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Post #685678
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8:43 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 66


Any person laughing and eagerly waiting for something "interesting" to happen is clearly having enough privilege to do so, and it's honestly just a waste of time trying to reason with such scum who cannot and will not look outside of their unaffected bubble to see how others are suffering

And if they're also ignorant and naive enough to say that none of the massive amounts of evidence of white people's hate and racism that have surged right after the results actually holds accountability, and that everyone needs to chill because "nothing has happened yet" (even though some totally has), well the best I could say to them is: good luck trying to survive in this world because logic and common sense clearly haven't taken you very far, so much so that you go out of your way to deny what's really happening and cannot perceive what's obviously coming ahead

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Post #685681 - Reply to (#685678) by misc
Member

9:35 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 354


mhm, people whom I know who have said they find it exciting are exactly in a position of privilege: white and male

I don't know anyone else in real life who feel this excitement.

Post #685682 - Reply to (#685677) by Calamansi
Member

9:38 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 22


First, you're assuming a final vote for Trump = not having supported Bernie at all, and that's wrong. Thing is that if you are from a different party or independent, you can't vote in another party's nominations. Some Republicans even switched party allegiances to vote Sanders in the primary, but just because others didn't doesn't mean that there wasn't support from them. In fact, I previously posted this reply:

Quote
To this, all I have to say is that I live in Texas, in a district so rural that the nearest city of more than 100 thousand people is 3 hours away by drive. If we were to talk about major city, it's 8 hours or more depending on how you travel. My nearest town only has 8 thousand people. That being said, there were Bernie support signs EVERYWHERE there. He's the only candidate that promised them anything BESIDES Trump, and Trump seemed so unrealistic that Bernie's socialism seemed better placed. Bernie's promises seemed more possible.


Is it completely anecdotal? Yes, and I'm not going to argue against that, but if a rural Texas town has Bernie supporters, what does that say about the rest of the United States especially those swing states Hillary was banking on and lost? So when Bernie didn't get the nomination, it was between choosing a person who had sexist, racist, and xenophobic rhetoric but still put a significant emphasis on their concerns, or someone who embodied everything they hated (baring that her policies were actually more beneficial to them, but let's not get into that). That's assuming they even voted as a lot of Bernie supports chose apathy over voting.

I never said it was as severe or common as the attacks on minorities. I never said it's equivalent to the sexism, racism, xenophobia ect. that the more violent Trump supporters are exhibiting. You made that connection yourself. What I said is that violence has happened to Trump supporters, and it's not as simple as Hillary supporters are making it seem. Besides, this painting of all Trump supporters as violent and regressive doesn't HELP. It makes it an us versus them thing. It just pushes them further from whatever you would want them to do and makes them more adamant that they are correct instead of wanting to learn your point of view.

Post #685684
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10:43 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 66


America is on its road to destruction, no matter how much effort is put into "healing" and "uniting" the nation. That might have been a possibility to strive for before this election, but when it becomes apparent how divided people are, and how a toxic half of the population views the other with such disdain and hatred, there's no turning back to a "great" united nation that Trump's rally ironically calls for. From here on out, acts of violence and abuse will be seen as the go-to in mass rallying because it actually works. Asking the attacked to not be "sore losers" and work together with their abusers? Yeah we're not the dumb sheep that you are

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Post #685685 - Reply to (#685682) by Jelise
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11:05 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 143


Quote from Jelise
First, you're assuming a final vote for Trump = not having supported Bernie at all, and that's wrong.


No I'm not...? I know a lot of Bernie Bros threatened to vote for Trump, and some either fulfilled their promise or voted third party or stayed home. My point was that a final vote for Trump = a vote for a bigot supported by the KKK. And as I made in a previous post, the "anti-establishment" motivation isn't an excuse, he chose Mike Pence as his running mate, and a slew of odious, establishment-entrenched Republicans are in the running for his cabinet positions. So much for draining out the muck of Washington's swamp, he only did so to find the gnarliest of the alligators and hand pick them for the shady zoo our country's about to become.

When I expressed my consternation over the support Trump had over Sanders, I was referring to the whole election process, specifically the primaries. Trump drew far more people to the polls during the primaries than Sanders. Clinton won the majority of the Democratic vote in swing states of Florida and Ohio, and also won Pennsylvania, Arizona, and the Carolinas, states that people hoped would turn/ stay blue. In all of the states I've mentioned, Trump managed to entice more people to vote for him during the primaries than Sanders, even though he was running against more than 3x the amount of candidates in his own party.

Quote from Jelise
Is it completely anecdotal? Yes, and I'm not going to argue against that, but if a rural Texas town has Bernie supporters, what does that say about the rest of the United States especially those swing states Hillary was banking on and lost?


It's futile to linger on what-ifs, but there are multiple facts that go against your argument. I also live in Texas. We talked a lot about the election in my speech class, and I had to sit through an 8 min+ presentation by a student who honestly thought Bernie Sanders would be the world's next Stalin. As he walked through the rows to sit back down, people whispered what a great job he did.

Many working class people in America really, really don't like socialism, and are suspicious of the "democratic socialism" Sanders espoused. A single election alone would not have been enough time to change their views on a whole political ideology.

And, well, you can see for yourself the kinds of numbers Sanders was able to bring to the polls in those oh-so-crucial swing states compared to Trump from the onset.

Quote from Jelise
So when Bernie didn't get the nomination, it was between choosing a person who had sexist, racist, and xenophobic rhetoric but still put a significant emphasis on their concerns, or someone who embodied everything they hated (baring that her policies were actually more beneficial to them, but let's not get into that).


Please, let's get into that. It's another reason for my suspicions that, in the end, those who cast their ballot for Trump did so because they had hate in their hearts that resonated with his, a fear that the America concerned with protecting their social privilege was on the decline. Not all of them, but a considerable number, particularly the ones who, I feel I must reiterate, flocked to vote for Trump in numbers far exceeding Bernie's supporters during the primaries.

Quote from Jelise
What I said is that violence has happened to Trump supporters, and it's not as simple as Hillary supporters are making it seem. Besides, this painting of all Trump supporters as violent and regressive doesn't HELP.


Again, I was referring to the Deplorables as the one who made such attacks who, as I mentioned in my original post, "constituted a considerable portion of his vote". I don't condone violence unless it's in self-defense, and I agree that launching assaults on people who admit they voted for Trump doesn't help. Please don't use me as your effigy for venting out your frustrations with Clinton supporters who can't muster the compassion or energy to look kindly upon people who voted for a man that poses as a serious threat to the civil rights of themselves or their loved ones.

*EDIT: messed up my links. Should work now.


Last edited by Calamansi at 11:45 pm, Nov 12 2016

Post #685686 - Reply to (#685684) by misc
Member

11:08 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 22


I'm being the sheep when all you're replying with is tried and true rhetoric that's been CONSTANTLY said during the past 4 election cycles if not longer than that. I'm the sheep for realizing there's more to the problem and trying to get people to realize that and not constantly screaming at a computer screen when it accomplishes nothing. I'm the sheep when I try to get people to be proactive instead of reactive. You go on living in your small little world where everything fits into a nice little bubble. I'll continue out here in reality where everything doesn't fit nicely into stereotypes and reaction accomplishes nothing but dividing further and not getting the results you want.

Quote from Calamansi
No I'm not...? I know a lot of Bernie Bros threatened to vote for Trump, and some either fulfilled their promise or voted third party or stayed home. My point was that a final vote for Trump = a vote for a bigot supported by the KKK. And as I made in a previous post, the "anti-establishment&qu ...


I actually agree with you on a lot of what you're saying in actuality. It's why I chose to vote Hillary in the first place instead of sticking with Jill Stein (who I supported from the get go, so it was more me choosing Bernie over her during the primaries). This election showcased that America, especially middle America, still has a lot of bigotry supported by various inadequacies, such as lowering quality of education and lack of diversity, as well as white supremacy and sexism. My only problem is that there's a much larger picture to why things happened the way they did, and plenty of people who espouse the same reactions that you did in your first post, don't seem to realize this.

Last edited by Jelise at 11:29 pm, Nov 12 2016

Post #685688 - Reply to (#685686) by Jelise
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11:33 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 143


Quote from Jelise
You go on living in your small little world where everything fits into a nice little bubble. I'll continue out here in reality where everything doesn't fit nicely into stereotypes and reaction accomplishes nothing but dividing further and not getting the results you want.


You say that, and yet you crammed me into your convenient stereotype of people who protest the actions of Trump supporters. You yourself said:

Quote from Jelise
What I said is that violence has happened to Trump supporters, and it's not as simple as Hillary supporters are making it seem. Besides, this painting of all Trump supporters as violent and regressive doesn't HELP.


Well, I'm a Hillary supporter and I explicitly made the concession that the Deplorables made up a considerable portion (which doesn't mean all) of his vote, and clarified such a concession in my response to you.

Give me a break. You remind me of that crowd that screams "blue lives matter" whenever someone brings up the issue of police brutality in America. You responding to my post about the fears Trump's election has stoked in marginalized people (which you yourself admitted are more common and serious than whatever Trump supporters are facing) by mentioning that some of your Trump-supporting friends have also felt uncomfortable recently really doesn't help and is the same kind of derailing rhetoric disadvantaged people have constantly had to deal with.

Post #685689 - Reply to (#685688) by Calamansi
Member

11:40 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 22


I'm being the sheep when all you're replying with is tried and true rhetoric that's been CONSTANTLY said during the past 4 election cycles if not longer than that. I'm the sheep for realizing there's more to the problem and trying to get people to realize that and not constantly screaming at a computer screen when it accomplishes nothing. I'm the sheep when I try to get people to be proactive instead of reactive. You go on living in your small little world where everything fits into a nice little bubble. I'll continue out here in reality where everything doesn't fit nicely into stereotypes and reaction accomplishes nothing but dividing further and not getting the results you want.

Quote from Calamansi
No I'm not...? I know a lot of Bernie Bros threatened to vote for Trump, and some either fulfilled their promise or voted third party or stayed home. My point was that a final vote for Trump = a vote for a bigot supported by the KKK. And as I made in a previous post, the "anti-establishment&qu ...



I actually agree with you on a lot of what you're saying in actuality. It's why I chose to vote Hillary in the first place instead of sticking with Jill Stein (who I supported from the get go, so it was more me choosing Bernie over her during the primaries). This election showcased that America, especially middle America, still has a lot of bigotry supported by various inadequacies, such as lowering quality of education and lack of diversity, as well as white supremacy and sexism. My only problem is that there's a much larger picture to why things happened the way they did, and plenty of people who espouse the same reactions that you did in your first post, don't seem to realize this.

Last edited by Jelise at 12:17 am, Nov 13 2016

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11:48 pm, Nov 12 2016
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Post #685692
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11:49 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 66


Lol leave me out of this, my previous post had nothing to do with the feud between you two. I was addressing the popular suggestion to give Trump a chance and to unite the abused and abusers that the centre likes to shove down everyone's throat. Heck I wasn't even paying attention to any of your comments and then suddenly my name flashed up and it turned out I was replied to by someone I never initiated an argument? That's gotta be new for me lol


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Post #685693 - Reply to (#685692) by misc
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11:52 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 22


Quote from misc
Lol leave me out of this, my previous post had nothing to do with the feud between you two. I was addressing the popular suggestion to give Trump a chance and to unite the abused and abusers that the centre likes to shove down everyone's throat. Heck I wasn't even paying attention to any of your com ...


I'm sorry for adding you into it. I shouldn't have reacted the way I did. It just came off you meant to reply to me. I don't think we should give Trump a chance because that could me disaster. That's why I keep telling people who disagree with him to protest everything they disagree with. To not be apathetic and let Republicans win anything if they can.

Post #685694 - Reply to (#685689) by Jelise
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11:54 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 143


Quote from Jelise
Ah, so you're going to be that kind of person. Right. A: If you knew how to pay attention, you would know that part of the reply had nothing to do with you. It had to misc, who the reply was specifically to, who called me a sheep simply because I didn't agree with how some people react to things. ...


And I didn't see edited version of your post, which included my quote, until after I already posted my response.

It grated me the wrong way when you brought up stereotyping, when you used the same tactic as some sort of excuse to reprimand people (including me) concerned about the things Trump's most violent supporters are doing.

Quote from Jelise
B: I'm one of those disadvantaged people being both LGBT and disabled, but that wouldn't matter to you now would it?


Of course it does. :/ You had my sympathy as soon as you mentioned you voted for Clinton. Now we're all going to suffer together.

Post #685695
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11:55 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 66


This is when livejournal comment threads come in handy lol

Last edited by misc at 12:08 am, Nov 13 2016

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Post #685696
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11:57 pm, Nov 12 2016
Posts: 66


Every major change in history began with a revolution. Democrats and liberals have always played out the role of the nice and civil one while republicans continue to tread onto everyone's faces like the aggressive bigots that they are, and look where that led to. We're supposed to be "above" aggression and anger, but at what cost? I'm not willing to lose my freedom if it's only at the expense for being the nice guy.

Last edited by misc at 12:07 am, Nov 13 2016

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Post #685698 - Reply to (#685694) by Calamansi
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12:19 am, Nov 13 2016
Posts: 22


I don't know where you got the reprimanding part from. It was never meant to be reprimanding. It was meant more to show that the problem isn't one dimensional, and it's not going to be solved by making it one dimensional. I get now that you don't see it that way, but a lot of people do.

I guess this is honestly just me more misunderstanding where you were coming from with everything more than anything. I'm sorry.

Last edited by Jelise at 12:27 am, Nov 13 2016

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