight hate with hate.

Yes, that bit was directed at someone else. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Quote from takeva
It should really be all lives matter. Muslims pretty much face the same stereotype and discrimination as black people.

I don't agree with using that sentiment, since it's been co-opted so much by conservative whites as to downplay antiblack racism. I do agree that Muslims face terrible discrimination, though, but Islamophobia is a whole different beast than antiblackness. It's rooted in partial racism (anti-Arab sentiment), but the difficult bit is that not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are Arabs. They're just so often conflated as the same that it becomes an issue.

We definitely should have a rallying call for fighting against Islamophobia, though. But I think making it similar to BLM will ultimately end up obscuring the issue more than helping it. Muslims face their own unique form of discrimination, and so any protests should reflect that, I think.

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2:15 pm, Nov 13 2016
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a little conservatism in this overly modern world would be amazing

Post #685721 - Reply to (#685717) by Suxinn
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2:18 pm, Nov 13 2016
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Quote from Suxinn
Pence was the one who said that. And since everyone believes Pence will be the real policy-maker in Trump's presidency... Well.

Quote from takeva
At least I didn't vote third party or Harambre to waste a vote.

As someone who voted third party (I'm from California which has always been solidly blue, so no risk there ...


Thank you for the link. I'm also going to be a bit optimistic and believe that not all republicans will agree with him on. Because lets be real, they will still need the LGBT communities votes. Which I don't understand why any one of them would vote for Trump if he had Pence. Some of the LGBT people on twitter were for him (a couple that I follow), so that's why I was a little confused.

I am being more optimistic which is weird because I'm usually negative about a lot of things.

And now I am seriously regretting that I didn't vote. I should have voted third party if I knew what it meant. >_<

So sick of the this 2-party system we have now.

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Post #685722
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2:26 pm, Nov 13 2016
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Quote from takeva
Racism is still the same as it always has been. I've been called a nigger and heard other black kids like myself being called the same when I use to live in a area dominated by whites. I've experienced racism pretty much all my life but I still believe in people. It's just now people are pointing it out more and saying it's Trumps fault.



My avatar and signature pretty much sum it all up

How could you not comprehend that racism is only going to escalate after this election? Yes racism has always been on the back burner of this country, but never as overt as it has been on the last few days. The difference now is that racists are pretty much validated at this point, PRECISELY because Trump was elected. People don't "point out" that racism is Trump's fault, it's the validation to BE racist his victory brings that scares and angers intellectual people.

Quote from takeva
Obama manage to win twice in this a country full of bigotry and anti-semitism.


Lol and you honestly believe he managed to win because people are so smart and could see how effectively he could run the country, and so they ignored the fact that he's black and a democrat? Please, if he and his family weren't so likeable and entertaining to watch on the telly every time a hillbilly tunes in, it would have taken much longer before a democrat took office again. People don't vote with logic and what's right; it's emotion that evokes the urge to complete the task. Trump might have been a disgrace to the human race, but "crooked Hilary" will still lose to him anyway even if she's the most competent person for the position they're both vying for, simply because she's not "likeable" and "charismatic" enough. Oh and there's misogyny too, but that's something for another time. What I'm saying is no matter what logic tells voters, at the end of the day it's the unpopular candidate that will not win in triumph. They don't care who is better for the greater good, they want some public figure that fits what they like best.

Your Bernie does not stand a chance, not only because of who he essentially is, but also when the media is taken into account. They succeeded in normalising Trump and antagonising the best person for the job. What makes you think the Bern will be left intact amid such a vile population? He might have garnered more votes from those who didn't cast theirs this time, but will probably lose some as well in the process.

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Post #685724 - Reply to (#685590) by silvarion
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3:03 pm, Nov 13 2016
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You've... never heard of Donald Trump? Even if you're not from the US, I'm having a little difficulty believing that.

Post #685726
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4:14 pm, Nov 13 2016
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I'm liberal, I didn't vote, but if I did it would have been trump because I'm from wisconsin, If I was in a safe state (as in no chance in hell of flipping one way or the other) I would have voted Jill.

The for not hillary is simple.

1) She is 100% for the tpp and is only against it because holy crap that would be unpopular
2) She is in favor of literally every trade deal that ever got placed in front of her.
3) When it comes to anything you can take a principled stance on, such as gay marriage, she only takes the 'this is a good thing' once its clear that's what the majority think, and even then, she is almost last to do it.
4) Through the leaks we learned that she admits to donors 'I have a public position, and a private position' which means everything she says should be taken as a lie.
5) Was advocating a no fly zone in syria which our own military says would cause war with russia, no way around it. So she at best is provoking a cold war, and worst provoking what would turn into world war 3.

Trump on the other had

1) Wants to spend on infrastructure at home rather than war
2) At least publicly against trade deals
3) Anti war (however a bigger piece of crap in other regards to this)
4) Wants to work with russia on dealing with isis opposed to against
5) At least in his current record, is cleaner than hillary

Bother candidates are pieces of crap, but trump is at least the lesser of the two. Honestly, any of the horrible things he could do, like the national debt stuff, I don't think he would be able to do anything about.

Also, as a side note, look at the polls on what muslims believe, its majority of them are simply not compatible with western ideology, and while i'm not for a 100% ban, I sure as hell don't want a situation like europe were we let everyone in even if they are majority economic migrants. As for illegal immigrants, they are illegal immigrants. As a side note, do note how many lawsuits are dropped in the coming days/weeks, many if not most of them were just so that news got out 'he did X' as a narrative.

As bad as he could be, if he focusses on home rather then be world police, he could be a hell of alot better then almost any other modern president.

Oh, on a side note, Im personally a 'single issue voter', I want money out of politics, as it is the one thing that makes every single person in office the same, no one really had ideals, they have points a donor wants. If this could happen I would vote for anyone who could put it in place.

Post #685735 - Reply to (#685677) by Calamansi
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9:13 pm, Nov 13 2016
Posts: 105


It may not be an hyperbole at all, a video that talked about that mentioned some opinion polls of Trump supporters, including a lot still believing Obama wasn't american amongst other deplorable things.

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